First reef tank, extreme tank downturn. No idea what to do. Appreciate help!

[vetteguy53081]

Here is todays full tank shot

This suggests an algae issue and not cyano or dino

 

[liddojunior]

Sorry, when I said full tank shot, I meant a picture that included the whole tank, so we can see your filtration, lighting and flow supplement.

From what I can see, your return pump is the sole source of flow in the tank. The device in the top right corner... is that a power head or is that a glass cleaner? I'm thinking glass cleaner as you wouldn't install a powerhead on the front of the tank.

I can't see which lighting you're using. Please tell us.

Also, your tank depth is important. it will help us to determine if your light is penetrating the water with enough intensity to support coral growth.

Sorry didn’t do the full image. It’s return pump and a nano wavemaker aka powerhead. It’s on the top left. Top right is a mini glass cleaner.
Light is Kessil A80 and the height is 13.8”

 

[liddojunior]

This suggests an algae issue and not cyano or dino

Yeah I don’t think I have Dino’s anymore! I manually removed it and I think the nutrients going back up got rid of it

 

[liddojunior]

While algae is a good sign of nutrients. . . It comes to what level of nutrients
What is your phosphate-nitrate-ph and salinity levels?
What test kit are you using?
Have you used tap water from faucet at some point or RODI water ?
Zoas may be affected by bright light, inadequate flow and high Phosphate levels.

Verify your nitrate and phos levels, lower amount of food fed and reduce while light intensity.
Assure to have cleaner snails (not just one or two) such as : Astrea, Turbo grazer, cerith, trochus and nassarius.
Also about 8-10 caribbean blue leg hermit crabs and even a pencil usrchin

Never used tap water. The other stuff is on the main post.
As for hermit crabs and urchin, wouldnt a 10 gallon is too small for that many inverts
i use salifort for testing nutrients and had local lfs also check my parameters

 

[liddojunior]

Having corals die rapidly with brown jelly substance and odor is BJD. This occurs when corals are under stress and their immune systems collapse. Heads die very quickly overnight.

Brown snotty algae is dinos which occurs when nitrates and phosphate are bottomed out as you stated in your post in the sequence timeliness.

The obvious main issue here is the instability of your parameters which is typical for new tanks under a year old. You need to stick to basic nano tank care and focus on stabilizing your parameters in proper ranges.

As the other poster mentioned get an RODI and make your own salt water. It's easy.

While RODI system and making my own salt makes sense for long term success.

I’m wondering what to do now to save these current corals.

Having corals die rapidly with brown jelly substance and odor is BJD. This occurs when corals are under stress and their immune systems collapse. Heads die very quickly overnight.

Brown snotty algae is dinos which occurs when nitrates and phosphate are bottomed out as you stated in your post in the sequence timeliness.

The obvious main issue here is the instability of your parameters which is typical for new tanks under a year old. You need to stick to basic nano tank care and focus on stabilizing your parameters in proper ranges.

As the other poster mentioned get an RODI and make your own salt water. It's easy.

Not sure what exactly which parameters need to change and how to change it. That’s the big thing, if I go to bulk reef supply or the forum, the recommend parameters vary and mine seem to be in the recommend ranges so I’m here like which is wrong and how to fix.

I’m not sure what is stabile or not stable parameters. CA, kH, Mg dropped following water changes and stopping all in reef dose because kH was high.

BRS suggest 8-12 and I’ve constantly been sitting at 10.6-10.9. Is that too much instability?
The Nitrates/phosphate did zero out but for the most part have been stable at 2-5-5ppm and less than 0.03
And some have said to increase those to be higher.

So I’m honestly like how much is normal fluctuations and how much is too unstable.

And I’m wondering if I change things will it only hurt the aquarium more? If I raise salinity, lower temp, increase Mg, increase Nitrate and Phosphates. All seem like major changes and really looking to find out how to safely change these parameters without shocking the corals.

 

[Reef Psychology]

While RODI system and making my own salt makes sense for long term success.

I’m wondering what to do now to save these current corals.


Not sure what exactly which parameters need to change and how to change it. That’s the big thing, if I go to bulk reef supply or the forum, the recommend parameters vary and mine seem to be in the recommend ranges so I’m here like which is wrong and how to fix.

I’m not sure what is stabile or not stable parameters. CA, kH, Mg dropped following water changes and stopping all in reef dose because kH was high.

BRS suggest 8-12 and I’ve constantly been sitting at 10.6-10.9. Is that too much instability?
The Nitrates/phosphate did zero out but for the most part have been stable at 2-5-5ppm and less than 0.03
And some have said to increase those to be higher.

So I’m honestly like how much is normal fluctuations and how much is too unstable.

And I’m wondering if I change things will it only hurt the aquarium more? If I raise salinity, lower temp, increase Mg, increase Nitrate and Phosphates. All seem like major changes and really looking to find out how to safely change these parameters without shocking the corals.

I think your current numbers are fine. I’d say just use that poly filter and leave the tank be with water changes 1 week of 2g. Aim to keep all your numbers where they are. Don’t use fresh salt water mix that has been in an open container longer than a week either.

 

[liddojunior]

I think your current numbers are fine. I’d say just use that poly filter and leave the tank be with water changes 1 week of 2g. Aim to keep all your numbers where they are. Don’t use fresh salt water mix that has been in an open container longer than a week either.

I order overnight shipping so that is arriving today. Is there anything you would suggest about the poly filter? Does it change color if there is a specific contaminant or just get brown?

 

[Reef Psychology]

I order overnight shipping so that is arriving today. Is there anything you would suggest about the poly filter? Does it change color if there is a specific contaminant or just get brown?

As long as water hits it, it works. Pay attention to the color after a day or two. Brown is fine. Anything else could be a problem.

 

[Reef Psychology]

I order overnight shipping so that is arriving today. Is there anything you would suggest about the poly filter? Does it change color if there is a specific contaminant or just get brown?

Oh and cut it to size. A little gos a long way. Two by two inches is good fit a few days. Dont run it constantly unless there’s something you’re trying to get out of the tank.

 

[Tamberav]

The Alk was about the same before that it was at 10.7 and Ca was 440
So they have gone done a bit from when I stoped dosing. I basically was dosing based on the instructions and using test kits to measure it wasn’t changing. The reason I was dosing was just to get Mg higher from the salt water I was buying that was more around 1200 ppm. And dosed during water changes. I was testing more biweekly, I don’t really know how to change parameters so was mostly testing to check nothing looked grossly wrong.

I would say nutrients seemed to have gone down before hand, so nutrients might have been too low at the time

Low nutrients and high alk is a bad combination and low po4 in particular with high alk could potentially stress euphyllia.

Personally I would aim for an alk closer to 8. I would never run a alk higher then 9 if my nutrients were nearing 0.. nope.

Many SPS keepers will even bring alk to 7 if they are running near 0. It can cause what is called "burnt tips" or "alk burn" - this is because tissue may not keep up with skeletal growth and the lighting can 'burn' it. Think.. no sunscreen. This is for SPS but ofc LPS can suffer too from imbalances.

If you just need to raise Mg, then dose a Mg only supplement to the water change water. All4reef for maintaining only imo.

It is worth mentioning that near 0 in a new tank is different then near 0 in an old tank. Please keep in mind test kits are also hobby grade so the numbers given are not exact.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Never used tap water. The other stuff is on the main post.
As for hermit crabs and urchin, wouldnt a 10 gallon is too small for that many inverts
i use salifort for testing nutrients and had local lfs also check my parameters

You can get two of each with no concern

 

[Lavey29]

While RODI system and making my own salt makes sense for long term success.

I’m wondering what to do now to save these current corals.


Not sure what exactly which parameters need to change and how to change it. That’s the big thing, if I go to bulk reef supply or the forum, the recommend parameters vary and mine seem to be in the recommend ranges so I’m here like which is wrong and how to fix.

I’m not sure what is stabile or not stable parameters. CA, kH, Mg dropped following water changes and stopping all in reef dose because kH was high.

BRS suggest 8-12 and I’ve constantly been sitting at 10.6-10.9. Is that too much instability?
The Nitrates/phosphate did zero out but for the most part have been stable at 2-5-5ppm and less than 0.03
And some have said to increase those to be higher.

So I’m honestly like how much is normal fluctuations and how much is too unstable.

And I’m wondering if I change things will it only hurt the aquarium more? If I raise salinity, lower temp, increase Mg, increase Nitrate and Phosphates. All seem like major changes and really looking to find out how to safely change these parameters without shocking the corals.

Apparently you are not reading post correctly. No your parameters are not fine for LPS which is why everything is dying on you. You should not be dosing stuff like all for reef in a new nano tank. Water changes replenish everything needed.

I'll step aside now and wish you luck in your learning curve here. We all went through it at some point. Save your money on torch gardens until you gain a better understanding of the requirements to maintain a successful reef tank. It will come with time. Patience is the name of the game here.

 

[liddojunior]

Apparently you are not reading post correctly. No your parameters are not fine for LPS which is why everything is dying on you. You should not be dosing stuff like all for reef in a new nano tank. Water changes replenish everything needed.

I'll step aside now and wish you luck in your learning curve here. We all went through it at some point. Save your money on torch gardens until you gain a better understanding of the requirements to maintain a successful reef tank. It will come with time. Patience is the name of the game here.

Low nutrients and high alk is a bad combination and low po4 in particular with high alk could potentially stress euphyllia.

Personally I would aim for an alk closer to 8. I would never run a alk higher then 9 if my nutrients were nearing 0.. nope.

Many SPS keepers will even bring alk to 7 if they are running near 0. It can cause what is called "burnt tips" or "alk burn" - this is because tissue may not keep up with skeletal growth and the lighting can 'burn' it. Think.. no sunscreen. This is for SPS but ofc LPS can suffer too from imbalances.

If you just need to raise Mg, then dose a Mg only supplement to the water change water. All4reef for maintaining only imo.

It is worth mentioning that near 0 in a new tank is different then near 0 in an old tank. Please keep in mind test kits are also hobby grade so the numbers given are not exact.

I know my parameters are not okay based on coral response. But if I google reef tank parameters, I get if I look at BRS, liveaquaria, and reefkeeping. Which is a big source of confusion!

Salinty 1.023-1.027
Temp 76-82 F
ph 7.8-8.5
Nitrate 1-10 ppm
Phos 0-0.03 ppm
Ca 350-450 ppm
Alk 8-12
Mg 1200-1500 ppm

If I look at red sea mixed reef parameters recommendations Its even more confusing because it contradicts what users are saying here but fits into BRS recommended ranges.

Sorry I don't mean to argue what is right. I literally don't even know. I'm like okay so my parameters are in the recommended ranges but its a harmful environment for corals. And now apparently there is combo action going on, like if nutrients are low, need to go lower alk? And then apparently 0.1 pmm phosphate is not good and causing algae but red sea recommends really high phosphate.

And I'm like something is not right, what should I actually be targeting. And how do I safely make adjustments. Or is there something SUPER wrong and need to do X action now.

Are any of my parameters good? Or everything needs to change?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I know my parameters are not okay based on coral response. But if I google reef tank parameters, I get if I look at BRS, liveaquaria, and reefkeeping. Which is a big source of confusion!

Salinty 1.023-1.027
Temp 76-82 F
ph 7.8-8.5
Nitrate 1-10 ppm
Phos 0-0.03 ppm
Ca 350-450 ppm
Alk 8-12
Mg 1200-1500 ppm

If I look at red sea mixed reef parameters recommendations Its even more confusing because it contradicts what users are saying here but fits into BRS recommended ranges.

Sorry I don't mean to argue what is right. I literally don't even know. I'm like okay so my parameters are in the recommended ranges but its a harmful environment for corals. And now apparently there is combo action going on, like if nutrients are low, need to go lower alk? And then apparently 0.1 pmm phosphate is not good and causing algae but red sea recommends really high phosphate.

And I'm like something is not right, what should I actually be targeting. And how do I safely make adjustments. Or is there something SUPER wrong and need to do X action now.

Are any of my parameters good? Or everything needs to change?

Alk slightly elevated but I like these numbers. I think what is being expressed is that with a new tank, No need to add all for reef or any supplements with a newer tank of smaller volume and if you are doing regular water changes with a good quality salt, you may not need to add anything at all Unless water tests suggest a need for such additions assuming you are using reliable test kits

 

[Tamberav]

I know my parameters are not okay based on coral response. But if I google reef tank parameters, I get if I look at BRS, liveaquaria, and reefkeeping. Which is a big source of confusion!

Salinty 1.023-1.027
Temp 76-82 F
ph 7.8-8.5
Nitrate 1-10 ppm
Phos 0-0.03 ppm
Ca 350-450 ppm
Alk 8-12
Mg 1200-1500 ppm

If I look at red sea mixed reef parameters recommendations Its even more confusing because it contradicts what users are saying here but fits into BRS recommended ranges.

Sorry I don't mean to argue what is right. I literally don't even know. I'm like okay so my parameters are in the recommended ranges but its a harmful environment for corals. And now apparently there is combo action going on, like if nutrients are low, need to go lower alk? And then apparently 0.1 pmm phosphate is not good and causing algae but red sea recommends really high phosphate.

And I'm like something is not right, what should I actually be targeting. And how do I safely make adjustments. Or is there something SUPER wrong and need to do X action now.

Are any of my parameters good? Or everything needs to change?

BRS and live aquaria are just businesses that sell stuff and give generalized information and fancy videos. Their ranges are not wrong but I guess they probably also don't go into detail either. Reef Keeping probably does somewhere.

I don't even know why someone would list 0-0.03 PO4 if that really is the range.

Your algae is caused by the tank being out of balance and the die off of many corals. The fact that the tank is young also generally makes algae thrive/easy to take over when something is off. My PO4 is much higher then 0.1 atm because I have 11 month old and I have zero algae. My nitrates are around 40-50.. still no algae (and no SPS either haha). The tank is balanced still and corals are fine, mostly softies these days but some LPS too.

I bet if you looked at this you will find most/all tanks have lower alk and if they have higher alk they have higher nutrients. I bet some of them fall out of whatever recommended ranges.

Tank Parameters Of Some Masters

Tank Parameters Of Some Masters To this day one of the most frequently asked questions I get, and actually that many “old time hobbyists” get is “How do I get rid of the algae in my tank. My first question then is “what are the parameters of...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[liddojunior]

Alk slightly elevated but I like these numbers. I think what is being expressed is that with a new tank, No need to add all for reef or any supplements with a newer tank of smaller volume and if you are doing regular water changes with a good quality salt, you may not need to add anything at all Unless water tests suggest a need for such additions assuming you are using reliable test kits

Yeah I was doing all for reef but stopped. But it’s still going downhill but I’m now on the same page as I don’t need to dose this.
I use Red Sea pro and salifort test kits. I don’t know if there’s anything better.

BRS and live aquaria are just businesses that sell stuff and give generalized information and fancy videos. Their ranges are not wrong but I guess they probably also don't go into detail either. Reef Keeping probably does somewhere.

I don't even know why someone would list 0-0.03 PO4 if that really is the range.

Your algae is caused by the tank being out of balance and the die off of many corals. The fact that the tank is young also generally makes algae thrive/easy to take over when something is off. My PO4 is much higher then 0.1 atm because I have 11 month old and I have zero algae. My nitrates are around 40-50.. still no algae (and no SPS either haha). The tank is balanced still and corals are fine, mostly softies these days but some LPS too.

I bet if you looked at this you will find most/all tanks have lower alk and if they have higher alk they have higher nutrients. I bet some of them fall out of whatever recommended ranges.

Tank Parameters Of Some Masters

Tank Parameters Of Some Masters To this day one of the most frequently asked questions I get, and actually that many “old time hobbyists” get is “How do I get rid of the algae in my tank. My first question then is “what are the parameters of...

www.reef2reef.com

My tank is just as old though. See I never heard anywhere that nutrient levels and alk are tied and can be harmful if not proportional!

Thank you to everyone for attention. But being told it’s well it’s a new tank and a broad statement as things are out of balanced honestly isn’t helpful. I already know that, my post is starting with me saying it’s not going well and something is off. Here is what I have, but I’m not sure what the issue is so I can tackle it.

I water change all the time. I have an ATO and check my salinity several times a week. Lights on timer. I do my water testing to make sure things arent out of ranges. The tank doesn’t have any surface scum or obvious signs of high organics. Based on videos and guides for beginners, I’m doing the right things. I set up the tank, waited 6 months before corals. Got past the ugly algae stage and didn’t have an algae issue until recently. But it’s still not working. What am I missing?

What is correct, what is off, why do you think it is off, what you recommend it should be and how do I get to that value is honestly what I think would be helpful!
People suggesting my Nitrate and Phosphates are low and recommending increase is helpful!

As far as actions I should be taking, what to do? I can change water all the time but that’s not apparently not enough.

Right now what I’m thinking needs to be done is safely raise nutrient levels. And Alk, no idea how to change that to go lower. I read online that you just gotta let it naturally lower? And if I keep nutrients up and lower Alk. My corals should feel like they are in a suitable environment.

But what do I do about the algae covering them, I feel like constantly taking them out and removing algae is just going to stressful. Is there something that will eat that algae?

 

[Tamberav]

You can lower alk by just doing a water change using a salt with lower alk. There are other ways but that is my favorite way.

Manually remove the algae, a proper CUC can help eat it (trochus, tuxedo urchin, etc). - Generally you always need some sort of manual removal if the algae is long... snails have a hard time if it is long but emeralds (some people hate them) and urchins do handle the longer stuff better. FYI the captive tuxedo's are tiny and grow slow. I have one with two trochus, 1 emerald crab, a few hitchhiker snails and a female emerald crab in my 5g pest tank.

 

[liddojunior]

You can lower alk by just doing a water change using a salt with lower alk. There are other ways but that is my favorite way.

Manually remove the algae, a proper CUC can help eat it (trochus, tuxedo urchin, etc). - Generally you always need some sort of manual removal if the algae is long... snails have a hard time if it is long. FYI the captive tuxedo's are tiny and grow slow. I have one with two trochus, 1 emerald crab, a few hitchhiker snails and a female emerald crab in my 5g pest tank.

When it comes to tuxedo urchins. I read they eat corralline algae. For a newer tank would this be an issue? Isn’t this algae type essential ?

 

[Tamberav]

When it comes to tuxedo urchins. I read they eat corralline algae. For a newer tank would this be an issue? Isn’t this algae type essential ?

No not essential. They will eat many types of algae. They will even eat nori.

 

[liddojunior]

No not essential. They will eat many types of algae. They will even eat nori.

Good to know! I’ll check my lfs and read on a care guide for them. I would hate for them to starve so didn’t think an urchin can fit in my tank