Dr Tims Fishless Cycle question help please

[K9Fish]

I’m on day 6 of DrTims (fishless cycle) and have the following test results this morning.
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite 2.0
PH 8.3
Nitrate 25

My question is should I add more ammonia drops? There seems to be conflicting information from Dr Tims. The printed material with the chart states to add ammonia drops if you are below 5.0 BUT when you read info on his website it say not to add unless your below 2.0.

My intuition is telling me to do nothing and just wait it out. Thoughts and suggestions please.

Thanks

 

[redfishbluefish]

[HASH=1]#reefsquad[/HASH] might be able to help.

 

[nereefpat]

Welcome to R2R!

I would not add any more ammonia to that tank, ever. I agree with your idea of waiting it out.

 

[Cell]

I'd likely wait another day and see if it drops further. I'd definitely stop testing nitrate when there is nitrite present. You can't accurately measure it until nitrite goes down.

 

[Brian Berry]

I’m on day 6 of DrTims (fishless cycle) and have the following test results this morning.
Ammonia: 4.0
Nitrite 2.0
PH 8.3
Nitrate 25

My question is should I add more ammonia drops? There seems to be conflicting information from Dr Tims. The printed material with the chart states to add ammonia drops if you are below 5.0 BUT when you read info on his website it say not to add unless your below 2.0.

My intuition is telling me to do nothing and just wait it out. Thoughts and suggestions please.

Thanks

I did not use Dr. Tim’s but maybe contact Dr. Tim’s and ask. I want to say just wait it out. Hopefully someone can give you relevant information that has had the same question.

 

[flyingscampi]

I've never gone over 2 and it hasn't affected the cycle.
The nitrate test is distorted when nitrite is present, so don't bother testing nitrate until nitrite is 0.
If you are using API test kit, ammonia measurement will never fall below 0.25, even when there is no ammonia.

I wouldn't add any more ammonia and wait nitrite is near 0, then call it a day.

If you only have fish or soft/LPS corals in tank, nitrates can be up to 30 ppm without bothering anything. Change enough water to bring nitrates down to below 30 then add one small fish to see how it gets on.

 

[Cell]

I've never gone over 2 and it hasn't affected the cycle.
The nitrate test is distorted when nitrite is present, so don't bother testing nitrate until nitrite is 0.
If you are using API test kit, ammonia measurement will never fall below 0.25, even when there is no ammonia.

I wouldn't add any more ammonia and wait nitrite is near 0, then call it a day.

If you only have fish or soft/LPS corals in tank, nitrates can be up to 30 ppm without bothering anything. Change enough water to bring nitrates down to below 30 then add one small fish to see how it gets on.

Agree except for waiting on nitrite to deplete. Nitrite isn't harmful to marine fish at the levels we experience (I need a hotkey for this statement...) so you can start stocking slowly once you are processing ammonia.

 

[brandon429]

small % chance of intercept here

was this dry rocks you used or wet rocks, from a pet store, which circumvents this entire process

asking because we just found a live rock skip cycle running dry rock modes/just checking

 

[K9Fish]

Welcome to R2R!

I would not add any more ammonia to that tank, ever. I agree with your idea of waiting it out.

Thank you. I went down and had a discussion with my LFS for suggestions and their in agreement with waiting. They also tested my water and parameters have changed in the last 6 hours. The only addition of Ammonia in the future will be when my level gets to approx 0.25 I’ll give it a 1/4 dose (1 drop per gallon) and then retest the next day and if it goes back down to near 0.25 we’ll call it cycle complete. Does this sound reasonable And prudent?

Ammonia is still 4.0
Nitirite 4.0
Nitrate up to 100 (only checking to see is nitrate is present)
PH 8.2

Note: This is a 100% fishless cycle.

 

[K9Fish]

small % chance of intercept here

was this dry rocks you used or wet rocks, from a pet store, which circumvents this entire process

asking because we just found a live rock skip cycle running dry rock modes/just checking

CaribeSea - “shapes,etc’ with wet sand.

 

[K9Fish]

I've never gone over 2 and it hasn't affected the cycle.
The nitrate test is distorted when nitrite is present, so don't bother testing nitrate until nitrite is 0.
If you are using API test kit, ammonia measurement will never fall below 0.25, even when there is no ammonia.

I wouldn't add any more ammonia and wait nitrite is near 0, then call it a day.

If you only have fish or soft/LPS corals in tank, nitrates can be up to 30 ppm without bothering anything. Change enough water to bring nitrates down to below 30 then add one small fish to see how it gets on.

Thank you. This is a 100% fishless cycle.

 

[brandon429]

nice. that's good for what you have so far.

key details, tricks to turn this into a testless cycle with a predetermined end date, vs you waiting until april to get the exact same ends:

-don't add any more ammonia for sure. the amount you added didn't hurt your cycle it's great food for bacteria.

-add in one pinch of ground up fish food into the tank, any brand, a pinch ground into powder for high surface area/carbon boosting trick from Dr Reef's 100 page study thread on bottle bac


let all that stew in your mix, don't do anything just let it all stew and watch as the days go by


wait until Feb 25th, change out as much water as you can stand to change up to 100% if possible/it removes all the algae fertilizer provided as bac food, and begin reefing.

you can't make your tank any safer waiting arbitrarily past this date. this trick comes from huge threads we use that already verified this trick three years running in myriad reefs.

you don't have to wait for the current water to 'clear' you can sub in this trick and get your rocks covered equally well as you would waiting several more weeks. What your test kits read won't matter whatsoever, they're non digital and are already wrong.

*we are using a pre calculated # of days known to work, charted on cycling charts already, to discern your cycle close date and save you a giant headache + you buying multiple bottles of bacteria. fish food, a water change on the date stated, and you're done

B

 

[brandon429]

final hint

now that your cycle is solved before it's due date, you want to consider posts in the disease forum on how to prep your tank against fish disease. carrying fish after a cycle is the easy part, we just named your close date.


the hard part is not getting disease outbreaks in dry rock starts, the rate is about 80%+ certain to happen within a few months if you skip fallow, quarantine and biosecurity protocols as you begin using your newly cycled reef. source for the claims and ratios: everything written in the fish disease forum.

updated cycling science is fun: we literally just backseated your cycle to 0% concern and took a right turn on the disease highway to begin preps there. all focus now becomes not immediately infecting your tank with cryptocarion on day 1 of use.

all old cycling science requires you to clear out the current wastewater created with the ammonia overage, and not read one iota on fish disease. it's good for your reef, pocketbook and fish retention % rate we just amended those old rules.

 

[K9Fish]

final hint

now that your cycle is solved before it's due date, you want to consider posts in the disease forum on how to prep your tank against fish disease. carrying fish after a cycle is the easy part, we just named your close date.


the hard part is not getting disease outbreaks in dry rock starts, the rate is about 80%+ certain to happen within a few months if you skip fallow, quarantine and biosecurity protocols as you begin using your newly cycled reef. source for the claims and ratios: everything written in the fish disease forum.

updated cycling science is fun: we literally just backseated your cycle to 0% concern and took a right turn on the disease highway to begin preps there. all focus now becomes not immediately infecting your tank with cryptocarion on day 1 of use.

all old cycling science requires you to clear out the current wastewater created with the ammonia overage, and not read one iota on fish disease. it's good for your reef, pocketbook and fish retention % rate we just amended those old rules.

Thank you, I’ll give it a go. I do already have a QT tank going with a couple clowns that are doing well. Thanks for the help.

 

[nereefpat]

The only addition of Ammonia in the future will be when my level gets to approx 0.25 I’ll give it a 1/4 dose (1 drop per gallon) and then retest the next day and if it goes back down to near 0.25 we’ll call it cycle complete. Does this sound reasonable And prudent?

There is no reason to add any more ammonia. I don't think a double check by adding more ammonia is needed. After ammonia tests at a safe level, then the tank is safe for fish.

 

[brandon429]

hey if you would agree to test it by adding life/proceeding to reef on the stated date I would be accountable for the outcome here, I want to promote exactly the way you're approaching reefing/with disease in mind, no cycle fear/ + a testless cycle and I'm building article materials in favor of the new ways; how it works in reef tanks for other people is entirely the proof we use.

if it works we want to know, and if your tank dies in a horrible slog of goo we want to know and I'll quit posting about updated cycling science. the whole point of the new science is it works for everyone, all the time.

*said because anyone running qt is in awareness of acclimation and salinity needs for stocking fish in new tanks, there won't be any variables you're missing

average aquarists are buying pet store clownfish at .016 salinity, adding them into a .025 setup with no disease preps and shocking them osmotically, or bag floating them to burn in ammonia inside the bag vs the tank, then blaming the cycle if they act funny in the display. I'm trying to undo that habit system in reefing, thanks tons
B

 

[brandon429]

the timing mentioned above also factors in your worst case scenario of having dead bottle bacteria which I don't believe happens more than .1% of the time in reefing cycles. with feed only and this much submersion time and a water change, you'd still be able to carry clowns.

the bottle bac makes it compound cycled by the stated date, there are safeguards built into the reco

a common stack of rocks in the contact stew amplifies the presentation of bacteria to wastewater via their surface area= craggy/jutted and pointed microfilters touching all your wastewater once fish are in the system.

 

[flyingscampi]

Agree except for waiting on nitrite to deplete. Nitrite isn't harmful to marine fish at the levels we experience (I need a hotkey for this statement...) so you can start stocking slowly once you are processing ammonia.

I only wait for it to deplete so I know how much nitrate I've got to get rid of I changed 50% to get it below 30 ppm on my current tank.

 

[K9Fish]

Ok, I’ll take you up on it (crushed flakes added about an hour ago). For full disclosure I’m running display tank at .022 at a temp of 81.5 to 82 through the cycling process to theoretically help cultivate the bacteria. My plan was to begin slowly increasing the SG to .025 starting on the 19th through my ATO. My QT tank is at .025 with a temp of 78. I do like the science and learning more about the chemistry of the water along the way. I do want to still chart almost daily water parameters, not because it’s needed and not to make changes to the plan but to have a better understanding of the process. I do understand my numbers may be off as all of my equipment is not digital (some is) but to me it simply shows a trend. Pics below just to show my current set up. Let me know if all of this fits with what you’re trying to accomplish and also meets your “accountability.”
Thanks

 

[brandon429]

a little cheat in my favor/ planned/ exists because those clowns wouldn't crash in that much dilution even if you didn't add bottle bac. Having that bac and the wet sand and the time after feeding is safe by orders over.