Do commercially available bacteria supplements work?

[jda]

Fish and invert gut bacteria, the stuff that comes in on frags, snail/crab shells, etc. is going to be better than what you get in a bottle. You might even get some small worms, pods, starfish on a snail shell. Hard to replace the larger stuff that comes in rock, so keep trying or get a scoop of sand from a local reefer with an established tank - we used to give out sand to new folks like sourdough bread starts.

 

[Lebowski_]

Fish and invert gut bacteria, the stuff that comes in on frags, snail/crab shells, etc. is going to be better than what you get in a bottle. You might even get some small worms, pods, starfish on a snail shell. Hard to replace the larger stuff that comes in rock, so keep trying or get a scoop of sand from a local reefer with an established tank - we used to give out sand to new folks like sourdough bread starts.

I miss those days. I asked about getting some sand in a local group and no one replied, everyone just want euphyllia and zoa frags Different hobby these days.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I think that some of you are confusing terms. Nitrifying bacteria process ammonia and nitrite and eventually turn it into no3 - oxic or aerobic. Denitrifying bacteria turn no3 into N gas - anoxic or anaerobic.

Thank you - I just corrected my comment... I knew what I meant! Lol!

 

[Belgian Anthias]

You're missing the difference between nitrification and de- nitrification... What's commonly sold in bottles to help speed up a tank's ability to nitrify toxic ammonia has been found to be legitimate and effective (at least some brands).

Completing the nitrogen cycle is having bacteria in the system that can effectively convert nitrate back into nitrogen (aka de- nitrifiers); these are totally different from the denitrifiers and are not (as I understand it) commonly able to be "bottled".

Nitrifiers, AOB ,NOB, AOA , anammox, are autotrophs.! How much viable bacteria of these species one is able to put in a bottle ? Maybe frozen or dried or both?
if one puts alive nitrifiers in a closed bottle after a very short period of time the content of the bottle will be suitable to feed heterotrophic reducers .
After a long stay in a closed bottle, a week, a month, a year, viable bacteria are bacteria that form endospores, which are bacterial species of the genera Bacillus and Clostridium , not really the species necessary for nitrification. And of these species, only a fraction will be viable after being bottled as endospore. Bacteria that cause anthrax, botulism and tetanus are known spore formers. Known disease-causing spore formers do not occur in filters of seawater aquariums to my knowledge.

Found to be legitimate and effective? By who for who or for what?

 

[Belgian Anthias]

By work, I mean, are the bacteria viable and living, and are they useful species?

Brightwell has an entire line which does not require refrigeration - Microbackter7, Microbacter Clean, etc.

Dr. Tim famously has his line of start up and maintenance geared bacteria.

Ftitz is another one, which interestingly, seems to require the most care (most companies in Canada require overnight shipping when purchasing).

Keep it simple and have patience. Installing carrying capacity and conditioning a new setup to what is coming is much more as just introducing nitrifiers. It needs time and skills and can not be bought.

Add a live mussel, and one will have introduced all bacteria needed to start with. Maybe one can keep it alive. if you can, you are ready to add expensive life stock. Each species introduced will add its own holobiont and bacterial diversity.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

I'm interested in the use of these "live" bacteria in terms of adding biodiversity to already cycled young tanks. My concern is reducing or eliminating new tank nuisance algae and bacteria. I've used MB7, AF Lifesource, and Live Rock Enhance powder but judgeing their effects is difficult. I'm considering trying Dr Tims Eco-Balance. Anyone have any thoughts/advice?

Please define "new tank" nuisance algae and bacteria.
If one wants to start a battle one should first now everything about the enemies to be able to make a good choice about the weapons to use.
Using the most appropriate weapon to defeat the enemy.! Then one must also have knowledge of the available weapons and how they work. And what exactly is in the bottle?

I have been taught never to use or add products of which the correct composition or and content is not known and that should be stated on the packaging. I am very concerned about my expensive livestock, life for which I am responsible.

Maybe such product contains a reef safe placebo? Maybe it is just some disolved organics to stimulate heterotrophic growth ? Who knows?

 

[taricha]

And what exactly is in the bottle?

Impressed at your years-long persistence with this.

You should get your hands on a bottle of Biospira. Seriously.
Have two containers of new saltwater with1-2ppm ammonia - add a recommended dose of biospira to one of them. Aerate each. Measure ammonia, NO2, then NO3 (when NO2 clears in ~10 days or so).
You'll find that even without any carbon source, the bottled bacteria (families are printed right on the label) converts ammonia to NO2 beginning overnight - with a near 1:1 nitrogen balance between initial ammonia drop and NO2 production. Then with a few day lag behind the ammonia oxidation, NO2 will also be oxidized away to NO3.
Measuring the increase in NO3 (I have) - you'll find that the ammonia to NO3 conversion is again - nearly 1:1. This is not the behavior of heterotrophs but traditional chemoautotroph nitrifiers.

With this data in hand - then you can tell us what you actually think is in the bottle, rather than asserting in post after post for years that it's impossible.

 

[jda]

1/2 ounce of skim mate from some other persons tank would likely do the same thing... if you have a friend, local club, or whatever... get a cup of sand from them and a bit of skim mate.

 

[Aeiyr]

Impressed at your years-long persistence with this.

You should get your hands on a bottle of Biospira. Seriously.
Have two containers of new saltwater with1-2ppm ammonia - add a recommended dose of biospira to one of them. Aerate each. Measure ammonia, NO2, then NO3 (when NO2 clears in ~10 days or so).
You'll find that even without any carbon source, the bottled bacteria (families are printed right on the label) converts ammonia to NO2 beginning overnight - with a near 1:1 nitrogen balance between initial ammonia drop and NO2 production. Then with a few day lag behind the ammonia oxidation, NO2 will also be oxidized away to NO3.
Measuring the increase in NO3 (I have) - you'll find that the ammonia to NO3 conversion is again - nearly 1:1. This is not the behavior of heterotrophs but traditional chemoautotroph nitrifiers.

With this data in hand - then you can tell us what you actually think is in the bottle, rather than asserting in post after post for years

I could try for a year and I wouldn't be able to say it any better than this.

 

[Azedenkae]

You'll find that even without any carbon source, the bottled bacteria (families are printed right on the label) converts ammonia to NO2 beginning overnight - with a near 1:1 nitrogen balance between initial ammonia drop and NO2 production. Then with a few day lag behind the ammonia oxidation, NO2 will also be oxidized away to NO3.
Measuring the increase in NO3 (I have) - you'll find that the ammonia to NO3 conversion is again - nearly 1:1. This is not the behavior of heterotrophs but traditional chemoautotroph nitrifiers.

Just to clarify, ppm-wise it'll be 1 ppm ammonia to 2.7ish ppm nitrite, and 1 ppm nitrite to 1.348ish ppm nitrate. But yes, molecule-wise, 1:1.

not really the species necessary for nitrification.

Scientists have actually studied nitrifiers' resilience to starvation conditions, and found that yes, they can survive very long periods starved of their sole energy source: https://academic.oup.com/femsec/article/58/1/1/468326. That's just one article. Plenty on the subject. So there's not really any surprise that nitrifiers can easily survive in a bottle until conditions are right.

 

[taricha]

1/2 ounce of skim mate from some other persons tank would likely do the same thing... if you have a friend, local club, or whatever... get a cup of sand from them and a bit of skim mate.

True.
even the classic nitrifiers which people do not think are in the water are unavoidably transferred in tiny amounts with water. I've found repeatedly, that if I have a sterilized saltwater sample with ammonia and I add a drop of my tank water to it, I'll get ammonia->NO2->NO3 in 20-30 days. Somebody else's might be less than 4 weeks, some more. but yeah. even the desirable surface bacteria exist in some numbers in aquarium water.
But a bottle of Fritz or Biospira will start making NO2 overnight. One and only a couple of days later. So mostly it's a matter of degree. Do I have that same functional group in my water? yep and in 3-4 weeks they'll multiply enough to handle a tank load.