Dino outbreak from Polyp Lab Medic

[ChaetoFarm_Kai]

I was gifted a mature, stable, but neglected 75g reef a few months ago, quickly added a lot of fish without quarantine and had A very mild ich outbreak. Started dosing Polyp Lab Medic in response and a few days later, I noticed small amounts of dinoflagellate algae everywhere in my display tank. Fortunately it isn’t so aggressive that it’s blanketing everything but it is certainly becoming a nuisance. Took me a few days to realize the medication may be the cause of this. My system depends on a DIY algae turf scrubber and Reef Octopus 110-INT for nutrient export. I believe this medication may be stressing the turf algae in my scrubber enough to reduce its effectiveness at nitrate and phosphate removal. The literature supplied with Polyp Lab’s “Medic” calls it an “oxidizing agent” that is “buffered to maintain physiological PH.” This makes pretty clear that the medication is some kind of salt that dissociates to release molecules that are eager to get rid of an Oxygen atom, much like Hydrogen Peroxide: the chemical we use to instantly kill algae on our frags. There are numerous papers out there on how different types of algae react to oxidative stress, and I even noticed one about using similar oxidizing salts to control algae in drinking water reservoirs. I’m hoping this clears up once I finish this course of course, I can’t wait to end the doses and throw in a fresh bag of carbon. Numerous members have used this medication with mixed results, I was just curious if anyone else has noticed similar changes in the balance of their algae populations from using this product, and if anyone happens to know what the primary chemical in “Medic” is.

 

[ryshark]

But wouldn’t stressing or even killing some of the algae off increase your PO4 and NO3? If so, how would increasing nutrients cause dinos?

 

[Spare time]

Sounds like a classic case of a logical fallacy. I HIGHLY doubt medic (peroxide salts) had anything to do with dinos.

 

[ChaetoFarm_Kai]

But wouldn’t stressing or even killing some of the algae off increase your PO4 and NO3? If so, how would increasing nutrients cause dinos?

The theory I’ve heard about why Dinos thrive in systems with ultra low levels of PO4 and NO3 is because the “good” algae and bacteria that outcompete the Dino’s in healthy systems need higher levels than the Dino’s do to outcompete them. My theory is that despite the availability of these compounds, this medication is inhibiting the growth of said good organisms.

 

[ChaetoFarm_Kai]

Sounds like a classic case of a logical fallacy. I HIGHLY doubt medic (peroxide salts) had anything to do with dinos.

Just an educated guess, bear in mind this is a mature, stable system as I said in the OP, and I will say I noticed three sudden changes in the first week of use that I had not dealt with before: Dinos, rising phosphate and nitrate, and reduced growth in my ATS. I stated my supporting evidence, do you have any opposing evidence for me to consider?

 

[DarkReefer]

Whilst I've recently gone through using this myself and do have some dinos showing in the tank, I never even considered that medic was the cause. Interesting.

My tank was about 3 months or so old when I had an ich/velvet outbreak. The Medic thankfully corrected it, however I did notice algae build up and phosphate/nitrate increase since. Not so much the nitrates (only up from about 2 to 5-10), but definitely the phosphates (went from 0.03-0.04 to 0.1-0.2+). This could have been a mix of turning off my media reactor whilst I was dosing though.

So it's still considered a fairly new tank and the dinos and algae issues I'm having could certainly just be a part of the usual cycle of a newish tank.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I was gifted a mature, stable, but neglected 75g reef a few months ago, quickly added a lot of fish without quarantine and had A very mild ich outbreak. Started dosing Polyp Lab Medic in response and a few days later, I noticed small amounts of dinoflagellate algae everywhere in my display tank. Fortunately it isn’t so aggressive that it’s blanketing everything but it is certainly becoming a nuisance. Took me a few days to realize the medication may be the cause of this. My system depends on a DIY algae turf scrubber and Reef Octopus 110-INT for nutrient export. I believe this medication may be stressing the turf algae in my scrubber enough to reduce its effectiveness at nitrate and phosphate removal. The literature supplied with Polyp Lab’s “Medic” calls it an “oxidizing agent” that is “buffered to maintain physiological PH.” This makes pretty clear that the medication is some kind of salt that dissociates to release molecules that are eager to get rid of an Oxygen atom, much like Hydrogen Peroxide: the chemical we use to instantly kill algae on our frags. There are numerous papers out there on how different types of algae react to oxidative stress, and I even noticed one about using similar oxidizing salts to control algae in drinking water reservoirs. I’m hoping this clears up once I finish this course of course, I can’t wait to end the doses and throw in a fresh bag of carbon. Numerous members have used this medication with mixed results, I was just curious if anyone else has noticed similar changes in the balance of their algae populations from using this product, and if anyone happens to know what the primary chemical in “Medic” is.

Medic is merely peroxide salts and likely not cause but likely tank too clean being very low or free of both nitrate and phosphates along with bright light. The problem arises when conditions in the aquarium break the biological balance and some dinoflagellate species spread uncontrollably, smothering the rest of the aquarium inhabitants. If the dinoflagellate species in question has the ability to produce toxins (usual in ostreopsis, gambierdiscus and prorocentrum to name a few)
The problem often arises when we try to bring cleanliness it to the limit, in order to improve its appearance and color of corals.
They tend to occur suddenly when the aquarium water reaches an extraordinary cleanliness, in which most microorganisms perishes for lack of food. With no other organisms that can stop them, this type of dinoflagellate can multiply so fast that when we realize it's late and we will find an aquarium full of brown and ochre slime suffocating fish and invertebrates. These dinoflagellates possess chloroplasts enabling them to synthesize their own food even under a minimal amount of light. Some species can form cysts called pellicles which allow them to remain in the aquarium for months although we have completely sterilized or kept in complete darkness. Once the light or the right conditions come back, they will reappear and thus problems.
Most of these dinoflagellates have a very curious behavior, typical of pathogens and parasites. With the presence of light they secrete mucus which adhere to any surface, including algae, coral and fish. They spend hours synthesising food and extending vertically in search of the light source (if we turn off the pumps in the aquarium we can see brown filaments grow towards the surface). When the light source disappears and can no longer synthesize food, it begins to diminish to none.

 

[gbroadbridge]

I was gifted a mature, stable, but neglected 75g reef a few months ago, quickly added a lot of fish without quarantine and had A very mild ich outbreak. Started dosing Polyp Lab Medic in response and a few days later, I noticed small amounts of dinoflagellate algae everywhere in my display tank. Fortunately it isn’t so aggressive that it’s blanketing everything but it is certainly becoming a nuisance. Took me a few days to realize the medication may be the cause of this. My system depends on a DIY algae turf scrubber and Reef Octopus 110-INT for nutrient export. I believe this medication may be stressing the turf algae in my scrubber enough to reduce its effectiveness at nitrate and phosphate removal. The literature supplied with Polyp Lab’s “Medic” calls it an “oxidizing agent” that is “buffered to maintain physiological PH.” This makes pretty clear that the medication is some kind of salt that dissociates to release molecules that are eager to get rid of an Oxygen atom, much like Hydrogen Peroxide: the chemical we use to instantly kill algae on our frags. There are numerous papers out there on how different types of algae react to oxidative stress, and I even noticed one about using similar oxidizing salts to control algae in drinking water reservoirs. I’m hoping this clears up once I finish this course of course, I can’t wait to end the doses and throw in a fresh bag of carbon. Numerous members have used this medication with mixed results, I was just curious if anyone else has noticed similar changes in the balance of their algae populations from using this product, and if anyone happens to know what the primary chemical in “Medic” is.

The two events are unrelated.

Polyp lab medic is simply hydrogen peroxide tarted up with fancy marketing mumbo jumbo.

If anything, it should reduce Dino's not cause them.

 

[Saim]

The two events are unrelated.

Polyp lab medic is simply hydrogen peroxide tarted up with fancy marketing mumbo jumbo.

If anything, it should reduce Dino's not cause them.

It's definitely been working well in my reef tank. I had a mild outbreak of ich which I'm certain would have killed my infected fish. I've always had bad results with quarantine, copper and hypo. I have mostly LPS with one SPS colony. This was the first time I tried polyp lab medic and I definitely recommend it. Now, with reference to dino brown slime outbreak... After a few days into dosing the medic, my sand and then also rocks was covered in this brown slime. I think it was definitely a side-effect of using the polyp lab medic. But I'm still grateful that it's got rid of the ich. I just need to see if I'm right, as soon as I've pulled out all the crap using carbon and rowaphos.