David Saxby - No water change in 2 and half years ? Recent interview discussion

[SomeHappyFish]

I recently watched an Interview with David Saxby filmed by Reef Art and Design about his Reef tank. I learned that he claims that he hasn't done a water change in 2.5 years only by dosing Reef ZElements and using a Nitrate Reactor and a skimmer by Deltec if I understood correctly and that he has seen better results by doing so.

He specifically said this " [...] removing the Phosphate, controlling the Nitrate with a Nitrate reactor and vodka and using C02 to bring the anaerobic system down to the right pH [...]"

He also mentioned that this wasn't without issues, but he managed to end off those problems because he's gone off the calcium reactor but he still dose a formula that has a pH enhancer.

He says many people will disagree with this and that he also did for years because he believed that the solution to pollution was dilution which is achieved by doing a water change but he hasn't done one in 2.5 years.

I'm curious to learn more about this method which doesn't require water change or doing monthly ICP testing. His tank has 3,000G won't he need an excessive amount of dosing liquid which is way more costly than a calcium reactor or using Kalkwasser ?

if I understood the interview incorrectly feel free to correct me

 

[Formulator]

Its not all that unusual. As long as the nutrient export methods are robust and the trace elements are accounted for, there is no need for water change. ICP testing is an element of some trace element dosing regiments, but not really a necessity. If you have a good handle on your alk/calcium uptake, the trace element dosing can be estimated based on those.

His tank has 3,000G won't he need an excessive amount of dosing liquid which is way more costly than a calcium reactor or using Kalkwasser ?

I imagine someone with a 3,000g tank doesn’t worry much about money…

 

[Solo McReefer]

I think I remember seeing a video of that tank 5 years ago, where he said no waterchange for years

Jake Adams did an interview of Sanjay Yoshi, where he had a tank for 10 years no water change

I think this is the one

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I think I remember seeing a video of that tank 5 years ago, where he said no waterchange for years

Jake Adams did an interview of Sanjay Yoshi, where he had a tank for 10 years no water change

I think this is the one

Thanks for the video, I will watch it later !

 

[SomeHappyFish]

Its not all that unusual. As long as the nutrient export methods are robust and the trace elements are accounted for, there is no need for water change. ICP testing is an element of some trace element dosing regiments, but not really a necessity. If you have a good handle on your alk/calcium uptake, the trace element dosing can be estimated based on those.



I imagine someone with a 3,000g tank doesn’t worry much about money…

True, but for someone like me who doesn't have has much money it's still nice to see a working method to save money by not buying so much salt.

Might try it one day on a tank and compare it to my other tank.

 

[Formulator]

True, but for someone like me who doesn't have has much money it's still nice to see a working method to save money by not buying so much salt.

Might try it one day on a tank and compare it to my other tank.

Go for it! In a smaller tank with less demand, standard 2 part dosing and a trace supplement, or just All-for-reef can be much cheaper than regular water changes. For nutrient export, carbon dosing is cheap and you can just use vinegar. It is very effective at nutrient removal and may be all you need to eliminate water changes.

Here is a nice thread with instructions if you want to explore further:

Thread 'NEW Vodka and Vinegar Dosing Charts'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/new-vodka-and-vinegar-dosing-charts.1024056/

 

[Spare time]

I think with quality activated carbon, dosing, mechanical filtration, and some form of waste export, it's very feasible. I don't do water changes. I typically use macroalgae rather than carbon dosing. My current nano tank simply uses soft corals to remove nitrate and phosphate.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I think I remember seeing a video of that tank 5 years ago, where he said no waterchange for years

Jake Adams did an interview of Sanjay Yoshi, where he had a tank for 10 years no water change

I think this is the one

This one was 10% a month which is still very low specially Acro Dominated.

Method:
Skimmer, Calcium reactor ,Cheato reactor, 10% monthly water change.

Issue mentioned:
Issues with low pH because of the Calcium reactor same has Saxby.

High nitrates because of the amount of fish so he added a cheato reactor. Didn't mentioned if it worked great.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

If I'm going to try it, I would do it in my 50G cube system which I planned of doing 20% Monthly.

Method:
Carbon dosing with Vinegar for nitrates
Oversized Skimmer
Filter sock or Filter floss
Activated carbon
C02 scrubber for pH (because of carbon dose)
Macro algae (Dragon's breath)
AFR or 2 Part ESV

AFR contains trace elements but doesn't help the pH like esv would but ESV elevates salinity slowly. Hmmm

To try this method I would need to buy a not too expensive Jebao doser.

I only have couple of mushrooms and 2 hammers for now so I think I will wait and monitor the values a bit.

 

[irischan]

When the density of corals in a tank is pushed to the limit, the corals used up all organic nutrient and thus water change to dilute the nutrient is not necessary.

 

[Spare time]

If I'm going to try it, I would do it in my 50G cube system which I planned of doing 20% Monthly.

Method:
Carbon dosing with Vinegar for nitrates
Oversized Skimmer
Filter sock or Filter floss
Activated carbon
C02 scrubber for pH (because of carbon dose)
Macro algae (Dragon's breath)
AFR or 2 Part ESV

AFR contains trace elements but doesn't help the pH like esv would but ESV elevates salinity slowly. Hmmm

To try this method I would need to buy a not too expensive Jebao doser.

I only have couple of mushrooms and 2 hammers for now so I think I will wait and monitor the values a bit.

I would start without the carbon dosing and see how the refugium handles it at first.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

I would start without the carbon dosing and see how the refugium handles it at first.

No refugium, display only Cool thanks for the input !

 

[buruskeee]

True, but for someone like me who doesn't have has much money it's still nice to see a working method to save money by not buying so much salt.

Might try it one day on a tank and compare it to my other tank.

It’s less hard labor but probably similar costs. It’s a trade off. The larger the system, the more advantageous it is to do the more active monitoring than the larger water changes.

 

[Spare time]

No refugium, display only Cool thanks for the input !

Oh sorry I saw the macroalgae and assumed that. If the display tank has enough macroalgae, that would essentially do the same thing. I have a friend whose tank is filled with macroalgae and we pour food in that like there is no tomorrow.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm curious to learn more about this method which doesn't require water change or doing monthly ICP testing.

This method sounds exactly like what many folks have been doing for years. Add alk and calcium, and then take a guess (or use someone else’s guess) of what trace elements to add.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

It’s less hard labor but probably similar costs. It’s a trade off. The larger the system, the more advantageous it is to do the more active monitoring than the larger water changes.

I guess the costs is the same on a huge system but a smaller tank of 50G like me, it should be cheaper ?

10% weekly is around 260G so I would need to buy 2 buckets of reef salt for a total of 250$ canadian dollars. Vinegar is a way cheaper option to reduce nitrate, but it does nothing to alk, cal, mg and so one so dosing the rest might raised the number spent a bit I guess.

Oh sorry I saw the macroalgae and assumed that. If the display tank has enough macroalgae, that would essentially do the same thing. I have a friend whose tank is filled with macroalgae and we pour food in that like there is no tomorrow.

I love the look but Canada hasn't too many cool macro algae sadly.

This method sounds exactly like what many folks have been doing for years. Add alk and calcium, and then take a guess (or use someone else’s guess) of what trace elements to add.

I see! I was shocked to find a tank this size utilizing the no-water-change technique. Many huge reef tanks swear by the waterchange approach.

However I have watched a lot of videos or read some old threads on other forums and most big tank often only do 10% monthly.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

One reason I opted for the 20% monthly on my second tank was to give my corals a more stable environnement.

 

[scotty333]

One reason I opted for the 20% monthly on my second tank was to give my corals a more stable environnement.

Water changes unless done weekly of a reasonable amount would keep it somewhat stable but monthly no because the new water will be nothing like what you’ve took out over a month unless you’ve no fish or corals
No water change = no parameter change if your dosing whichever way

 

[SomeHappyFish]

Water changes unless done weekly of a reasonable amount would keep it somewhat stable but monthly no because the new water will be nothing like what you’ve took out over a month unless you’ve no fish or corals
No water change = no parameter change if your dosing whichever way

I see, what you mean. The parameters might be lower then the added 10% water change parameters.

 

[SomeHappyFish]

However dosing 2 part or using the balling method by tropic marins gives an accumulation of Sodium ions /chloride ions which increase the Salinity slowly which needs to be corrected by Water change or RODI water. So to avoid doing a water change, All-For-Reef or Kalkwasser would be a better idea in this case ?

Kalk does give a pH boost which would help fight a lower pH by the Carbon Dosing.

I know that a reef tank without ANY water change is unrealistic but reducing the amount is where I'm trying to get at haha.