Extremely weird tank parameters

[twentyleagues]

I started using Restore a couple months ago and I am not sure who posted it but they said to soak flake food in Restore then feed it to the lps corals. Putting it directly into your water column doesnt work as well as it is too dilute to be effective and directly adds undesirables to the water that the corals are probably not using. I have "noticed" improvement in growth and overall health of my lps doing this, could be placebo or imagination on my part. But if you read this Thank you! I feel it works.

 

[twentyleagues]

I have the Hanna checkers for all the major elements plus po4 and no3. That’s what I’m using, bought new reagents last week since the ones I had were expired

are you using the separate testers or the multi-tester?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hey everyone so I’ve been fighting to get my parameters stable since the tank is relatively new. I tested my parameters 3 weeks ago for the first time after losing 2 torches and saw I had extremely high phosphorus 3.9 ppm trying to feed all my tangs so they’re happy and stop fighting. Since then I’ve been doing largeish water changes 35-40 % give or take. I also got a tunze algae reactor to help lower the nutrients. I use Teopic Marin pro reef.

I’ve burchaed a bunch of LPS (torches, hammer, frogspawns, elegance and gonis). I see a lot of my torch corals flesh bands are receding by a significant amount, the hammers, frogs pawns, and gonis are doing relatively well I guess. I did a 3 KFC dips and after 2 torches died 2 weeks ago.

Problem with the first tests P04 very high and cal was also very high even though I don’t dose anything

First test (all hanna checkers)
Salinity 35.1
N03- 11.3
P04- 3.9
Alk- 7.0 dkh
Mag- 1400
Cal- 547
PH- 7.8

After 3 weeks of 35-40% water changes and algae reactor

Problem here is magnesium is very high and calcium is very low.

Tested by LFS today 8/2/24 (attached photo)
salinity 37.1
NO3- 18 ppm
PO4- 1.3 ppm
Mag- 1520
Alk- 6.8 dkh
Cal- 384 ppm
PH- 7.8

Went home after that to double check with my Hanna checkers still magnesium is very high

Salinity 35.5 ppt (calibrated the Hanna salinity pen today)
N03- 19.5 ppm
P04- 1.2 ppm
Mag- 1520 ppm
Alk- 7.1 dkh
Cal- 512 ppm (checked twice)
PH- 7.8 ppm

This spin test unit has been known to produce false readings as by LaMonte was originally an API unit.
I recommend taking water to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at

 

[twentyleagues]

Yeah I haven’t added anything new since I saw my PO4 and parameters are outta line so I’ve been trying to fix the problem slowly every week with water changes. I have wall to wall LPS corals in the tank so I just don’t want to lose any more of them. How can I get the alk and ca stable? I can start with all for reef or water changes.

You can use afr. But you need to get the parameter stable first. And make sure your tests are accurate. AFR is a maintenance thing not something to be used to get stuff inline. Daily "accurate" alk tests are needed to figure out your alk usage. Then start with the smallest dose of afr and see where your alk is 24hrs later increase or decrease dose to keep alk stable.

I use afr and like the simplicity of it. I have had good luck with it and parameters stay close to where I want them. After lots of testing and adjusting my parameters with 2 part to get them where I wanted them I started afr. Slight learning curve to use it properly and I did What Randy says I test alk to figure out my dosage I test calc once a week and its within margin of error weekly.

 

[bshake]

I started using Restore a couple months ago and I am not sure who posted it but they said to soak flake food in Restore then feed it to the lps corals. Putting it directly into your water column doesnt work as well as it is too dilute to be effective and directly adds undesirables to the water that the corals are probably not using. I have "noticed" improvement in growth and overall health of my lps doing this, could be placebo or imagination on my part. But if you read this Thank you! I feel it works.

I’ll definitely give it a try

 

[bshake]

are you using the separate testers or the multi-tester?

Using separate testers

 

[bshake]

This spin test unit has been known to produce false readings as by LaMonte was originally an API unit.
I recommend taking water to a store that does NOT use Api kits and have them test your ammonia and nitrates and compare readings- then you'll know where your levels truly are at

I want to a few of the LFS around me and they don’t test water. The one that do either use Hanna checkers or API test kits. The owner told me that their machine has been testing a little bit high lately since they got the last Bach of reagents. That’s why when I came home I retested everything to see where the numbers are at

 

[twentyleagues]

Using separate testers

Then I doubt they are all faulty.

I want to a few of the LFS around me and they don’t test water. The one that do either use Hanna checkers or API test kits. The owner told me that their machine has been testing a little bit high lately since they got the last Bach of reagents. That’s why when I came home I retested everything to see where the numbers are at

I would still see if they can cross check at least alk and po4. I would not worry about mag at all. Calc maybe get a salifert or redsea kit to test. I use redsea for calc and mag. Once I read about how to use the hannah calc test and its very unreliable results if everything isnt perfect, and the composition of the dilution water and all that I said no thank you. What are you using for the dilution water? If it has traces of calc in it the test will be wrong.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Then I doubt they are all faulty.

I would still see if they can cross check at least alk and po4. I would not worry about mag at all. Calc maybe get a salifert or redsea kit to test. I use redsea for calc and mag. Once I read about how to use the hannah calc test and its very unreliable results if everything isnt perfect, and the composition of the dilution water and all that I said no thank you. What are you using for the dilution water? If it has traces of calc in it the test will be wrong.

Hanna would be acceptable. An ICP test would also be a consideration
Salifert also good

 

[Cichlid Dad]

Should I start dosing all for reef? I have a bottle here but haven’t started

AFR is not for adjusting parameters. It's used to maintain. You must get your parameters in check first.

Here is the cheapest way to add cal alk and magnesium

2-Part Pharma Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package

Start Replenishing Calcium and Alkalinity in your Reef Tank! Keep your corals growing with the BRS 2-Part Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package. The kit includes everything to make one gallon of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and to start daily dosing, it even includes mixing jugs, dispensing...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Here is the calculator for the 3 part system from BRS. This will allow you to nail parameters

Aquarium and Reef Calculators - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

 

[twentyleagues]

Hanna would be acceptable. An ICP test would also be a consideration
Salifert also good

I dont like the "fussiness" of the hannah calc test. I have salifert alk, calc and mag and also redsea calc, alk and mag the redsea and salifert seem to be very close if not exact to each other during my tests. I do like the redsea vial/syringe holder thing quite a bit but that isnt why I use it. I hate the test kit box the redsea came with I cant get the stuff back in it the same way twice, its pretty much useless.

 

[Mschmidt]

So coral snow exports po4?

Yup. Calcium chloride binds phos.

I wasn’t testing because everything seemed happy and since it was a new tank I figured water changes were enough but now I know I’m wrong. I don’t dose anything into the tank besides chatogrow and restore that’s why I’m confused by why my parameters are all over the place.

Well, both of those will raise phos too.

I got a tunze algae reactor for nutrient control and today I’ll do another water change and add some GFO and start testing more regularly and keep track

Does anyone thing the torch flesh bank is happening because of water quality?

Could be. Unless you've seen something bothering it.

Should I start dosing all for reef? I have a bottle here but haven’t started

I'd hold off till you're done adjusting everything else.

 

[KrisReef]

I’ll try and check the new salt water I just made and see what the parameters are on that to see and maybe take it to the LFS and have them run their test on it as well.

I expect your "new" salt water will be high in Mg and the other parameters will also be similar to what is in your salt mix. I think one of the Red Sea salts mixes high/similar to what you are getting?
Having elevated salt mixes makes it difficult to get dosing for CA/Alk in line because those parameters get bumped up everytime you do a water change, making stability more challenging to achieve.

Most of the rock that’s in this tank came from my old 75 gallon tank which also had very high phosphates but I cured it in bleach and recycled it but I’m assuming it’s pound within the rock work.

You have learned, Chlorine bleach doesn't strip phosphate, only organics from old rock. I like to use salt water and lanthanum chloride in a bucket for old rock, and mabe a little bleach if the rock is totally filthy and I am in a hurry. Usually just old salt water and LC, no light and a circulation pump for me.

Yeah I haven’t added anything new since I saw my PO4 and parameters are outta line so I’ve been trying to fix the problem slowly every week with water changes. I have wall to wall LPS corals in the tank so I just don’t want to lose any more of them. How can I get the alk and ca stable? I can start with all for reef or water changes.

I don't know what is killing your LPS. Maybe start a new thread with that title and some pictures of the corals. The sickness / deaths may not be related to parameters and the water changes may have sped up their demise?

If you have brown Jelly, a picture of the sick corals would help with a diagnosis. Do you see anything on them?

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

@Mschmidt @KrisReef

Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, but adding more content for others. I have broke a 130G display down and it's in a stock tank right now waiting its new home. In doing so I had to put some sand from old display in temp sump for some sand dwelling CUC. In doing so, I put some pleco algae food in the sump for these critters to feed. Doing this spiked my Po4 (didn't realize how much the package said was included, dumb move on my part). As you can imagine I am fighting diatoms from a relocation, etc etc. Everything is "OK" in terms of happiness. But dkh consumption is up and down like a roller coaster. I am in week 4 now and my Po4 is testing anywhere between .61 and .80 (.8 this AM). I am reluctant to run GFO as I do MS. I started putting e-Phosphate in my roller, but no changes. I am going to do a water change today and hit the sand in the sump for any detritus and residue from the wafers (3-4 weeks ago...). How often can I pound this with snow? I have some but just never used it. Nitrates are sitting about 10. I never had an issue in the old display with Po4 being high. I did not add any new rocks to the display. I did change flakes. There is no mention of Po4 on the ingredients. But, I am using it in two tanks and the other tank tests normal to historicals. I should add I changed flake when Po4 was already testing .60+. Thoughts?

 

[Formulator]

chatogrow and restore that’s why I’m confused

Your tank is confusing because you are dosing these things. Stop dosing and do biweekly 20% water changes. You are right that a new tank shouldn’t require dosing. Keep it simple. Remove the additives.

 

[Mschmidt]

@Mschmidt @KrisReef

Sorry, not trying to hijack this thread, but adding more content for others. I have broke a 130G display down and it's in a stock tank right now waiting its new home. In doing so I had to put some sand from old display in temp sump for some sand dwelling CUC. In doing so, I put some pleco algae food in the sump for these critters to feed. Doing this spiked my Po4 (didn't realize how much the package said was included, dumb move on my part). As you can imagine I am fighting diatoms from a relocation, etc etc. Everything is "OK" in terms of happiness. But dkh consumption is up and down like a roller coaster. I am in week 4 now and my Po4 is testing anywhere between .61 and .80 (.8 this AM). I am reluctant to run GFO as I do MS. I started putting e-Phosphate in my roller, but no changes. I am going to do a water change today and hit the sand in the sump for any detritus and residue from the wafers (3-4 weeks ago...). How often can I pound this with snow? I have some but just never used it. Nitrates are sitting about 10. I never had an issue in the old display with Po4 being high. I did not add any new rocks to the display. I did change flakes. There is no mention of Po4 on the ingredients. But, I am using it in two tanks and the other tank tests normal to historicals. I should add I changed flake when Po4 was already testing .60+. Thoughts?

Snow is benign. You could hit it daily probably. I have a few friends that snow twice a week.

I had a little trouble following but is it just the sand and cuc? And just the stock tank? If that's it, I wouldn't worry about .8 much.
Fun fact I tested last night...

Lrp is fine. Sps could have better color. I'll probably dose LaCl tonight when I snow the tank.

 

[bshake]

Then I doubt they are all faulty.

I would still see if they can cross check at least alk and po4. I would not worry about mag at all. Calc maybe get a salifert or redsea kit to test. I use redsea for calc and mag. Once I read about how to use the hannah calc test and its very unreliable results if everything isnt perfect, and the composition of the dilution water and all that I said no thank you. What are you using for the dilution water? If it has traces of calc in it the test will be wrong.

When I had the LFS check the water their reading for calc was way too low like 300 something and I tested calc 2 times and came out with 512
Hmmm I think the calc requires RODI water and I pull it strait from the RODI unit in a clean glass cup

 

[bshake]

Hanna would be acceptable. An ICP test would also be a consideration
Salifert also good

Yeah I’m going on vacation soon when I come back I want to do an ICP test to see what’s going on exactly

 

[bshake]

AFR is not for adjusting parameters. It's used to maintain. You must get your parameters in check first.

Here is the cheapest way to add cal alk and magnesium

2-Part Pharma Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package

Start Replenishing Calcium and Alkalinity in your Reef Tank! Keep your corals growing with the BRS 2-Part Calcium & Alkalinity Starter Package. The kit includes everything to make one gallon of calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium and to start daily dosing, it even includes mixing jugs, dispensing...

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Here is the calculator for the 3 part system from BRS. This will allow you to nail parameters

Aquarium and Reef Calculators - Bulk Reef Supply

Bulk Reef Supply - Saltwater Aquarium Supplies for Reef Tanks

www.bulkreefsupply.com

Thank you

 

[twentyleagues]

When I had the LFS check the water their reading for calc was way too low like 300 something and I tested calc 2 times and came out with 512
Hmmm I think the calc requires RODI water and I pull it strait from the RODI unit in a clean glass cup

It does and the rodi is the issue. The rodi still has calcium in it so its throwing off the test. You need pure distilled water for that test. Basically lab grade distilled water to get accurate readings. Which is why I dont like the Hannah calc test. Get a Salifert or Redsea calc test.