Dinoflagellates my experience......h2o2 reefing tool!!!!!

[cagdason]

Fauna Marin Ultra Algae X

Well I used H2O2 twice in my tank one was total loss noting changed after I turned the lights on the Dyno came back. Second time I also add MB7 and that helped I was dyno free for 3 months. Till I change my light and they were back. This time I tried Fauna Marin Ultra Algae X the lights were on unlike the other two tries and after the 3rd dose I am dyno free. Lights are on so I am quite happy what I see. I will keep doseing for an other few dose then will stop and see if they come back.

 

[lofty78]

Okay, So I have been dosing 10ml per day since 4-17 and I am just floored at how clear the glass... I did a chemi pure treatment on the same day I started to get rid of Cyano and did the required 20% water change 2 days later... 19th... but I have to say, I have never seen my tank this clear. The glass, the water, the rocks....(there's still some hair algae, but it doesn't seem out of control... I did pull some out and some went free floating but it has not grown at all) I to belive that my Monti got bleached out due to the higher ORA (I can't test, but it is visibly better than before) but the monty was bleached to begin with... T think this finished off thet part of it... the other side however is starting to color up now and looks like it could recover. I am going to start dosing buffered Vitamin C when it comes from Marine Dept (Brightwell) as well. This should help get my zoas looking like they once did... along with boosting my magnesium levels (currently 1350, but I understand that Zoas like higher Mag) So far, I am sold... its like I trade in my low def fish dank for a high def fish tank

 

[alberthiel]

Okay, So I have been dosing 10ml per day since 4-17 and I am just floored at how clear the glass... I did a chemi pure treatment on the same day I started to get rid of Cyano and did the required 20% water change 2 days later... 19th... but I have to say, I have never seen my tank this clear. The glass, the water, the rocks....(there's still some hair algae, but it doesn't seem out of control... I did pull some out and some went free floating but it has not grown at all) I to belive that my Monti got bleached out due to the higher ORA (I can't test, but it is visibly better than before) but the monty was bleached to begin with... T think this finished off thet part of it... the other side however is starting to color up now and looks like it could recover. I am going to start dosing buffered Vitamin C when it comes from Marine Dept (Brightwell) as well. This should help get my zoas looking like they once did... along with boosting my magnesium levels (currently 1350, but I understand that Zoas like higher Mag) So far, I am sold... its like I trade in my low def fish dank for a high def fish tank

That is great indeed ... and I guess you used ChemiClean right ... Those are the results that have been reported by may who have used the ChemiClean and maybe used some H2O2 as well, or use an Oxydator (to increase oxygen levels in the tank). Thanks for reporting your experience and the positive outcome. ! NICE !

 

[shred5]

That is great indeed ... and I guess you used ChemiClean right ... Those are the results that have been reported by may who have used the ChemiClean and maybe used some H2O2 as well, or use an Oxydator (to increase oxygen levels in the tank). Thanks for reporting your experience and the positive outcome. ! NICE !

Albert its anecdotal. He has done so many things it hard to determine what he did to rid his aquarium of that.

I don't know if you remember from maybe 15 to 20 years ago, I dont remember the exact time but I brought up dinoflagellates on fish net and I had been working with John Tullock, Bob Bob Goeman, and a local biologist.. A little with Julian but we wont talk about that, raise the ph? LOL that is actually where that whole raise the ph started.

Anyway you suggested Potassium permanganate I believe and you had a product called redox plus at the time to try.. I actually think I still have some of the stuff..
How is Potassium permanganate any different than adding peroxide really they both oxidize things in the water column...

By the way it is good to see you involved with the hobby again.

 

[lofty78]

I have had to use chemiclean about a month prior and never got anything near this success... mostly, just got rid of the cyano. The water change is a necessary part of the chemi clean regimen, but I was in need of one as well... I do agree, though, its impossible to know exactly what had produced the results I am getting now, however, I have seen no real i'll effects other than the increased bleaching of the Monti which was already having problems, however, The part that is improving, is improving dramatically. I'm considering removing the rest of the piece as it is collecting fish wast that I need to blow off regularly... I do thing I need more flow in the area which could be done just by cleaning my powerheads, I just have been delaying that as I had mistakenly zip tied everything together and I don't have the time to fish them out of the power center at the moment.

 

[alberthiel]

He explained it in big words to me that was just gibberish lol.... I found a article about it online somewhere I'll post it if I can find it.. It didn't refer to our tanks but to dinos and how it affected them...I have uses h2o2 in the past for dipping plugs to kill hair algae and it worked wonders... I missed our last club meeting when Justin credible came and that was all he talked about...h2o2 and all the good it does for our tanks... Wish I went..

Look into using an OXYDATOR ... much safer and better results when using peroxide as it does not add any to the tan, only O2 and water ...

There is a thread on Oxydators on this forum I am sure ... If you cannot find it let me know.

I have used one for months and would not give it up for anything you offered me, not even a Tyree high end Birdsnest ... I guess that tells you how pleased I am with the device

 

[alberthiel]

I have had to use chemiclean about a month prior and never got anything near this success... mostly, just got rid of the cyano. The water change is a necessary part of the chemi clean regimen, but I was in need of one as well... I do agree, though, its impossible to know exactly what had produced the results I am getting now, however, I have seen no real i'll effects other than the increased bleaching of the Monti which was already having problems, however, The part that is improving, is improving dramatically. I'm considering removing the rest of the piece as it is collecting fish wast that I need to blow off regularly... I do thing I need more flow in the area which could be done just by cleaning my powerheads, I just have been delaying that as I had mistakenly zip tied everything together and I don't have the time to fish them out of the power center at the moment.

I suggest to repeat the treatment in a about a week and make sure you go by the "actual" water content of the tank ... I will get rid of cyanos (green and red) and Dinos, but not of other nuisance algae.

Now why does it work > Cyanos are bacteria and so to get rid of them one needs an antibiotic but not Erythromycin ethylsuccinate as that will kill off your biological filter ... so they use a different, one but unfortunately I cannot reveal which one it it is because that would not be fair to them .. but it does the job ! I have solved a few LFS's problems ....

Let me know whether you want more info .,,

Discussed in detail in my book Nano-Reef Aquariums ..

 

[lofty78]

Repeat the ChemiClean treatment?... Actually It seems that I am doing it monthly, you think that within a week, its safe to do? I've also heard of some getting rid of algae with VC dosing.. As far as my research had led me, I found nothing about the h2o2 damaging the bio filter in small dose like what I am doing. I'm sure your research far exceeds mine and I am curious to hear more.

 

[lofty78]

How long has this thread been a sticky? I found it by searching

 

[alberthiel]

Albert its anecdotal. He has done so many things it hard to determine what he did to rid his aquarium of that.

I don't know if you remember from maybe 15 to 20 years ago, I dont remember the exact time but I brought up dinoflagellates on fish net and I had been working with John Tullock, Bob Bob Goeman, and a local biologist.. A little with Julian but we wont talk about that, raise the ph? LOL that is actually where that whole raise the ph started.

Anyway you suggested Potassium permanganate I believe and you had a product called redox plus at the time to try.. I actually think I still have some of the stuff..
How is Potassium permanganate any different than adding peroxide really they both oxidize things in the water column...

By the way it is good to see you involved with the hobby again.

Thanks and indeed that is all a long time ago as you say ... and on the topic .... both oxidize indeed and so it should be possible in theory to use either one or the other one to eradicate them but I think that it is interesting that the topic has been going on for all those years (and Fishnet IS a long time ago for sure), and there really does not seem to be a method that specifically deals with them without resorting to chemical treatment ... I think better control of the water quality is the way to avoid them so one does not have to resort to all those chemical treatments. Have had a 20 G running for nearly a year now and have never had any Dinos ... but I keep the flow high and the water quality too ... no cyanos either .... so better maintenance and water qual. management is probably the better and sounder approach IMO .... Why have to be reactive when one can be pro-active and avoid them.

Good the hear from you .... gee and yes long long time ago indeed ... Thanks for the kind words ... New book is doing very well btw ... Thanks shred5 .... Not sure what John is doing but Bob is still quite active ... saw a long article he wrote for a UK mag last month (I write for it too - Marine Habitat) ...and Charles is in SanFran and Julian is still doing his Two Little Fishes ... A few others from those days may not be involved any longer either (John Burleson ... has not heard what he does nowadays) and John Farrell Kuhns now runs a chemical distribution business ... I guess some come and some go and then some re-appear

 

[alberthiel]

I have had to use chemiclean about a month prior and never got anything near this success... mostly, just got rid of the cyano. The water change is a necessary part of the chemi clean regimen, but I was in need of one as well... I do agree, though, its impossible to know exactly what had produced the results I am getting now, however, I have seen no real i'll effects other than the increased bleaching of the Monti which was already having problems, however, The part that is improving, is improving dramatically. I'm considering removing the rest of the piece as it is collecting fish wast that I need to blow off regularly... I do thing I need more flow in the area which could be done just by cleaning my powerheads, I just have been delaying that as I had mistakenly zip tied everything together and I don't have the time to fish them out of the power center at the moment.

Odd as most who have used it report good success and eradication ... however you are correct some report also that they have to do it several times to really get rid of the cyanos and the dines, and so so a few weeks apart paying attention to the cautions (O2 levels) ....

And yes increased flow is certainly going to help but upping the water quality may have to be combined with that as well or they will eventually re-appear. Note that this is based on what I read in various areas as I have not had to deal with them ... But as I posted before I use an Oxydator which keep the O2 levels at saturation all the time in the entire tank and with good strong flow I do not have any dead spots ... You may want to read up on dosing H2O2 in small amounts as well .... don't use that method myself though as I don't need to. Hope you figure it out and get rid of them for good.

 

[alberthiel]

How long has this thread been a sticky? I found it by searching

Not sure ... it should say so where it is listed as created by ... and a date I think ...

 

[Stpatrick]

intresting. Tagging alone..

 

[Lacktaters]

Well, after struggling with dynos for months, I have a success story to share.

Here's what I tried without success: pulled biopellets, dosed MB7 daily, weekly water changes, no water changes, dosed peroxide, dosed fauna marin algae x, extended periods of lights out, lengthy periods of only running blue lighting, daily removal with siphon hose. No matter what, it always came back!

Here's what got rid of them:

As soon as the scrubber started growing green turf, the dinos were gone. It seemed to happen overnight.

 

[shred5]

I don’t know if you ever read any of my other post on this subject over the years. Even though I am not for this method I will talk about for all people because I think algae has little place in a reef and we should strive for low nutrients. This method is just for those who have a cronic problem with dinoflagellates. In most case controlling nutrients and you will not have a problem.


Dinoflagellates are a different story all together. You need to grow green algae. Lowering nutrients does not kill dinoflagellates it makes them take off in some instances. What ever dinos need green algae can out compete dinos for it. I realized this because I have been in the hobby so long and in the early days I never saw dinos except during cycle because at that point there are so many nutrients. In the early days we grew macro in our reefs to control nutrients, our tanks had as much macro algae as corals. Of coarse we didn’t have the nice skimmers we have now. I fought dinos for years after we started removing the macros from our tanks. When I started breeding fish in my brood stock tanks I would just let macros grow to help with nutrients, they were lit well since I also kept btas in these tanks. My brood stock tanks never had dinos in either. When refugiums with macros growing in became popular I never saw tanks with dinos. I started to put two and two together.



Problem with lowering nutrients so low is green algae stops growing or dies. My theory is it may actually be iron but it could be something else. Places that have high iron in the water may have more problem with dino's but that is just a theory.


I have not had dinos in probably 15 to 20 years now except during cycle. I think we are seeing a surge in dinos because people are now running much more efficient skimmers, biopellets etc and are getting away from refugiums with algae since they are not need for lower nutrients.


I am no way advocating raising nutrients. I still believe in keeping phosphate under .03 ppm. and nitrate as low as possible, but for the extreeme case of dinoflagellates I think keeping them at the point where you can keep macro algae alive and using the macros to keep nutrients low is ok.

 

[alberthiel]

I don’t know if you ever read any of my other post on this subject over the years. Even though I am not for this method I will talk about for all people because I think algae has little place in a reef and we should strive for low nutrients. This method is just for those who have a cronic problem with dinoflagellates. In most case controlling nutrients and you will not have a problem.


Dinoflagellates are a different story all together. You need to grow green algae. Lowering nutrients does not kill dinoflagellates it makes them take off in some instances. What ever dinos need green algae can out compete dinos for it. I realized this because I have been in the hobby so long and in the early days I never saw dinos except during cycle because at that point there are so many nutrients. In the early days we grew macro in our reefs to control nutrients, our tanks had as much macro algae as corals. Of coarse we didn’t have the nice skimmers we have now. I fought dinos for years after we started removing the macros from our tanks. When I started breeding fish in my brood stock tanks I would just let macros grow to help with nutrients, they were lit well since I also kept btas in these tanks. My brood stock tanks never had dinos in either. When refugiums with macros growing in became popular I never saw tanks with dinos. I started to put two and two together.



Problem with lowering nutrients so low is green algae stops growing or dies. My theory is it may actually be iron but it could be something else. Places that have high iron in the water may have more problem with dino's but that is just a theory.


I have not had dinos in probably 15 to 20 years now except during cycle. I think we are seeing a surge in dinos because people are now running much more efficient skimmers, biopellets etc and are getting away from refugiums with algae since they are not need for lower nutrients.


I am no way advocating raising nutrients. I still believe in keeping phosphate under .03 ppm. and nitrate as low as possible, but for the extreeme case of dinoflagellates I think keeping them at the point where you can keep macro algae alive and using the macros to keep nutrients low is ok.

There are several articles on Dinos that were published and here is one :

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

that deals with them in aquariums. Personally I have not had issues with them but of course lots of hobbyists have and do, and as you point out some of the reasons you mention may all be causes but the sort of definite reason has IME not been established ... many theories have been advanced but real low nutrients may not be the cause, as so many who run ULNS do not seem to bring the problem up.

The article contains links to other articles as well ... FWIW

 

[shred5]

There are several articles on Dinos that were published and here is one :

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

that deals with them in aquariums. Personally I have not had issues with them but of course lots of hobbyists have and do, and as you point out some of the reasons you mention may all be causes but the sort of definite reason has IME not been established ... many theories have been advanced but real low nutrients may not be the cause, as so many who run ULNS do not seem to bring the problem up.

The article contains links to other articles as well ... FWIW

Yea I dont know what causes them. My point was what ever they need macros and other algae seem to out compete them for it, some other limiting factor.. The area I used to live in had high iron in the water and again this was back in the day when we didn't know as much as we do now. But people either had a algae problems or dinoflagellates in the area. Those that had green algae problems did not have dinos, so it was an assumption on my part. I was working with Bob Gomens, John Tullock, a little with Julian (just a letter), a local marine biologist and I think you had some comments on them back then. Actually that whole ph raising thing might have started with me and Julian it was his advice to me to try which did not work. Yea I dont think ULNs system fuel dinos but they can survive those conditions where other algae cant, I think they have the ability to survive on much lower nutrient levels than most other algae or are far more efficient at acquiring nutrients.

Everything I did back then to lower nutrients just fueled them more. I have not had to deal with them in a long time now and don't ever want too again. They seriously would coat the glass rocks water surface of the water with in hours.

I would like to hear more about others who might try fighting algae with algae. Those who have had the same experience as Lacktaters has with dinoflagellates.

Also Albert I would love to hear any ideas you have on the subject on what you think might be the cause.

 

[creefer]

Well, after struggling with dynos for months, I have a success story to share.

Here's what I tried without success: pulled biopellets, dosed MB7 daily, weekly water changes, no water changes, dosed peroxide, dosed fauna marin algae x, extended periods of lights out, lengthy periods of only running blue lighting, daily removal with siphon hose. No matter what, it always came back!

Here's what got rid of them:

As soon as the scrubber started growing green turf, the dinos were gone. It seemed to happen overnight.

Wow!! That's great. Do you believe that it was a combination of things, or truly the ATS that did the dinos in?? Curious. I've been toying with the idea of an ATS lately and have yet to get going. How long did it take your ATS to start growing turf??

 

[mmoner]

Great thread, could someone identify my nuisance algae in refugium...they are over the sand bed and glass..thanks

[video=youtube;ARi2xYTQHiE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARi2xYTQHiE&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Pants]

Cyanobacteria

This is a nuisance algae that is actually pretty easy to get rid of (relative to others). It needs high nutrients and low flow.