DIY expert plumbing help needed

[Reefacist]

Hello guys

I have been working on my 120gallon/40breeder sump forquite some time now.
finally time to PLUMB and I have a couple questions. Below are pictures of what I drew. I have been thinking about this for 2 days and I think I have FINALLY decided on the design but would love any ideas/tweaks you experts would recommend.
The drain lines are pretty simple in my thinking. I have the gate valve as low as possible which is recommend a lot and I added a ball valve to the 2nd drain just for symmetry and instead of a union. (I know it’s a bit more pricey).

My real help is needed with my returns.

1. I had bought all 3/4 tubing for the return (due to my bulkheads) then realized the varios6 has a 1.25in barb output. So I decided to buy more of the 1” red tubing for the drain and use it for the return as well. I couldn’t find a sch 80 1.25 to 1” reducing tee so I had to put couplers on both sides of the 1.25” tee. Is this look good so far?

2. The way my stand is (I bought system used but never again) the first return can only go back with that 90 turn before the bulkhead. Which I think is ok since this is the route of least resistance anyways. Plus I need a ball valve to restrict flow a little too. Now...Where should I put this ball valve? I put it higher up behind the stand and use this as the spot to reduce to the 3/4 tubing. Or should I put it right off the tee in the sump area? My concern would be flow and noise level(if this matters). Then I would just reduce the 1” to 3/4” at the top before the bulkhead I guess.

3. Just want overall feedback on manifold design and issues and more or less union placement etc...

Thank you all... @revhtree I love this site

 

[ThePlummer]

Hello guys

I have been working on my 120gallon/40breeder sump forquite some time now.
finally time to PLUMB and I have a couple questions. Below are pictures of what I drew. I have been thinking about this for 2 days and I think I have FINALLY decided on the design but would love any ideas/tweaks you experts would recommend.
The drain lines are pretty simple in my thinking. I have the gate valve as low as possible which is recommend a lot and I added a ball valve to the 2nd drain just for symmetry and instead of a union. (I know it’s a bit more pricey).

My real help is needed with my returns.

1. I had bought all 3/4 tubing for the return (due to my bulkheads) then realized the varios6 has a 1.25in barb output. So I decided to buy more of the 1” red tubing for the drain and use it for the return as well. I couldn’t find a sch 80 1.25 to 1” reducing tee so I had to put couplers on both sides of the 1.25” tee. Is this look good so far?

2. The way my stand is (I bought system used but never again) the first return can only go back with that 90 turn before the bulkhead. Which I think is ok since this is the route of least resistance anyways. Plus I need a ball valve to restrict flow a little too. Now...Where should I put this ball valve? I put it higher up behind the stand and use this as the spot to reduce to the 3/4 tubing. Or should I put it right off the tee in the sump area? My concern would be flow and noise level(if this matters). Then I would just reduce the 1” to 3/4” at the top before the bulkhead I guess.

3. Just want overall feedback on manifold design and issues and more or less union placement etc...

Thank you all... @revhtree I love this site

I would highly recommend you watch this short video, I think it will answer most of your questions. Then I'd be happy to answer any further you may have (20+ year professional plumber).

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Personally, I'm not a fan of piggy backing a manifold off of the main return pump. I find that anytime I make adjustments to flow on the manifold it effects flow throw the tank, that in turn requires adjustment of the gate valve for the bean animal or herbie overflow. And to add to the headache, most people attach reactor canisters filled with media to their manifolds in which over time clogs with debris that eventually restricts flow and in turn increases flow through the tank -- again constant adjustment to the gate valve.

I'm of the opinion that a manifold needs to be driven by it's own pump to avoid constant tweaking of the overflow.

 

[Reefacist]

I would highly recommend you watch this short video, I think it will answer most of your questions. Then I'd be happy to answer any further you may have (20+ year professional plumber).

Hey @ThePlummer...thanks for the response. Yes I have watched that video multiple times now and just watched it again in case I missed anything.

I’m still confused as to where to put the ballvalve for my return lines as far as noise and flow goes. Will it make any difference? I know they say to put the gate valve in the primary drain as low as possible but I haven’t heard anything about the return. I’m assuming it doesn’t matter then.

 

[Reefacist]

Personally, I'm not a fan of piggy backing a manifold off of the main return pump. I find that anytime I make adjustments to flow on the manifold it effects flow throw the tank, that in turn requires adjustment of the gate valve for the bean animal or herbie overflow. And to add to the headache, most people attach reactor canisters filled with media to their manifolds in which over time clogs with debris that eventually restricts flow and in turn increases flow through the tank -- again constant adjustment to the gate valve.

I'm of the opinion that a manifold needs to be driven by it's own pump to avoid constant tweaking of the overflow.

Thanks. Ya I’m contemplating the manifold too. It’s my first tank and I honestly just like the design of the manifold but don’t wanna spend another 250-300 on a pump. Maybe I can get a nice but smaller sicce and attach for the manifold only and also have a back up pump. I mean the varios6 is enough for flow not to be the issues but the dialing in the gate valve all the time will be annoying I think. May I can plumb with single pump but have unions on both sides of the manifold so if it gets annoying all I have to do is remove it and put a straight pvc in its place and then feed the manifold to a new pump. Idk just gonna order extra of everything so I can decide later

 

[Spieg]

Ideally I'd be running a DC return pump with adjustable speed to make the desired flow. When using ball valves to slow the return flow, it doesn't really matter where you put them, just needs to be accessible for making adjustments.

 

[ThePlummer]

Hey @ThePlummer...thanks for the response. Yes I have watched that video multiple times now and just watched it again in case I missed anything.

I’m still confused as to where to put the ballvalve for my return lines as far as noise and flow goes. Will it make any difference? I know they say to put the gate valve in the primary drain as low as possible but I haven’t heard anything about the return. I’m assuming it doesn’t matter then.

You shouldn't need a BV for the drains... If you and I are on the same page. The Bean animal is the 'drain' and the sump pump 'returns' the water back into the aquarium. Just for clarity's sake here.

You would only need a gate valve on your primary suction drain line, to adjust the flow to slightly less than the amount of flow the return pump volume moves in water. You wouldn't need a ball valve there, unless you are doing what I'm doing and clamping off the primary siphon drain, so I can open another ball valve to do simple water changes. (see my build thread in DIY).

On your return side, you might want a ball valve, so if you have to maintenance the pump, you can prevent a back siphon from the tank to the sump. You should never run more water in your sump, than your back siphon will suck out of the aquarium, so if you have a power failure you won't have a flood, by too much water siphoning out of the aquarium into the sump. You can mitigate that with a check valve if you have an issue there, or you can create a vacuum breaker, like I did on my build to prevent too much water from flooding the sump.

If you want a ball valve on your return, just put it as close to the pump as possible.

 

[Reefacist]

Ideally I'd be running a DC return pump with adjustable speed to make the desired flow. When using ball valves to slow the return flow, it doesn't really matter where you put them, just needs to be accessible for making adjustments.

Thanks yes its gonna be ran with RO varios6

 

[Reefacist]

You shouldn't need a BV for the drains... If you and I are on the same page. The Bean animal is the 'drain' and the sump pump 'returns' the water back into the aquarium. Just for clarity's sake here.

Yes. We are on the same page and I was thinking the same. My drains dont have ball valves. The primary has a gate valve and the secondary i put ball valve. I was gonna put a union for the secondary but i found good ball valves for like 10$ more so i was like mind as well. I wouldn't use it for anything besides checking my emergency. I think ill just use a union and save 10$

You would only need a gate valve on your primary suction drain line, to adjust the flow to slightly less than the amount of flow the return pump volume moves in water. You wouldn't need a ball valve there, unless you are doing what I'm doing and clamping off the primary siphon drain, so I can open another ball valve to do simple water changes. (see my build thread in DIY).

It was just to check the emergency.

On your return side, you might want a ball valve, so if you have to maintenance the pump, you can prevent a back siphon from the tank to the sump. You should never run more water in your sump, than your back siphon will suck out of the aquarium, so if you have a power failure you won't have a flood, by too much water siphoning out of the aquarium into the sump. You can mitigate that with a check valve if you have an issue there, or you can create a vacuum breaker, like I did on my build to prevent too much water from flooding the sump.

I have ball valves on both returns just close to where it enters the tank. I think i will put it in the sump area so i can have more control since it will be against the wall. My sump will handle the back siphon but ya i was gonna drill a hole on the locline to avoid back siphon since it can mess with the skimmer i heard.

If you want a ball valve on your return, just put it as close to the pump as possible.

I will try to. I just don't have much space above my sump in the stand.

And will def check out your build

 

[Reefacist]

@ThePlummer so I decided to use 1inch plumbing on the returns alllll the way to the 3/4 inch bulkheads. At the bulkhead I will be using a 1in to 3/4 inch reducing elbow. My question is any reason not to use a threaded return bulkhead? I will be using a thread sealant (la-co joint stic) but would be a lot nice to remove when I move.

 

[ThePlummer]

@ThePlummer so I decided to use 1inch plumbing on the returns alllll the way to the 3/4 inch bulkheads. At the bulkhead I will be using a 1in to 3/4 inch reducing elbow. My question is any reason not to use a threaded return bulkhead? I will be using a thread sealant (la-co joint stic) but would be a lot nice to remove when I move.

Threaded joints will work, however you must remember that threads are 'mechanical' in nature, and everything mechanical will eventually fail.

My preference would be to use a glue joint, as that's a chemical 'welded' bond, and when you decide to move, simply use a saw and cut the pipes where you need to, and reassemble them with a glue coupling and it's just as safe as before... Ohh, and couplings are the cheapest fittings out there.

Threaded bulkheads do have an advantage though. Usually you have a elbow right off the bulkhead, and if you glue pipe to it, you won't be able to get the bulkhead nut over the elbow, which would prevent you from ever removing the bulkhead in the first place. At least with a threaded bulkhead, you could loosen the nut one the glass, and then spin the bulkhead off the elbow, and be able to reinstall it without cutting or destroying your plumbing.

 

[Reefacist]

Threaded joints will work, however you must remember that threads are 'mechanical' in nature, and everything mechanical will eventually fail.

My preference would be to use a glue joint, as that's a chemical 'welded' bond, and when you decide to move, simply use a saw and cut the pipes where you need to, and reassemble them with a glue coupling and it's just as safe as before... Ohh, and couplings are the cheapest fittings out there.

Threaded bulkheads do have an advantage though. Usually you have a elbow right off the bulkhead, and if you glue pipe to it, you won't be able to get the bulkhead nut over the elbow, which would prevent you from ever removing the bulkhead in the first place. At least with a threaded bulkhead, you could loosen the nut one the glass, and then spin the bulkhead off the elbow, and be able to reinstall it without cutting or destroying your plumbing.

Tx

 

[Reefacist]

Threaded joints will work, however you must remember that threads are 'mechanical' in nature, and everything mechanical will eventually fail.

My preference would be to use a glue joint, as that's a chemical 'welded' bond, and when you decide to move, simply use a saw and cut the pipes where you need to, and reassemble them with a glue coupling and it's just as safe as before... Ohh, and couplings are the cheapest fittings out there.

Threaded bulkheads do have an advantage though. Usually you have a elbow right off the bulkhead, and if you glue pipe to it, you won't be able to get the bulkhead nut over the elbow, which would prevent you from ever removing the bulkhead in the first place. At least with a threaded bulkhead, you could loosen the nut one the glass, and then spin the bulkhead off the elbow, and be able to reinstall it without cutting or destroying your plumbing.

@ThePlummer another question for you. I promise it’s the last...hopefully.

If I’m going from a varios6 (1.25 barb) to 1 inch pipes. I want to keep pump efficiency as good as possible. So I was thinking

pump barb—>about a foot of 1.25 vinyl(can’t find silicone that big)—-> 1.25 elbow —->1.25 pvc pipe—> 1.25 tee—-> 1.25 to 1inch reducers on each side

would this be good at preserving the flow and efficiency? Since it’s going down to 1” piping but it’s off of a tee so technically it’s going from 1.25” of pipe diameter to two 1inch pipe diameters.

Whatya think?

 

[ThePlummer]

@ThePlummer another question for you. I promise it’s the last...hopefully.

If I’m going from a varios6 (1.25 barb) to 1 inch pipes. I want to keep pump efficiency as good as possible. So I was thinking

pump barb—>about a foot of 1.25 vinyl(can’t find silicone that big)—-> 1.25 elbow —->1.25 pvc pipe—> 1.25 tee—-> 1.25 to 1inch reducers on each side

would this be good at preserving the flow and efficiency? Since it’s going down to 1” piping but it’s off of a tee so technically it’s going from 1.25” of pipe diameter to two 1inch pipe diameters.

Whatya think?

It's the pressure side, so elbows don't matter that much, head height is the biggest hurdle to overcome.

 

[arowana718]

This my setup and plan so fad

 

[Reefacist]

This my setup and plan so fad

Is that a 1.25 braided vinyl to 3/4?
If I do a braided Y it will get more complicated for me. I think I will go 1.25 vinyl->1.25 barb—> 1.25 elbow—> sch 40 red pvc —> 1.25 tee—> reduces to 1” returns.
I also found a 1.25 tee with a built in reducer to 1 from pvcfiting

 

[Reefacist]

This my setup and plan so fad

Forgot to ask. Why the check valve by the pump? Haven’t seen that before

 

[arowana718]

Forgot to ask. Why the check valve by the pump? Haven’t seen that before

so when the pump is temp shut off for feeding or power goes out, it can prevent anti siphon

That is a 1" braided to 3/4

 

[Reefacist]

so when the pump is temp shut off for feeding or power goes out, it can prevent anti siphon

That is a 1" braided to 3/4

Oh I see but I heard bad things about those check valves. I’m just gonna make sure my sump can handle it which I’m sure it will. Since it’s a 16” high breeder and will be about half full. But I like the placement there...at least the pressure from the pump will keep it open but you have to be careful the direct pressure from the pump doesn’t damage the valve immediately and also hopefully it doesn’t restrict flow too much

 

[arowana718]

Oh I see but I heard bad things about those check valves. I’m just gonna make sure my sump can handle it which I’m sure it will. Since it’s a 16” high breeder and will be about half full. But I like the placement there...at least the pressure from the pump will keep it open but you have to be careful the direct pressure from the pump doesn’t damage the valve immediately and also hopefully it doesn’t restrict flow too much

I have lockline spray bars arms (4) that goes 4-5 inches below water line. They are adjustable.If it siphon out all that water, my sump will not handle it. Now if its on the surface, it shouldnt be an issue