Diversify the periodic addition of bacteria to avoid any dominance..

[Anxur]

Good morning reefers... I have a question.. I often read that it is not necessary or that it is not beneficial to constantly add bacteria. Ok.. But I ask you... assuming that in each aquarium, due to the different conditions, there is a different bacterial population in the number of families and strains and in the number of bacteria per family... I ask you... It's fine not to add bacteria, but is it possible that some families will be wiped out over time? Is it possible for dominance to be created? And what do these dominations cause? This is why I ask you, wouldn't it be bad every now and then, very occasionally, to add something that at least keeps the situation balanced?

 

[Dan_P]

Good morning reefers... I have a question.. I often read that it is not necessary or that it is not beneficial to constantly add bacteria. Ok.. But I ask you... assuming that in each aquarium, due to the different conditions, there is a different bacterial population in the number of families and strains and in the number of bacteria per family... I ask you... It's fine not to add bacteria, but is it possible that some families will be wiped out over time? Is it possible for dominance to be created? And what do these dominations cause? This is why I ask you, wouldn't it be bad every now and then, very occasionally, to add something that at least keeps the situation balanced?

For me, I cannot adjust what I cannot see or measure, nor should I adjust when I do not know whether adjusting is good or bad. On top of that notion, a bacteria population makeup is very complex. It depends on dozens of abiotic factors and an impossibly complex network of interactions between species which makes any attempt to affect the ecology impossible. It seems to me bacteria additions still make no sense and the proposed benefits are an illusion.

 

[Anxur]

For me, I cannot adjust what I cannot see or measure, nor should I adjust when I do not know whether adjusting is good or bad. On top of that notion, a bacteria population makeup is very complex. It depends on dozens of abiotic factors and an impossibly complex network of interactions between species which makes any attempt to affect the ecology impossible. It seems to me bacteria additions still make no sense and the proposed benefits are an illusion.

The bacterial population transforms over time. It's not about being able to measure. The population certainly suffers domination, deaths... There will be cornered stumps and stumps that thrive. Every now and then replenish some strains, with bacteria, water from another tank or rocks, cuttings etc... In my opinion it helps..

 

[Dan_P]

The bacterial population transforms over time. It's not about being able to measure. The population certainly suffers domination, deaths... There will be cornered stumps and stumps that thrive. Every now and then replenish some strains, with bacteria, water from another tank or rocks, cuttings etc... In my opinion it helps..

How does it help? What is measured to support your opinion?

 

[Dburr1014]

Good morning reefers... I have a question.. I often read that it is not necessary or that it is not beneficial to constantly add bacteria. Ok.. But I ask you... assuming that in each aquarium, due to the different conditions, there is a different bacterial population in the number of families and strains and in the number of bacteria per family... I ask you... It's fine not to add bacteria, but is it possible that some families will be wiped out over time? Is it possible for dominance to be created? And what do these dominations cause? This is why I ask you, wouldn't it be bad every now and then, very occasionally, to add something that at least keeps the situation balanced?

Everything you add to you system from another system will add different strains or different ratios of those strains that may or may not be different than what is in your system.

It's very complex.

 

[silent1mezzo]

If you want to spend the money, adding bacteria from a well known brand won't hurt. I agree with Dan in it's not something you can measure so it's just a likely a waste of money as it is helpful.

 

[GARRIGA]

Survival of the fittest in any environment means constantly adding that not able to survive is futile yet not knowing what’s futile means it can’t hurt yet no facts will support it did. Meaning that established will replicate without further assistance from us yet that we keep adding won’t likely help and no way of knowing it didn’t.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is certainly true that adding different strand of bacteria will be constantly nudging the population and may possibly add strains that eventually dominate.

The question for me is how and why that would be beneficial. I don’t see much rationale for that, unless the current strains are pests (cyano) or pathogenic in some way.

 

[Anxur]

It is certainly true that adding different strand of bacteria will be constantly nudging the population and may possibly add strains that eventually dominate.

The question for me is how and why that would be beneficial. I don’t see much rationale for that, unless the current strains are pests (cyano) or pathogenic in some way.

It is precisely by keeping multiple strains present and alive that dominance is not caused...
No?

 

[Anxur]

If you want to spend the money, adding bacteria from a well known brand won't hurt. I agree with Dan in it's not something you can measure so it's just a likely a waste of money as it is helpful.

I could tell you: "the fact that it is not measurable does not exclude the fact that adding various bacterial strains is beneficial" Whether they come from bottles or vials of bacteria or whether they come from new cuttings, water from another aquarium or new live rocks..

 

[Anxur]

Everything you add to you system from another system will add different strains or different ratios of those strains that may or may not be different than what is in your system.

It's very complex.

If you don't add different bacteria every now and then, dominance will surely arise. That's for sure.. The law of the strongest...

 

[Dburr1014]

If you don't add different bacteria every now and then, dominance will surely arise. That's for sure.. The law of the strongest...

Agreed on a particular surface. I think that a lot of bacteria grow in a lot of different surfaces some dominate certain surfaces and others dominate other surfaces. Some may mingle between surfaces. Example: glass, plastic, rock, deep inside rock. All different.

 

[Anxur]

How does it help? What is measured to support your opinion?

I'm speaking to confront you... As time passes, some families will surely supplant others.. It's a given.. So maybe every now and then a reset or an addition, I don't think it would hurt, on the contrary...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It is precisely by keeping multiple strains present and alive that dominance is not caused...
No?

Who cares?

Folks pushing bacterial diversity and additions are not able to point to any functional benefit, IMO, just diversity for diversity sake.

 

[Reefering1]

I personally would like the "Good bacteria" to be dominant. If constantly rebalancing populations, hope do you know you're not slowing that from happening...

 

[Pistondog]

Maybe better to create the environment that fosters non pathogenic bacteria. Read/watch @Timfish microbe links.
Post in thread 'Are water changes over rated?' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/are-water-changes-over-rated.1049872/post-12492196

For example excessive algea creates an environment for less desireable.coral conditions.

 

[TokenReefer]

The aquabiomics is interesting. Listening to a bunch lately on it; they still don't know enough imo. They need more data to say which strains are beneficial or harmful, etc. Recently identified palagic bacteracea as being used by acropora but not the strain. Vibrio detectable but not the strain (harmful or not). Interesting but not in a state to take action on. If you were do the tests as you added bacteria to see how the biome was altered I could see some use but it would just be out of curiosity at the moment

 

[djf91]

I used to be of the belief that you want as much bacterial diversity as possible. What seems more true now is that you want a specific stratification of bacteria mirroring what you would see on a wild coral reef, and that may mean only a handful of species with one species being in higher numbers than others, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I think I’ve read that species is typically Pelagibacter.

I also don’t think regularly adding small additions of bacteria to an established system does anything. It would take a large ecological disturbance to give another species the foot in the door to outcompete an already established bacterial community.

My ideal situation would be adding pacific live rock to a new aquarium and letting the microbial community figure itself out for 6 months. This is what we used to do back in the day and it seemed to create the healthiest reef aquariums.

 

[Dan_P]

I'm speaking to confront you... As time passes, some families will surely supplant others.. It's a given.. So maybe every now and then a reset or an addition, I don't think it would hurt, on the contrary...

So, what you say is generally true. The issue I have is there is no way that you know which bacteria species populations are changing, why they are changing, whether the bacteria you add actually grow, nor whether it matters if they do grow.

The notion of a reset is likely an impossibility while the benefit for adding bacteria to an established biofilm lacks scientific support. Vendors selling bacteria in bottle provide no supporting data for adding their bacteria beyond the extravagant claims on bottle. I agree it probably won’t do any harm except being a waste of money.

 

[GARRIGA]

Adding live sand which can be changed out occasionally better than bacteria in a bottle. Speaking of that such as from Tampa bay live rock and not bagged sand. No clue where that came from or what is still alive but have faith that from Tampa bay likely still full of life. Especially after speaking to them and noticed Ryan referenced such at RAP NY. Perhaps the best blind seeding approach