Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)

[mike550]

QT for Blenny and Yellow Tang - 2Qs

Newbie question, and perhaps overthinking this. I would like to add a starry blenny and a yellow tang. But it looks like each does better with a different copper (Copper Power vs Cupramine). So am I safer by running QT on each sequentially?

Second Q. What are the benefits of buying a captive-bred vs wild yellow tang? Im seeing both on Liveaquaria.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Shooter6]

Check cloroquine phosphate for each, or run hyposalinity as both can handle hypo

 

[Atlantis_Reef]

okay it is probably been said but why is the hippo a 5 in CP but not any of the other tangs at ll, i was expecting achillies and the like then i could of had the thinking of low slime coat etc etc.. anyone able to shed light onto this please

 

[Dmb092182]

The tables are no longer showing up. This resource is so valuable.

 

[revhtree]

The tables are no longer showing up. This resource is so valuable.

We had some options down due to a software update over the weekend. The articles are going back up now! Thanks!

 

[joe0813]

does someone have Humblefish post about QT procedures with Copper power? I cant remember if its 14 days or 30. I put a sea hare in my tank a few weeks ago and now I have ich...... AGAIN!!

 

[Big G]

14 days at full therapeutic and then transfer to a fresh, sterile QT for 15 days of observation. Or just leave the fish in for the full 30 days and done.

 

[wsanley]

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)​

The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be absolute in most cases. All fish are individuals and can and will react differently than the norm to certain medications or situations. Just because most tangs do well in copper doesn’t mean that every tang will do well. The chart is numbered in levels of tolerance/ease with each method according to the general experience of several knowledgeable people including myself, @4FordFamily, @Humblefish, @eatbreakfast, @evolved and @Brew12. I thank each of them for their input and help in putting this whole thing together. You will also find helpful advice and tips for QT’ing many of the fish in this chart that are deemed more difficult.

Acronyms used: TTM = Tank Transfer Method CP = Chloroquine Phosphate

View attachment 458751 View attachment 458752 View attachment 458753

** Angels have been found to be even more sensitive to ammonia poisoning than most other fish so more care should be taken to keep ammonia absolutely absent from the tanks during tank transfer method. This is why they are marked with an elevated risk level with TTM. With copper (both kinds) most angels have been found to be relatively resilient in it provided the copper levels are slowly raised over the course of 4 or 5 days. Taking longer never hurts as long as velvet is not suspected.

** The marked wrasse in this section have been found to be tolerant of these copper products provided the levels are carefully risen to therapeutic levels over the course of 4-10 days. Watching carefully for tolerance issues since all fish are individuals and may react differently than the norm. No wrasses should be treated with CP until more testing can be done to understand why they seem to do so poorly.

** Wrasse in general should be allowed to settle and start eating for several days before copper treatment is started. While they can handle copper, it’s best to give them the time before hand for maximum chance of survival. If a wrasse has an injury or infection before going into QT, that “settling time” should be extended until the injury or infection has healed completely before starting copper. Provide a small glass dish of sand for the wrasse that bury at night to help keep them comfortable while in QT.

View attachment 458756

Photo by R2R member @Rsaalman​

** The harlequin tusk seems to be tolerant of all coppers but care must be taken with how quickly the levels are raised. Take 4-5 days to raise copper up to therapeutic levels and watch for tolerance issues

** I have kept lionfish in copper for long periods before without issue, but it's tricky to get them eating and keep them eating. Also, not all the lions attempted lasted in the copper. It seems that 2 out of 5 would do ok and the rest would perish rather quickly.

** I have kept puffers in copper for periods of time as well, but it was chelated copper and it was risky. They refused to eat for up to 2 weeks and had to be enticed using live foods and whole gulf cost shrimp. I didn't have the luxury of raising the levels slowly, so if it's absolutely needed to treat a puffer with copper, then do so slowly if possible.

**Some Zebrasoma tangs seem to be completely intolerant of copper. This is quickly decided if red blotches, loss of color or the refuse to eat while raising the copper levels. If this happens the fish should be removed into a QT with no copper in it until it resumes eating and it's color has returned. If it happens again after a second try in copper, another QT method should be used if possible.

If you have any questions on an individual species not listed here, please ask. Also, never be afraid to create a thread in the disease forum with QT questions as well.

View attachment 458757

photo by R2R member @d_adler​

Fantastic information. Thanks so much! Printing this for future reference!

 

[TrishK]

I know this is an old thread but just curious how you do TTM with wrasses if they don’t have white spots but you know there is ich in DT? Do you put them altogether (we have 4) and still switch them after 72 hours? How do you know if the ich just isn’t laying dormant in their gills?

 

[Cbones1979]

Didn’t see no color blenny on the list. Safe for copper?

 

[joe0813]

Didn’t see no color blenny on the list. Safe for copper?

Blenny will be fine in copper. I would personally use Copper power or copper safe since they aren't as harsh

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)​

The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be absolute in most cases. All fish are individuals and can and will react differently than the norm to certain medications or situations. Just because most tangs do well in copper doesn’t mean that every tang will do well. The chart is numbered in levels of tolerance/ease with each method according to the general experience of several knowledgeable people including myself, @4FordFamily, @Humblefish, @eatbreakfast, @evolved and @Brew12. I thank each of them for their input and help in putting this whole thing together. You will also find helpful advice and tips for QT’ing many of the fish in this chart that are deemed more difficult.

Acronyms used: TTM = Tank Transfer Method CP = Chloroquine Phosphate

View attachment 458751 View attachment 458752 View attachment 458753

** Angels have been found to be even more sensitive to ammonia poisoning than most other fish so more care should be taken to keep ammonia absolutely absent from the tanks during tank transfer method. This is why they are marked with an elevated risk level with TTM. With copper (both kinds) most angels have been found to be relatively resilient in it provided the copper levels are slowly raised over the course of 4 or 5 days. Taking longer never hurts as long as velvet is not suspected.

** The marked wrasse in this section have been found to be tolerant of these copper products provided the levels are carefully risen to therapeutic levels over the course of 4-10 days. Watching carefully for tolerance issues since all fish are individuals and may react differently than the norm. No wrasses should be treated with CP until more testing can be done to understand why they seem to do so poorly.

** Wrasse in general should be allowed to settle and start eating for several days before copper treatment is started. While they can handle copper, it’s best to give them the time before hand for maximum chance of survival. If a wrasse has an injury or infection before going into QT, that “settling time” should be extended until the injury or infection has healed completely before starting copper. Provide a small glass dish of sand for the wrasse that bury at night to help keep them comfortable while in QT.

View attachment 458756

Photo by R2R member @Rsaalman​

** The harlequin tusk seems to be tolerant of all coppers but care must be taken with how quickly the levels are raised. Take 4-5 days to raise copper up to therapeutic levels and watch for tolerance issues

** I have kept lionfish in copper for long periods before without issue, but it's tricky to get them eating and keep them eating. Also, not all the lions attempted lasted in the copper. It seems that 2 out of 5 would do ok and the rest would perish rather quickly.

** I have kept puffers in copper for periods of time as well, but it was chelated copper and it was risky. They refused to eat for up to 2 weeks and had to be enticed using live foods and whole gulf cost shrimp. I didn't have the luxury of raising the levels slowly, so if it's absolutely needed to treat a puffer with copper, then do so slowly if possible.

**Some Zebrasoma tangs seem to be completely intolerant of copper. This is quickly decided if red blotches, loss of color or the refuse to eat while raising the copper levels. If this happens the fish should be removed into a QT with no copper in it until it resumes eating and it's color has returned. If it happens again after a second try in copper, another QT method should be used if possible.

If you have any questions on an individual species not listed here, please ask. Also, never be afraid to create a thread in the disease forum with QT questions as well.

View attachment 458757

photo by R2R member @d_adler​

i treated my volitan lion with cupramine for 28 days with literally no issue.

 

[Cetus]

Where does Copper Power factor into this and would they, with preparation and caution, be okay to use to quarantine a Melanurus Wrasse? If so, how would you go about preparing a Melanurus Wrasse for prophylactic treatment since I know they might require a small sandbed and I'm not sure if that'll absorb copper outright.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Where does Copper Power factor into this and would they, with preparation and caution, be okay to use to quarantine a Melanurus Wrasse? If so, how would you go about preparing a Melanurus Wrasse for prophylactic treatment since I know they might require a small sandbed and I'm not sure if that'll absorb copper outright.

Wrasse liked that do prefer a sand bed that they can sleep in, it has to be large enough for them to slide under the surface. With a bit of searching, you should be able to find inert sand (not coral sand) that won't bind with the copper. Some pet stores sell it for FW tanks. Home improvement stores carry silica sand and sand blasting garnet, but I worry that those could have undesirable contaminants.

Jay

 

[Cetus]

Wrasse liked that do prefer a sand bed that they can sleep in, it has to be large enough for them to slide under the surface. With a bit of searching, you should be able to find inert sand (not coral sand) that won't bind with the copper. Some pet stores sell it for FW tanks. Home improvement stores carry silica sand and sand blasting garnet, but I worry that those could have undesirable contaminants.

Jay

Tried looking up inert sand and got this which seems to be made with FW tanks in mind. Would this work to not bind with copper and provide the wrasse with something to sleep in for QT?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Tried looking up inert sand and got this which seems to be made with FW tanks in mind. Would this work to not bind with copper and provide the wrasse with something to sleep in for QT?

Yep - that says non-calcareous, and safe for discus, so that won't bond with copper!

Jay

 

[hairyashell]

I have a dogface puffer in copper power now with my other new fishes. It came in a bit stressed and hasnt eaten since then. It's been about a week. I raised the copper over 4-5 days to therapeutic levels. Any suggestions on how to get it eating? I am worried he is stressed out due to the copper and wont eat throughout the 30 days of copper.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I have a dogface puffer in copper power now with my other new fishes. It came in a bit stressed and hasnt eaten since then. It's been about a week. I raised the copper over 4-5 days to therapeutic levels. Any suggestions on how to get it eating? I am worried he is stressed out due to the copper and wont eat throughout the 30 days of copper.

try live ghost shrimp or even live brine shrimp. They often are miserable in copper treatment. What test kit are you using to monitor copper level (hopefully not API ) and level is your copper at?

 

[hairyashell]

try live ghost shrimp or even live brine shrimp. They often are miserable in copper treatment. What test kit are you using to monitor copper level (hopefully not API ) and level is your copper at?

now at 2.2 ppm. using Hanna checker.

 

[ssunthar]

Fish and Treatment Guidelines (with chart)​

The following chart is a quick reference guide on what QT protocol should be used according to which type of fish you are running through QT. It will give you an idea of which methods are generally safest with certain species but is not meant to be absolute in most cases. All fish are individuals and can and will react differently than the norm to certain medications or situations. Just because most tangs do well in copper doesn’t mean that every tang will do well. The chart is numbered in levels of tolerance/ease with each method according to the general experience of several knowledgeable people including myself, @4FordFamily, @Humblefish, @eatbreakfast, @evolved and @Brew12. I thank each of them for their input and help in putting this whole thing together. You will also find helpful advice and tips for QT’ing many of the fish in this chart that are deemed more difficult.

Acronyms used: TTM = Tank Transfer Method CP = Chloroquine Phosphate

View attachment 458751 View attachment 458752 View attachment 458753

** Angels have been found to be even more sensitive to ammonia poisoning than most other fish so more care should be taken to keep ammonia absolutely absent from the tanks during tank transfer method. This is why they are marked with an elevated risk level with TTM. With copper (both kinds) most angels have been found to be relatively resilient in it provided the copper levels are slowly raised over the course of 4 or 5 days. Taking longer never hurts as long as velvet is not suspected.

** The marked wrasse in this section have been found to be tolerant of these copper products provided the levels are carefully risen to therapeutic levels over the course of 4-10 days. Watching carefully for tolerance issues since all fish are individuals and may react differently than the norm. No wrasses should be treated with CP until more testing can be done to understand why they seem to do so poorly.

** Wrasse in general should be allowed to settle and start eating for several days before copper treatment is started. While they can handle copper, it’s best to give them the time before hand for maximum chance of survival. If a wrasse has an injury or infection before going into QT, that “settling time” should be extended until the injury or infection has healed completely before starting copper. Provide a small glass dish of sand for the wrasse that bury at night to help keep them comfortable while in QT.

View attachment 458756

Photo by R2R member @Rsaalman​

** The harlequin tusk seems to be tolerant of all coppers but care must be taken with how quickly the levels are raised. Take 4-5 days to raise copper up to therapeutic levels and watch for tolerance issues

** I have kept lionfish in copper for long periods before without issue, but it's tricky to get them eating and keep them eating. Also, not all the lions attempted lasted in the copper. It seems that 2 out of 5 would do ok and the rest would perish rather quickly.

** I have kept puffers in copper for periods of time as well, but it was chelated copper and it was risky. They refused to eat for up to 2 weeks and had to be enticed using live foods and whole gulf cost shrimp. I didn't have the luxury of raising the levels slowly, so if it's absolutely needed to treat a puffer with copper, then do so slowly if possible.

**Some Zebrasoma tangs seem to be completely intolerant of copper. This is quickly decided if red blotches, loss of color or the refuse to eat while raising the copper levels. If this happens the fish should be removed into a QT with no copper in it until it resumes eating and it's color has returned. If it happens again after a second try in copper, another QT method should be used if possible.

If you have any questions on an individual species not listed here, please ask. Also, never be afraid to create a thread in the disease forum with QT questions as well.

View attachment 458757

photo by R2R member @d_adler​

Thank you very much, a great and very useful research and sharing indeed.

A quick question... hope you dont mind.
What will be the alternative
suggestion/recommendation for treating those fishes known to be not toleranting copper very well?

Note: Very sorry, as i had not read all the many messages here... in case someone already asked this question and in case the answer is already shared.

Thanks.