fish issue after water change

[docforestal]

Hello
I am thinking the issue is stress
tank: 55 gallon up 3 months - do 20 gallon water change q 2 weeks (keeping phosphates and nitrates down -hair algae issue - now resovling) - no fuge - to be starting a chaeto reactor in near future
HOB skimmer and filter for detrtus - good surface agitation
pre water change
temp: 77 (kept 77-78)
s.g. 1.025
pH 8.0 - has been stable
Nitrates: runnin 10-20 depending on water change - hob skimmer not dialing in after cleaning and not pulling as much lately
no water change last week as nitrates were still 12; today on recheck 26 - in retrospect had pulled filter pads an hour prior and powdered the tank a little- not sure if significant)
alk and calcium running same as salt mix other than a little loss of alk due to coralline

all fish (mottled filefish, 2 fire gobies, 1 citron and 1 clown goby, 3 banghai cardinals, 1 solarensis wrasse and 1 lemonpeel angel) are present almost 3 months, lemon peel angel 1 month - no quarantine but from a site that does (i planned to quarantine and had issues so did not but i will be all future fish)
all fish feeding well on mixed meats/pellet and nori up to a water change;
did a 30% slow water change with matched water parameters , same sg 1.025, ph 8, temp just 2 degrees cooler at 75 and added water over an hour so slow, no water movement for 20 minutes
only diffrence this water change was i left the lights on (led's) to help clean up some hair algae
all fish swimming fine, lemon peel angel on side on the bottom, not gasping, no lesions
wrongly i touched it gently to see if it was ok and look for lesions and i think i further stress it, it swam trying to bury itself under a rock in the sand; shortly after hermits started to get on it, i picked it up and put in quarantine tank and either in shock or dead

I would like to attempt to learn how to prevent further issues in the future:
other than the no quarantining issue
should i have had lights off on water change - even if parameters matched - too large volume (why i did it slow )
? disease that popped up all of a sudden with stress of water change? truly was acting fine right before and good inspection of fish shows no spots/growths, damage, no bloating
worth necropsy? - i do not know fish anatomy but am familiar with human/have done comparative with animals, and have done fish dissections before - not sure if i would see anything worth looking for ?

sorry for word salad - a bit upset over this guy
thanks for any help

 

[Sharkbait19]

Death after a water change is often indicative of some toxin being introduced, though you would see more being affected by that.
Alternatively, it could have gotten spooked and hit itself hard on a rock/the glass and injured itself.

 

[docforestal]

thanks @Sharkbait19 - i see no other issues with other fish/inverts -
your thought of spooking and it hitting the glass makes me wonder, i moved a couple of rocks and wonder if i whacked him by accident

 

[MnFish1]

Death after a water change is often indicative of some toxin being introduced, though you would see more being affected by that.
Alternatively, it could have gotten spooked and hit itself hard on a rock/the glass and injured itself.

Or a change in alkalinity, etc - thats not measured - pH, etc etc.

 

[docforestal]

agreed, although the salt mix (i had used some 3 days prior and measured alk - mix 9.1 - tank 8.8 this am
ph this am the same in both (was testing new hanna kit vs. api

 

[Sharkbait19]

Keep an eye on fish and corals for any changes. If everything else is fine, I’d assume it was an injury.

 

[JC1977]

Keep in mind those are large water changes you’re doing every two weeks like almost 50%. Your tank is brand new and still getting established. I appreciate trying to stay on top of phosphate and nitrate but you could be throwing off the balance of your tank doing being so new with those large water changes. Those fish are all fairly small and don’t produce a ton of waste and I’m surprised your nitrates are even that high. Anyhow just my thoughts.

 

[docforestal]

i will be thanks, no corals at this time tho

 

[docforestal]

thanks @JC1977
fish are decent size and i tend to over feed a little to make sure they are fed well; i agree tho it is early - i am trying to avoid messing up and might be over aggressive

 

[Weeb]

The death of a large amount of algae can release toxins into the water. Different fishes have different levels of tolerance to these toxins.

Your tank is new and probably needs more time to settle down.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello
I am thinking the issue is stress
tank: 55 gallon up 3 months - do 20 gallon water change q 2 weeks (keeping phosphates and nitrates down -hair algae issue - now resovling) - no fuge - to be starting a chaeto reactor in near future
HOB skimmer and filter for detrtus - good surface agitation
pre water change
temp: 77 (kept 77-78)
s.g. 1.025
pH 8.0 - has been stable
Nitrates: runnin 10-20 depending on water change - hob skimmer not dialing in after cleaning and not pulling as much lately
no water change last week as nitrates were still 12; today on recheck 26 - in retrospect had pulled filter pads an hour prior and powdered the tank a little- not sure if significant)
alk and calcium running same as salt mix other than a little loss of alk due to coralline

all fish (mottled filefish, 2 fire gobies, 1 citron and 1 clown goby, 3 banghai cardinals, 1 solarensis wrasse and 1 lemonpeel angel) are present almost 3 months, lemon peel angel 1 month - no quarantine but from a site that does (i planned to quarantine and had issues so did not but i will be all future fish)
all fish feeding well on mixed meats/pellet and nori up to a water change;
did a 30% slow water change with matched water parameters , same sg 1.025, ph 8, temp just 2 degrees cooler at 75 and added water over an hour so slow, no water movement for 20 minutes
only diffrence this water change was i left the lights on (led's) to help clean up some hair algae
all fish swimming fine, lemon peel angel on side on the bottom, not gasping, no lesions
wrongly i touched it gently to see if it was ok and look for lesions and i think i further stress it, it swam trying to bury itself under a rock in the sand; shortly after hermits started to get on it, i picked it up and put in quarantine tank and either in shock or dead

I would like to attempt to learn how to prevent further issues in the future:
other than the no quarantining issue
should i have had lights off on water change - even if parameters matched - too large volume (why i did it slow )
? disease that popped up all of a sudden with stress of water change? truly was acting fine right before and good inspection of fish shows no spots/growths, damage, no bloating
worth necropsy? - i do not know fish anatomy but am familiar with human/have done comparative with animals, and have done fish dissections before - not sure if i would see anything worth looking for ?

sorry for word salad - a bit upset over this guy
thanks for any help

Is there a reason for amount of water changes?
In addition, I dont see a toxin being introduced from added water nor spooking as you would have seen facial damage. My suspect is Osmotic shock from variances in water based on amount with difference in PH, temp (you can go warmer but not cooler) or even salinity ( you can drop fast but not increase).
When the fish died, was its mouth open?
Any hemorrhaging or bleeding on body?

Lights do not need to be off (only introduction)

As for algae, is tank by chance at or near a window?
Are you using RODI or tap water from faucet ?

 

[docforestal]

using ro /di, as above ph, salinity in water was same, just temp was cooler
water changes are to be aggressive with nitrates and phosphates from the beginning to keep water levels very good - and i agree with above prob. over aggressive for a young tank - just trying to have a tank with good parameters for when i into corals and don't want a phosphate or nitrate sink.
trying to keep nitrates 10-15 and phosphates < 1 if possible but that maybe should be a longer term goal and not too concerning right now
i may have bumped with a rock or just stressed it heavily - i suspect when it tryed to bury itself it may have suffocated ? but not the cause
internal injury from a head blow may not cause outward signs but im no expert
no signs of injury, no gasping, after death mouth was open
algae is just normal hair algae outbreak likely due to cycling with some lights on as i liked to look at it

 

[MnFish1]

agreed, although the salt mix (i had used some 3 days prior and measured alk - mix 9.1 - tank 8.8 this am
ph this am the same in both (was testing new hanna kit vs. api

IMHO that not a significant change

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello
I am thinking the issue is stress
tank: 55 gallon up 3 months - do 20 gallon water change q 2 weeks (keeping phosphates and nitrates down -hair algae issue - now resovling) - no fuge - to be starting a chaeto reactor in near future
HOB skimmer and filter for detrtus - good surface agitation
pre water change
temp: 77 (kept 77-78)
s.g. 1.025
pH 8.0 - has been stable
Nitrates: runnin 10-20 depending on water change - hob skimmer not dialing in after cleaning and not pulling as much lately
no water change last week as nitrates were still 12; today on recheck 26 - in retrospect had pulled filter pads an hour prior and powdered the tank a little- not sure if significant)
alk and calcium running same as salt mix other than a little loss of alk due to coralline

all fish (mottled filefish, 2 fire gobies, 1 citron and 1 clown goby, 3 banghai cardinals, 1 solarensis wrasse and 1 lemonpeel angel) are present almost 3 months, lemon peel angel 1 month - no quarantine but from a site that does (i planned to quarantine and had issues so did not but i will be all future fish)
all fish feeding well on mixed meats/pellet and nori up to a water change;
did a 30% slow water change with matched water parameters , same sg 1.025, ph 8, temp just 2 degrees cooler at 75 and added water over an hour so slow, no water movement for 20 minutes
only diffrence this water change was i left the lights on (led's) to help clean up some hair algae
all fish swimming fine, lemon peel angel on side on the bottom, not gasping, no lesions
wrongly i touched it gently to see if it was ok and look for lesions and i think i further stress it, it swam trying to bury itself under a rock in the sand; shortly after hermits started to get on it, i picked it up and put in quarantine tank and either in shock or dead

I would like to attempt to learn how to prevent further issues in the future:
other than the no quarantining issue
should i have had lights off on water change - even if parameters matched - too large volume (why i did it slow )
? disease that popped up all of a sudden with stress of water change? truly was acting fine right before and good inspection of fish shows no spots/growths, damage, no bloating
worth necropsy? - i do not know fish anatomy but am familiar with human/have done comparative with animals, and have done fish dissections before - not sure if i would see anything worth looking for ?

sorry for word salad - a bit upset over this guy
thanks for any help

IMO - any toxins or stress from a water change is not going to kill just one fish and leave the others fine.

If the other fish are all symptom free I think you need to look at the lemonpeel itself.

Lemon peels can be pretty delicate and tough to adapt to captivity.

Jay

 

[docforestal]

Thanks Jay, I appreciate it. although eating well, i think the stress was at least a big part of the issue.