Cycling to end with premium live rock, best method?

[BubblesandSqueak]

So 100 gallon tank. I’d like to do live ocean rock. Was told cycle with base premium later. Can I and what recommendation would be if I cycled a smaller amount of base rock? Would it be feasible to cycle with maybe 40lbs of base then after a couple months move most of it to the sump then add 60lbs of premium to the DT? Then cycle for another month? Or do I really need to cycle the full 100lbs of base? Trying to get minimal due to the cost but just want to end up with all premium in about 2 months. I think the recommendation was there’d be too Much die off from premium but wouldn’t that be better for the ammonia spike? So basically best method for all premium rock in a new aquarium. Thanks for thoughts. (Seems like a waste to place premium in an aquarium that you already need to cycle if you Dr Tim’s, dry rock rock, cyan and other ugly stages after months then premium etc..) even if I could Dr Tim’s to water, sand and marine pure in the sump for a few weeks then straight premium and let it cycle more…?)

 

[Midrats]

There's minimal die off if you put the rock right in the tank with flow, filtration, and light. Just get 100# of KPs live base rock. It's less expensive and has a lot of life and all the bacteria you need. I typically only buy their top shelf stuff, but this last time I went with the base and it's almost as nice as the other stuff. You'll be reefing much faster if you go this route.

 

[Doctorgori]

not an answer per se but related:
I’ve mixed dead rock with live during cycle, definitely works just fine, in fact what you suggest isn’t a bad idea.
My only twist is with the KP stuff exists high probability of crabs, spaghetti worms, fireworks, mantis, eat. In fact I’ve got them all.
Long story short: I cycle KP or Florida rock in a bare bottom; unstacked, lifting the rock off the bottom 2-3x daily to “de-pest”. Only afterwards do I risk adding it. While I doubt you get em all, you will get most; especially mantis & fireworms

 

[Midrats]

The pests are minimal and easy to remove I'm my experience. Don't let that deter you. Here's 20# of the base rock I got a couple of months ago. There were no crabs at all.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

My thought was TBS premium over the base. So you’d recommend then just all base? I’d like 1/2 the tank open sand base. So pending how it looks, I’d move some to the sump. So don’t even Dr Tim’s it? How long before do you think it would be ok to fill it with saltwater? (While waiting for the delivery) and go straight to DT? I need to call before ordering but don’t think I want any rocks under 8” in DT. Was thinking two tripods of rock with a bridge between. No islands (at least for now). Maybe a separate live branch down the road as the island.

 

[Midrats]

Philipp at KP will pick whatever size you need, and yes put it straight into your awaiting filled new tank. I prefer KP's Keys site over TBS's gulf site which has too many filter feeders and barnacles in my experience, indicating more turbid water. No bottled bacteria needed.

The base rock is almost as nice premium stuff. There is lots of coralline and other life, almost no die off. I didn't put it straight into the tank because there were some fish and corals in there already. I did a 100% water change daily and put it the tank one week later.

 

[Dan_P]

So 100 gallon tank. I’d like to do live ocean rock. Was told cycle with base premium later. Can I and what recommendation would be if I cycled a smaller amount of base rock? Would it be feasible to cycle with maybe 40lbs of base then after a couple months move most of it to the sump then add 60lbs of premium to the DT? Then cycle for another month? Or do I really need to cycle the full 100lbs of base? Trying to get minimal due to the cost but just want to end up with all premium in about 2 months. I think the recommendation was there’d be too Much die off from premium but wouldn’t that be better for the ammonia spike? So basically best method for all premium rock in a new aquarium. Thanks for thoughts. (Seems like a waste to place premium in an aquarium that you already need to cycle if you Dr Tim’s, dry rock rock, cyan and other ugly stages after months then premium etc..) even if I could Dr Tim’s to water, sand and marine pure in the sump for a few weeks then straight premium and let it cycle more…?)

If you are starting an aquarium with live rock, adding Dr. Tim’s or any other starter bacteria is unnecessary unless you plan on rapidly stocking it with fish. If you do not trust such a skip-cycle set up, you can always test the aquarium’s capacity to consume ammonia by adding a little ammonium chloride, say 0.25-0.5 ppm, and watch how quickly it disappears. If you anticipate a die off on your new live rocks, keep them in a separate container until the die-off over (once called curing).

 

[JoJosReef]

My thought was TBS premium over the base. So you’d recommend then just all base? I’d like 1/2 the tank open sand base. So pending how it looks, I’d move some to the sump. So don’t even Dr Tim’s it? How long before do you think it would be ok to fill it with saltwater? (While waiting for the delivery) and go straight to DT? I need to call before ordering but don’t think I want any rocks under 8” in DT. Was thinking two tripods of rock with a bridge between. No islands (at least for now). Maybe a separate live branch down the road as the island.

TBS premium is beautiful rocks. Their "The Package" explains the base rock to premium rock cycle perfectly well. But if you get the rocks shipped in water and get them directly into the tank with minimal exposure to air, your die-off ought to be minimal and nothing the rock's bacteria can't handle. A few water changes should also help preserve everything.

If it were me, I'd just order all the base rock and premium rock at once, get it in the DT and work on aquascaping later. There's no good way to aquascape wet rock in any case, so best get it in and let it sit. Maybe pick out some hitchhikers in the meantime. If I wanted to be extra careful, I would cycle Seachem Matrix beforehand and have that sitting in the sump for when the rocks arrive.

Forget the Dr. Tim's for sure. You don't need the ammonia to grow bacteria -- it's already there.

 

[Rusty_L_Shackleford]

My thought was TBS premium over the base. So you’d recommend then just all base? I’d like 1/2 the tank open sand base. So pending how it looks, I’d move some to the sump. So don’t even Dr Tim’s it? How long before do you think it would be ok to fill it with saltwater? (While waiting for the delivery) and go straight to DT? I need to call before ordering but don’t think I want any rocks under 8” in DT. Was thinking two tripods of rock with a bridge between. No islands (at least for now). Maybe a separate live branch down the road as the island.

Honestly by best advise is the get the best rock you cam afford. Personally I would go 1/2 base half premium and definitely get more than you think you'll need by at least 20% to give you more options when aquascaping. Just toss any leftovers in your sump. Just put it in the tank and and scape to you're liking. Feed lightly and keep the lights off. Then wait blast off the rocks with a turkey baster periodically and remove anything dead. And wait. You might or might not get an ammonia spike so you'll want to test for that and nitrite periodically. When they both drop to zero I would do a big waterchange and add your your first fish and a small CUC. While the rock cycles is the beat time to keep an eye out for and deal with any hitchhikers. Even if you get a few pests they're pretty trivial to deal with especially at this stage. The key here is patience (nothing good happens fast in a reef). No need to add anything out of a bottle or anything here, there are no good shortcuts. This is how we did it when all you could get was Fiji rock wrapped in wet newspaper that had been sitting in a container on a ship for God knows how long. Now there is so much less dieoff on good cultured rock shipped right to your door.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

TBS premium is beautiful rocks. Their "The Package" explains the base rock to premium rock cycle perfectly well. But if you get the rocks shipped in water and get them directly into the tank with minimal exposure to air, your die-off ought to be minimal and nothing the rock's bacteria can't handle. A few water changes should also help preserve everything.

If it were me, I'd just order all the base rock and premium rock at once, get it in the DT and work on aquascaping later. There's no good way to aquascape wet rock in any case, so best get it in and let it sit. Maybe pick out some hitchhikers in the meantime. If I wanted to be extra careful, I would cycle Seachem Matrix beforehand and have that sitting in the sump for when the rocks arrive.

Forget the Dr. Tim's for sure. You don't need the ammonia to grow bacteria -- it's already there.

That’s what I’m thinking. Seachem etc..in the sump if that needs the bacteria to cycle. When I talked to TBS it seems cycle with base then months later premium. So I’d need to look up what the base/premium package thing is. TBS has the BF to CB 15% off deal which I need to accelerate all my planning if I go with them. Haven’t checked KP yet.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

Honestly by best advise is the get the best rock you cam afford. Personally I would go 1/2 base half premium and definitely get more than you think you'll need by at least 20% to give you more options when aquascaping. Just toss any leftovers in your sump. Just put it in the tank and and scape to you're liking. Feed lightly and keep the lights off. Then wait blast off the rocks with a turkey baster periodically and remove anything dead. And wait. You might or might not get an ammonia spike so you'll want to test for that and nitrite periodically. When they both drop to zero I would do a big waterchange and add your your first fish and a small CUC. While the rock cycles is the beat time to keep an eye out for and deal with any hitchhikers. Even if you get a few pests they're pretty trivial to deal with especially at this stage. The key here is patience (nothing good happens fast in a reef). No need to add anything out of a bottle or anything here, there are no good shortcuts. This is how we did it when all you could get was Fiji rock wrapped in wet newspaper that had been sitting in a container on a ship for God knows how long. Now there is so much less dieoff on good cultured rock shipped right to your door.

I’m ok letting it be for 3 months. That’s my goal before stock. Just want the better rock at the less cost type of thing. So going all premium I’d be OK with if it was the better option over 3 months etc…basically I also need to figure out how the whole tank set up is in record time if I order the rock this weekend since the tank will only be ready for water next weekend. Not sure how much delay there would be from order to delivery. But I do have two 20 gallon rubber maid trash cans for water. Plan is both on wheels. One for waste water other for fresh mix. Quickest water change. Pump one out then drop the pump in the other. Only a few minutes.

 

[crabgrass]

Philipp at KP will pick whatever size you need, and yes put it straight into your awaiting filled new tank. I prefer KP's Keys site over TBS's gulf site which has too many filter feeders and barnacles in my experience, indicating more turbid water. No bottled bacteria needed.

The base rock is almost as nice premium stuff. There is lots of coralline and other life, almost no die off. I didn't put it straight into the tank because there were some fish and corals in there already. I did a 100% water change daily and put it the tank one week later.

I am starting a 30-60 day dry rock cycle this weekend (in a trash can). I am planning on adding 10-30 lbs of base rock from KP or TBS once the tank is setup and moving.

Would you still throw the real live rock in some sort of QT to remove any hitchhikers/die off?

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

I am starting a 30-60 day dry rock cycle this weekend (in a trash can). I am planning on adding 10-30 lbs of base rock from KP or TBS once the tank is setup and moving.

Would you still throw the real live rock in some sort of QT to remove any hitchhikers/die off?

Personally I’d like to put an Aiptasia eating file fish as the first inhabitant.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

Wow. I just read KPs live rock roccomendations…that’s A LOT of water changing upfront I’m guessing in a trash can is better to at least avoid something which would be a lot more tank cleaning. So in the trash cans will give me more time to set the tank up and less water. And no Aiptasia on KP rock ?

 

[JoJosReef]

That’s what I’m thinking. Seachem etc..in the sump if that needs the bacteria to cycle. When I talked to TBS it seems cycle with base then months later premium. So I’d need to look up what the base/premium package thing is. TBS has the BF to CB 15% off deal which I need to accelerate all my planning if I go with them. Haven’t checked KP yet.

I put a Seachem Ammonia Alert badge on mine. Never registered any ammonia. Red Sea tests were negative too. I don't know why the recommendation is to wait a month(s) before adding premium rocks and then more for other inhabitants. Maybe abundance of caution? I picked mine up from the airport and it was still in water. Added corals the same day, still have most of them (blasted sexy shrimps ate the trachy!!). I'd monitor ammonia for a week and if I don't see any, straight on with the stocking. That rock is ready to support a reef.

 

[Midrats]

Put it straight into your awaiting tank. You want to treat it just as you would coral. All the hitchhiker fearmongering is totally unwarranted. Adding live rock is the most fun part of setting up a tank!

 

[JoJosReef]

Put it straight into your awaiting tank. You want to treat it just as you would coral. All the hitchhiker fearmongering is totally unwarranted. Adding live rock is the most fun part of setting up a tank!

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

Put it straight into your awaiting tank. You want to treat it just as you would coral. All the hitchhiker fearmongering is totally unwarranted. Adding live rock is the most fun part of setting up a tank!

for base rock yes. The company said not to cycle tank with premium.

 

[Midrats]

for base rock yes. The company said not to cycle tank with premium to hat

Why? I don't understand the logic. How can your running tank with all its flow, filtration, and lighting not be the best place for your brand new expensive live rock? There will be minimal die off. You probably won't even get an ammonia spike.

 

[Midrats]

I am starting a 30-60 day dry rock cycle this weekend (in a trash can). I am planning on adding 10-30 lbs of base rock from KP or TBS once the tank is setup and moving.

Would you still throw the real live rock in some sort of QT to remove any hitchhikers/die off?

No, I wouldn't.