Dinoflagellates - What I learned over the years to deal with it

[ScottB]

I really like this thread but I keep seeing comments about carbon dosing and bacteria dosing. What kind of bacteria are we talking about, I agree that diversity helps but most of what I see out there are nitrifying bacteria and just not sure that is what we want. Really would like more insight and information into the carbon/bacteria dosing side of things.

Thanks

WRT bacteria dosing, I hear you. Not many of us (me included) really have a good grasp on what is in all these bottles. I regard them all as just nitrifiers. I will include a link to a study thread and maybe you can draw some conclusions.

Looking for the Magic in Bottled Bacteria (and in our tanks)

The purpose of this thread is to try to measure and understand how bottled bacteria might work in our tanks. Not the cyclers / nitrifiers - that's well covered here (bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact). I'm talking about the bacteria that are meant to help with digestion and breakdown of food...

www.reef2reef.com

I think of @taricha and @flampton as the forum thought leaders on the subject.

I prefer various live rock sources for my bacterial diversity.

As to carbon dosing there are many with more experience than me. I have done it over the years. It always seems to bring down nitrates and not PO4 (for me). The result is my nutrients get out of whack with each other and I get cyano for a couple months.

*edit. Just saw @Reef and Dive post so I need to go read up on Redfield I guess.

 

[bishoptf]

Carbon usage is not restricted to nitrifying bacteria.

We are talking here about saprophytic bacteria. They also take advantage of carbon dosing to multiply, so this is why I advocate carbon dosing together with this type of bacteria.

This thread I posted long ago can provide even better insight on the role of carbon:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/redfield-ratio-revisited-–-what-are-we-doing-wrong.742503/

Understand but that is my point, probably because I am a newbie but is there a source of saprophytic bacteria that you can add or do they already exist in your tank and multiply when you have a carbon source? What I am trying to understand is how would one dose saprophytic bacteria?

Just trying to understand, thanks.

 

[bishoptf]

WRT bacteria dosing, I hear you. Not many of us (me included) really have a good grasp on what is in all these bottles. I regard them all as just nitrifiers. I will include a link to a study thread and maybe you can draw some conclusions.

Looking for the Magic in Bottled Bacteria (and in our tanks)

The purpose of this thread is to try to measure and understand how bottled bacteria might work in our tanks. Not the cyclers / nitrifiers - that's well covered here (bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact). I'm talking about the bacteria that are meant to help with digestion and breakdown of food...

www.reef2reef.com

I think of @taricha and @flampton as the forum thought leaders on the subject.

I prefer various live rock sources for my bacterial diversity.

As to carbon dosing there are many with more experience than me. I have done it over the years. It always seems to bring down nitrates and not PO4 (for me). The result is my nutrients get out of whack with each other and I get cyano for a couple months.

*edit. Just saw @Reef and Dive post so I need to go read up on Redfield I guess.

I did add some KP live rock but when you say other sources what else do you trust and go with. The main issue I have with live rock is then you are messing with all of the hitchhikers that come along with it, always something. Just wanting to get more information about who are you using for live rock etc, LFS or other.

Thanks

 

[ScottB]

I did add some KP live rock but when you say other sources what else do you trust and go with. The main issue I have with live rock is then you are messing with all of the hitchhikers that come along with it, always something. Just wanting to get more information about who are you using for live rock etc, LFS or other.

Thanks

The three Florida sources are all good IMO. I tend to keep them in a lighted, flowing, heated vat for a while to assess what is in/on the rock.

I have also started with LFS rock several times without any pest issues. It is always sump rock so much less likely to have any aiptasia

 

[Reef and Dive]

Understand but that is my point, probably because I am a newbie but is there a source of saprophytic bacteria that you can add or do they already exist in your tank and multiply when you have a carbon source? What I am trying to understand is how would one dose saprophytic bacteria?

Just trying to understand, thanks.

Yes. Many bacterial products have specific groups of saprophytic bacteria, eg: Dr Tim Waste Away, Live rock enhance, Fauna Rebiotic, Special Blend, Pristine, MB7 etc…

Most bacteria are not actually cultivated by those companies, they actually select specific bacteria cultivated for specific purposes from mass bacteria production industries.

 

[iLMaRiO]

oooooooooooook guys, I have A LOT of dino in my 1y old tank (never started properly, I would like to fix it).

430liters net (more or less)
po4: 0.04
no3: 0.75
si02 (RODI water): 0.29ppm

tried raising temp to 29°C: nothing changed
tried Dinoxal (it's not Dino X): nothing changed. I'm at day 5 of dosing
tried Cyano RX: nothing changed
i'll try Dino X from Fauna today, let's see

i'm trying, from yesterday, 250g of rowaphos, trying to lower po4 and si02 even more.

Any other idea ? Should I buy a microscope and check the dino type ? an UV lamp (55w) would fix ?

 

[bishoptf]

oooooooooooook guys, I have A LOT of dino in my 1y old tank (never started properly, I would like to fix it).

430liters net (more or less)
po4: 0.04
no3: 0.75
si02 (RODI water): 0.29ppm

tried raising temp to 29°C: nothing changed
tried Dinoxal (it's not Dino X): nothing changed. I'm at day 5 of dosing
tried Cyano RX: nothing changed
i'll try Dino X from Fauna today, let's see

i'm trying, from yesterday, 250g of rowaphos, trying to lower po4 and si02 even more.

Any other idea ? Should I buy a microscope and check the dino type ? an UV lamp (55w) would fix ?

I think you would be better served to go to the other Dino thread where there are more people to help you...

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Yeah that was my first thought. It’s very sticky though l. And I only know cyano as strings under the microscope instead of swimming transforming objects o_O Agree. @taricha should be along at some point. I imagine he has seen those buggers before.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Reef and Dive]

oooooooooooook guys, I have A LOT of dino in my 1y old tank (never started properly, I would like to fix it).

430liters net (more or less)
po4: 0.04
no3: 0.75
si02 (RODI water): 0.29ppm

tried raising temp to 29°C: nothing changed
tried Dinoxal (it's not Dino X): nothing changed. I'm at day 5 of dosing
tried Cyano RX: nothing changed
i'll try Dino X from Fauna today, let's see

i'm trying, from yesterday, 250g of rowaphos, trying to lower po4 and si02 even more.

Any other idea ? Should I buy a microscope and check the dino type ? an UV lamp (55w) would fix ?

Do you have pictures? And yes a microscopic image would help a lot.

 

[Reef and Dive]

I think you would be better served to go to the other Dino thread where there are more people to help you...

Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Yeah that was my first thought. It’s very sticky though l. And I only know cyano as strings under the microscope instead of swimming transforming objects o_O Agree. @taricha should be along at some point. I imagine he has seen those buggers before.

www.reef2reef.com

Yeah this topic is the best. A lot of people together, a lot of people who have studied dinos and dealt with it many times. And even a historical archive of cases.

 

[iLMaRiO]

Do you have pictures? And yes a microscopic image would help a lot.

yes, posted in other Dino thread

 

[Asagi]

I read all that. And from what I read, there is no solution? LOL

 

[Reef and Dive]

I read all that. And from what I read, there is no solution? LOL

To make it simple:

Ostreopsidaceae = UV, second and third option - UV

Non-Ostreopsidaceae = multiple options that helps but no absolute solution, most important is not to nuke the corals while trying to treat.

 

[Mikeltee]

I read all that. And from what I read, there is no solution? LOL

There is. It takes a lot of time and your chances are much better if you start addressing it the day that you start to see bubbles. 90% of the time, UV isn't going to help. Silicates is the way, along with daily disruption so that they can't take hold. If you let it go to where you have long strands on most of your rock and your coral starts to die, you probably aren't going to beat it. Most people get dinos nowadays. It's just something we have to deal with when we start a tank. Once the coralline sets in, you have to do something stupid to let them propogate.

 

[Asagi]

There is. It takes a lot of time and your chances are much better if you start addressing it the day that you start to see bubbles. 90% of the time, UV isn't going to help. Silicates is the way, along with daily disruption so that they can't take hold. If you let it go to where you have long strands on most of your rock and your coral starts to die, you probably aren't going to beat it. Most people get dinos nowadays. It's just something we have to deal with when we start a tank. Once the coralline sets in, you have to do something stupid to let them propogate.

I swapped out all my sump rock for a different rock and now have an outbreak. I’ve always just waited it out in the past. Manual removal was about all I ever did and eventually is corrected itself. I’d have a hard time dosing anything worried about hurting the livestock.

 

[ScottB]

I swapped out all my sump rock for a different rock and now have an outbreak. I’ve always just waited it out in the past. Manual removal was about all I ever did and eventually is corrected itself. I’d have a hard time dosing anything worried about hurting the livestock.

Not that you asked, but my speculation:
That old sump rock had some amount of phosphate saturation. The new rock had little/no phosphate saturation, so it bound whatever phosphate was in the water. No phosphate is the most popular dino trigger. Test your PO4 with a Hanna ULR. Dose accordingly.

 

[Asagi]

I've had this stuff for a while, looks to be expired, but im gonna try it.

Reef Blueprint - Phosph8

Reef Blueprint - Phosph8

www.aquaholicaquaculture.com

I'm gonna try it without even testing.

Wish me luck boys

 

[bishoptf]

I've had this stuff for a while, looks to be expired, but im gonna try it.

Reef Blueprint - Phosph8

Reef Blueprint - Phosph8

www.aquaholicaquaculture.com

I'm gonna try it without even testing.

Wish me luck boys

Probably be fine phosphate is pretty easy to make up and it doesnt go bad. I would dose half strength to start and take a reading just to get a feel for its strength.

 

[Asagi]

There is. It takes a lot of time and your chances are much better if you start addressing it the day that you start to see bubbles. 90% of the time, UV isn't going to help. Silicates is the way, along with daily disruption so that they can't take hold. If you let it go to where you have long strands on most of your rock and your coral starts to die, you probably aren't going to beat it. Most people get dinos nowadays. It's just something we have to deal with when we start a tank. Once the coralline sets in, you have to do something stupid to let them propogate.

Hey my dad is in Fishers. you poor soul. JK!!!!

 

[Asagi]

Probably be fine phosphate is pretty easy to make up and it doesnt go bad. I would dose half strength to start and take a reading just to get a feel for its strength.

nah man, full strength!

 

[Asagi]

oh my word.

I went to dose the phosphate with my handy dandy syringe and clumsily dropped the syringe into the bottle.

Scrambling like a madman, I spilled the expired tonic all of my shoes and slacks.

Some even slashed onto my glasses and a little went in my mouth.

You guys think ill be alright?

Heavens.