dissatisfied with skimmer...let's talk filtration options for a LPS tank.

[Devaji]

TLDR skimmers not works great replace or go with ATS as main filtration.

the long and short of it. I set up a RS 300Xl to be a seahorse tank. I beefed up the filtration with
UV, way over sized skimmer, have a reef mat but dont use it.

got a bunch of macro algae in, tank looged great for months but was having problems sorcing all female SH so decided to just to a LPS reef focusing on meats and torchs/frogspawn

the macros melted duping a ton of N&P in to the tank. had algae issues ever since been 6 months now.

anyway i dont like my coral box skimmer just don't feel it right for this system. maybe it's to big IDK but just not skimming right. just produces junk in the neck cup. the bubbles are no where near and nice as other skimmers I have had. yes I have played around with it.

plumbed in the reef mat but ran without fleece for months just took it out of the tank,for some reason I dont want to use it. maybe its being tied to rolls of fleece? silly for me to buy it but not use it but here we are. feels to big and bulky. IDK

here is where I am at:
option 1
sale the reef mat and skimmer and go full ATS! for some reason I love this idea. always been a huge fan of them. I have the icecap pro medium on my FOWLR along with a great reef otco. skimmer tanks looks great!

option 2:
replace the coral box skimmer with the reef octo int. regal 200 SSS skimer and cal it a day. the reef ocots always do a great job.

IDK just thinking out loud here I know more people use the classic skimmer and filter socks and it works.

and then there are other that use ATS only for there filtration...

both work just got to decide on what way I want to go...so I thought I would talk to other reefers here.

TLDR skimmers not works great replace or go with ATS as man filtration.

 

[Formulator]

Take a look at @VintageReefer ’s build thread. He has a gorgeous collection of LPS and IIRC he uses zero mechanical filtration.

 

[Devaji]

Take a look at @VintageReefer ’s build thread. He has a gorgeous collection of LPS and IIRC he uses zero mechanical filtration.

yes I have. very inspiring right?

 

[csund]

Another skimmer option is the Tunze 9410 dc. It's an excellent smaller skimmer. A little flimsier than we're used to but the cup (and neck) lift out, no need to turn the skimmer off. Super easy to clean.

 

[Devaji]

Another skimmer option is the Tunze 9410 dc. It's an excellent smaller skimmer. A little flimsier than we're used to but the cup (and neck) lift out, no need to turn the skimmer off. Super easy to clean.

to be honest I am hesitant to try other skimmers other than RO. every time I do I am sad.

 

[RedReefer]

Reef Octopus

 

[BriansBrain]

Just a couple of my opinions and experiences. I’ve tried replacing my filtration on my sps tank with a ATS. Scrubbers work well, but if it’s going under the tank in the stand, especially a Red Sea 300, it’s a PITA. They’re very bulky, awkward to mount, require more regular maintenance and suck traces up. I sold mine within a year and went back to mesh socks and a octo skimmer. It might be a different story if I had a fish room and the ATS could sit on a shelf or something.

I also have a LPS 60 cube that has been running about 3 years with the skimmer off. I only turn it on if the nutrients raise up or I do some fragging. Just some mesh socks for filtration.

the cool thing about this hobby is there are tons of ways of running a tank, I just like to keep things simple.

 

[VintageReefer]

Get an ats that’s easy to install and easy to use. Can’t reccomend one higher than the surf series from @SantaMonica i harvest this in 10 seconds or less. Super easy and installation couldn’t get easier. It’s a box. That floats. And you connect a dual outlet air pump to it. And a timer for the lights. No plumbing. No risk of leaking. And it doesn’t trap detritus because it’s an enclosed box. This has been my primary filtration on any reef I’ve run in this 75g tank for 10 years.

@exnisstech and several others have taken my recommendation and are very happy with it

I stopped my skimmer over a year ago. I’ve never used socks or rollers or mech filtration in 20+ years of reefing

There’s lots of ways to do things but pick something and stick with it

I keep a lot of lps and many are more difficult species and even threw some sticks in

Remove lid. Grab whatever comes out in a handful (it’s not slimy, it’s plasticky feeling). Toss in trash. Done

 

[BriansBrain]

@VintageReefer thats a scrubber I can get behind. Can you share more pics/info? The big box style ones plumbed in weren’t for me

* never mind found it

 

[Formulator]

Get an ats that’s easy to install and easy to use. Can’t reccomend one higher than the surf series from @SantaMonica i harvest this in 10 seconds or less. Super easy and installation couldn’t get easier. It’s a box. That floats. And you connect a dual outlet air pump to it. And a timer for the lights. No plumbing. No risk of leaking. And it doesn’t trap detritus because it’s an enclosed box. This has been my primary filtration on any reef I’ve run in this 75g tank for 10 years.

@exnisstech and several others have taken my recommendation and are very happy with it

I stopped my skimmer over a year ago. I’ve never used socks or rollers or mech filtration in 20+ years of reefing

There’s lots of ways to do things but pick something and stick with it

I keep a lot of lps and many are more difficult species and even threw some sticks in

Remove lid. Grab whatever comes out in a handful (it’s not slimy, it’s plasticky feeling). Toss in trash. Done

Wow, you could start a biodiesel refinery with all that green stuff!

 

[exnisstech]

More a mixed reef than LPS but this tank started 6 months ago with just socks and an ATS. Livestock came from a tear down but display was all dry rock. I never had any nuisance algae.

Tangs are loving it. I reach in a grab a small handful 5-6 times a day.

No ATS here but no skimmer either. Just a fleece roller.

 

[VintageReefer]

Santa Monica is imo the best player in the game for scrubbers. The surf is my favorite. I would put one on every tank lol. I bought it 11 years ago and it’s been a game changer for me. I’ve eliminated water changes (results may vary depending on overstocking), I’ve eliminated my skimmer. I’ve eliminated display algae issues. I’ve corrected phosphate bound rock.

I just had my first issue…my 11 year old scrubber don’t float like it used to. I inspected and after 11 years it appears worms chewed holes in my foam and now live in them. I dipped the foam and killed them. But alas. The holes and tunnels are present and the unit is about 1” lower than it should be in the water.

I called SM. Need new foam surround. 15$ and a bottle of aquarium silicone is all that’s needed. No price gouging. And. When i bought this scrubber it was $350. Did the price go up due to supply chain bs like others milk us for? No. It’s come down. Now it’s $300. A one time investement I made 11 years ago that has been running daily since and the only thing that broke (on its own) was a piece of foam. No filters or media to constantly change or replace. Nothing. It’s a self sustaining living filter

It floats in my former fuge compartment

New foam. Waiting on silicone to arrive. Apparantly the stuff I have is “dangerous” and I was told not to use it and buy something “aquarium safe” and without “mold inhibitors”. Ok no prob. 6$ shipped. Done

 

[traumamed]

A skimmer and ATS are not mutually exclusive. They perform complementary functions.

For LPS health, nutrient control isn't all that important. I've seen tanks with nitrate/phosphate through the roof, bad GHA, dino outbreaks, cyano, etc, and as long as the Ca/Mg/alk is up, the LPS truck right on through it. Doesn't make for a very pretty tank though.

Maybe your skimmer isn't pulling much because there isn't much to pull. Is there anything aside from LPS in the tank, and if not, do you add coral food? As I am sure you already know, a skimmer does nothing for nitrates and phosphates that are already in the water. The point of a skimmer is to pull detritus before it decays into N&P.

For the N&P problem it sounds like you already have (you didn't say your parameters), you need a different strategy. An ATS is great for that, but takes time and you have to keep trace elements from being depleted for optimal effectiveness. Carbon dosing is another option, but you already seem to favor ATS and have a good scrubber in place. Maybe run some GFO if you need to get the phos down more quickly. Water changes can help get nitrates down while you wait for the ATS to kick into high gear.

I suppose if you are going to house nothing but coral and are going to keep supplemental feedings to a minimum, then you could probably get away without a skimmer. Would I do it? No, not personally. Beyond just pulling detritus before it decays, a skimmer is a first line of defense against organics in the water, and helps keep water well-oxygenated.

 

[VintageReefer]

A skimmer and ATS are not mutually exclusive. They perform complementary functions.

For LPS health, nutrient control isn't all that important. I've seen tanks with nitrate/phosphate through the roof, bad GHA, dino outbreaks, cyano, etc, and as long as the Ca/Mg/alk is up, the LPS truck right on through it. Doesn't make for a very pretty tank though.

Maybe your skimmer isn't pulling much because there isn't much to pull. Is there anything aside from LPS in the tank, and if not, do you add coral food? As I am sure you already know, a skimmer does nothing for nitrates and phosphates that are already in the water. The point of a skimmer is to pull detritus before it decays into N&P.

For the N&P problem it sounds like you already have (you didn't say your parameters), you need a different strategy. An ATS is great for that, but takes time and you have to keep trace elements from being depleted for optimal effectiveness. Carbon dosing is another option, but you already seem to favor ATS and have a good scrubber in place. Maybe run some GFO if you need to get the phos down more quickly. Water changes can help get nitrates down while you wait for the ATS to kick into high gear.

I suppose if you are going to house nothing but coral and are going to keep supplemental feedings to a minimum, then you could probably get away without a skimmer. Would I do it? No, not personally. Beyond just pulling detritus before it decays, a skimmer is a first line of defense against organics in the water, and helps keep water well-oxygenated.

I agree with most of the above

I do think skimmers are important and have their place. I do have a skimmer connected to my system. I’ve run one for 8-9 years on this tank. Reef Octopus Diablo 160xs. It’s a great skimmer.

I’m not overstocked. I have 7 fish, 3 of which are heavy eaters. And I have a TON of coral and I both target feed and broadcast feed almost daily.

The scrubber handles all my filtration and keeps the tank parameters good

Skimmers and Scrubbers do work differently as mentioned above. The main thing is a scrubber will directly absorb and remove nitrate and phosphate from the water. Skimmers help prevent them from forming. My logic is I would rather have them form, let the corals get what they need from the water column, and the scrubber removes the excess n and p

It’s completely tunable. Want lower numbers ? Run the scrubber leds longer. Are you bottoming out or at risk? Reduce the led duration.

If I was overstocked on fish, or if the scrubber had trouble keeping up, I wouldn’t hesitate to run my skimmer or recommend one. Another tool in the belt.

Oxygenation is a moot point for the surf (unlike other scrubbers) because it uses a high power air pump running 24x7

I do dose manganese daily. Macro and Goni are consumers of it, and I have 25 Goni plus a scrubber. So I use manganese. I have historically maintained trace + alk + Ca with all for reef. No complaints

I just setup an auto alkalinity monitoring / dosing system so I don’t need all for reef anymore. Just calcium and trace. Working out a new process still. Seachem Fusion for calcium and trace but I don’t think it’s as much trace as all for reef has.

 

[traumamed]

Skimmers and Scrubbers do work differently as mentioned above. The main thing is a scrubber will directly absorb and remove nitrate and phosphate from the water. Skimmers help prevent them from forming. My logic is I would rather have them form, let the corals get what they need from the water column, and the scrubber removes the excess n and p

Yes, that's the trick with a coral-only tank. Like you, my reef includes fish. That means twice-daily feedings, fish poop, etc. In a way, it makes it easier to manage, because we already know there is enough of a nutrient input that our N&P are basically never going to get to zero - certainly not from just the action of a mechanical filtration (i.e. sock/mat) plus skimmer pulling detritus and uneaten food before it decays.

No fish = way lower nutrient import. I've never run a coral-only setup, so I don't claim a lot of expertise... but I would still say that the benefits of having a skimmer outweigh the risk of potentially nutrient-starving a tank. That risk could be mitigated by skimming particularly dry, running a looser pre-filter, and/or reducing the amount of water skimmed by utilizing a bypass strategy such that the skimmer doesn't contact 100% of water through every filtration pass.

 

[Devaji]

Just a couple of my opinions and experiences. I’ve tried replacing my filtration on my sps tank with a ATS. Scrubbers work well, but if it’s going under the tank in the stand, especially a Red Sea 300, it’s a PITA. They’re very bulky, awkward to mount, require more regular maintenance and suck traces up. I sold mine within a year and went back to mesh socks and a octo skimmer. It might be a different story if I had a fish room and the ATS could sit on a shelf or something.

I also have a LPS 60 cube that has been running about 3 years with the skimmer off. I only turn it on if the nutrients raise up or I do some fragging. Just some mesh socks for filtration.

the cool thing about this hobby is there are tons of ways of running a tank, I just like to keep things simple.

beautiful tank!

I have the icecap pro medium on my Im 200 pen. it's under the tank it take about 1 min. to get the screen out of the box then walk to the sink scrape it off then maybe 1 min to reattach it. so not to bad.

why I went with the icecap for that tank was it has it own stand so PNP

but yes you are 100% right there are many many was to reef. something I find very beautiful yet frustrating at the same time.

 

[Devaji]

Get an ats that’s easy to install and easy to use. Can’t reccomend one higher than the surf series from @SantaMonica i harvest this in 10 seconds or less. Super easy and installation couldn’t get easier. It’s a box. That floats. And you connect a dual outlet air pump to it. And a timer for the lights. No plumbing. No risk of leaking. And it doesn’t trap detritus because it’s an enclosed box. This has been my primary filtration on any reef I’ve run in this 75g tank for 10 years.

@exnisstech and several others have taken my recommendation and are very happy with it

I stopped my skimmer over a year ago. I’ve never used socks or rollers or mech filtration in 20+ years of reefing

There’s lots of ways to do things but pick something and stick with it

I keep a lot of lps and many are more difficult species and even threw some sticks in

Remove lid. Grab whatever comes out in a handful (it’s not slimy, it’s plasticky feeling). Toss in trash. Done

always nice to see you tank! we talked when I was thinking about the ATS for the FOLWR
ended up going with the Icacap pro medium its been up and running for 6-8 weeks harvested 2X so far. not the truf algae yet but very nice harvest of hair algae. alot.

what size is your tank again? 75 or 120?

one reason i went with a waterfall scrubber as I did not want the noise of the air pump. the reef is right behind the bedroom wall where out headboard is.

not apposed to the surf for this one but noise is an issue for sure.

are you using the surf 2, 2x or 2XX?

 

[Devaji]

very nice tan

More a mixed reef than LPS but this tank started 6 months ago with just socks and an ATS. Livestock came from a tear down but display was all dry rock. I never had any nuisance algae.

Tangs are loving it. I reach in a grab a small handful 5-6 times a day.

No ATS here but no skimmer either. Just a fleece roller.

very nice tanks!!
look at the delicious LR in the sump. wower...haha
did you seed the ATS or just let the turf grow?

with the one on my larger tank Fish only i did seed it with some GHA from the smaller tank.

 

[VintageReefer]

75g
25g sump
Surf 2 (when I bought they didn’t have a 2x)

Noise is non issue if you get a decent air pump. I’ve owned lots of air pumps. They last about 2-4 years. Anything petco is crap and noisy. Whisper. Sheesh

They make quiet air pumps. Mines silent as long as nothing is leaning on it. A wire or power brick falls on it? Bzzzzzzzzzz. Move it off, silent

Can not hear it with cabinet doors shut. And with them open I have to get next to it. It absolutely is way quieter than my octopus skimmer, when / if I run it.

My current air pump is made from Oase. This is the company eheim uses to rebrand under the eheim name. Same exact thing just 5-10$ cheaper

 

[VintageReefer]

very nice tan

very nice tanks!!
look at the delicious LR in the sump. wower...haha
did you seed the ATS or just let the turf grow?

with the one on my larger tank Fish only i did seed it with some GHA from the smaller tank.

You can’t really seed a scrubber. It will grow turf on its own after a few weeks