Coral Polyp retracted.

[alp5747]

I would appreciate any help on this, as I have no idea what is going on.
I had my tank running for 2 years no issues then I decided to plumb in 2 tanks to the system which 5x the water volume. do to the added surface area I got a large algae bloom of cyano, dinoflagellates, and hair algea which was expected due to the added surface area. Mainly Cyano is dominating the systems. Right as I added the system I decided to go fallow (fishless) for 76 days I am 3 weeks in. Going fallow caused my nitrates to bottom out.
At the start of the fallow period all sps, acros and lps had great polyp extension. But slowly over the course of 2 weeks the polyp extension started to decrease.
This I suspect was because the nitrates were bottoming out keep in mind only acros seemed to lose polyp extension at this point. Due to nitrates bottoming out I decided to dose nitrate in the form of potassium nitrate and Ammonium chloride. This was when things started to go down hill. The next day after I had increased the nitrate 3ppm form 0. And added the equivalent of 0,75 ppm nitrate in Ammonium chloride. The next day all sps polyps where retraced even Strylophora and seriatopora. Here are the parameters at this point.

Magnesium: 1250 ppm
Calcium: 400 ppm
Alkalinity: 8 dkh
Phosphate: 0,04 ppm
Nitrate 7 ppm
Salinity 36 ppt (calibrated refractometer with rodi water)
Temp: 77-78
Ph 8.3-8,4

My first thought was that there was some impurity’s in the ammonium or nitrate supplement I was using so I decided to send out I ICP OES test to see if there was any heavy metals in the water. I just got the icp back today. And I see no elevated heavy metals. I will attach the ICP test results.

My thoughts are: when I had added all the system with newly mixed saltwater the coral where perfectly happy with great polyp extension so i doubt that any trace element that was depleted over the 3 weeks could cause even stylophora to retract. As per my measurements I see no reason for corals to be retract based purely on water chemistry. only thing out off whack is iodine which is only double natural sea water. As to regard to stability Kalkwasser is dripped 24 hours a day and kept stable by my Alkatronic (automatic tester) My only possible guess at this point would be that the Cyano is bothering the coral.

I would really appreciate any insight or advice.

I don’t think the icp test link is working so I am attaching pictures

https://storage.reeffactory.com/share/8b01979327074abf0ca2b052f0cac42856f2ad197187?t=1717801786829

additional information:
No trace dosing at the moment.
I run Carbon constantly

 

[alp5747]

I home someone could help out here please

 

[ARB_REEFER]

Are you running carbon through a reactor? You’re trying to elevate nitrate because of a a bottom out - your phosphates look low as well - with an introduction of water volume as well as live rock/reaction space you may have gone through a mini cycle without knowing it. Were/are you dosing any nitrifying bacteria? There is a potential that due to the added surface area introduced through newer systems the surface area has spread so much that your nutrients (nitrate and phosphate are out of whack- being pulled into different systems). Also - your phosphates and nitrates are going to be hard to keep stable through dosing - you went fish less and are still running carbon. Any GFO, skimmer? I try to shoot to keep phosphates 1/10 of my nitrate. Also what dosing are you using for alk/calcium? Remember if your nitrate and phosphate keep bottoming out you’ll be in a constant fight with nuisance algae. I think this is a contributing factor to decline in SPS, as the algae is sucking up nutrients before available to coral. I’m sure someone else will chime in. Send pics of setup, sump; etc please

 

[alp5747]

Are you running carbon through a reactor? You’re trying to elevate nitrate because of a a bottom out - your phosphates look low as well - with an introduction of water volume as well as live rock/reaction space you may have gone through a mini cycle without knowing it. Were/are you dosing any nitrifying bacteria? There is a potential that due to the added surface area introduced through newer systems the surface area has spread so much that your nutrients (nitrate and phosphate are out of whack- being pulled into different systems). Also - your phosphates and nitrates are going to be hard to keep stable through dosing - you went fish less and are still running carbon. Any GFO, skimmer? I try to shoot to keep phosphates 1/10 of my nitrate. Also what dosing are you using for alk/calcium? Remember if your nitrate and phosphate keep bottoming out you’ll be in a constant fight with nuisance algae. I think this is a contributing factor to decline in SPS, as the algae is sucking up nutrients before available to coral. I’m sure someone else will chime in. Send pics of setup, sump; etc please

The carbon is ran through a reactor. The nitrate is not bottoming out anymore it is steady at around 7ppm and phosphate is also steady at 0,04 I will try to elevate it to 0,08. I shoot for a ratio of 1/100. I am dosing calcium hydroxide over a 24 hour period. Skimmer is on. keep in mind I did not add any live rock and usually people refer cycle to nitrogen cycle, but this is just a case of increasing the surface area and nuisance algae colonising that space, due to a nutrient imbalance coupled with the lack of herbivores like tangs and nails. I am getting some snails soon.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Pictures will really help.

I don't understand why you make the tank fallow for 76 days because of high nitrate, I never heard of that. There are so many ways to lower the nitrates, no need to go fishless. But then you add liquid nitrate?

Presence of cyano means that the nutrients are out of balance, and often also means lack of flow. It seems like many changes in the tank recently.

I am not clear what you are trying to do. Can you post some pics of your full tank, and pics of the affected corals.

Can you please advise what kind of filtration devices you are using on your tank, what kind of flow, and what kind of lighting? And pictures. Thanks.

 

[alp5747]

Pictures will really help.

I don't understand why you make the tank fallow for 76 days because of high nitrate, I never heard of that. There are so many ways to lower the nitrates, no need to go fishless. But then you add liquid nitrate?

Presence of cyano means that the nutrients are out of balance, and often also means lack of flow. It seems like many changes in the tank recently.

I am not clear what you are trying to do. Can you post some pics of your full tank, and pics of the affected corals.

Can you please advise what kind of filtration devices you are using on your tank, what kind of flow, and what kind of lighting? And pictures. Thanks.

I will try to get some pictures. I did not go fallow because of high nitrates. It was due to being tired of managing ich in my system. And when I did go fallow the nitrates bottomed out. At this point it created a nutrient imbalance with 0 nitrates and high phosphate which contributed to the cyano bloom. So I dosed nitrate and ammonia. keep in mind my display tank had been running for 2 years with excellent growth so there is no changes to equipment. It is something to due with cyano or water chemistry that’s why I believe the icp is so important.

 

[ARB_REEFER]

IMHO you really threw a wrench in things with 5x water volume (likely 5x surface area for colonizing bacteria) it would be similar to doing 5 water changes back to back to back, and then introducing a bunch of bacteria lacking material (assuming you added bagged sand and dead rock). That coupled with your fallow period likely starved everything beneficial in the system. I would get some detritus makers in there ASAP - snails aren’t going to solve the issue. Also I would quit dosing nitrate - and ammonia as if this is the direct correlation with your decline let’s nix that out of the equation. I think you moved too quick plumbing all of the tanks together without colonizing those with bacteria first.

 

[ryanjohn1]

I agree with arb reefer. Were al the tanks you plumbed together up and running or were they new tanks put into an existing? Likely the bottoming of nutrients and slope in phos really ticked off the sps.

 

[alp5747]

I agree with arb reefer. Were al the tanks you plumbed together up and running or were they new tanks put into an existing? Likely the bottoming of nutrients and slope in phos really ticked off the sps.

It was just two empty tanks to rock or sand plumbed to existing system. this is my thoughts on what happened. First I decided to go fallow and at the same time add the system in the beginning everything was thriving due to nitrates still being in the system then after 1 week or so the nitrates bottomed out this was also the time cyano showed up likely due to the nutrient imbalance. Up to this point everything that happened was explainable and understandable. After this I corrected the nitrates now the nitrates and phosphates have been stable for 2 weeks with no parameters out of whack as seen in the icp test. So the only conclusion I have is that the cyano is just growing and attacking and stressing the coral. Strangest thing is that the apparent dosing of alkalinity and calcium has not gone down. But I have seen what I believe is calcium carbonate precipitate on my heaters so I cannot confirm it to be solely on coral consumption.

 

[ARB_REEFER]

Your calcium/alkalinity would not go down if you did not introduce any new livestock. The precipitate is negligible. Again you removed all organic nitrates and replaced with dosing - the swing probably irritated the SPS quite a bit and now the cyano is pulling whatnl nutrients you do have (at lower levels) from your coral. Is there any way you can remove the other systems from the mix? IE close the gate valves etc.? And maybe keep those tanks going with powerheads? You still introduced a ton of surface area even with the tanks that had not had any previous bacteria. Including going fallow. Are you 100% certain it is cyano and not Dino’s? Also what else are you dosing or supplementing. Still trying to get a full picture of everything…

 

[alp5747]

Your calcium/alkalinity would not go down if you did not introduce any new livestock. The precipitate is negligible. Again you removed all organic nitrates and replaced with dosing - the swing probably irritated the SPS quite a bit and now the cyano is pulling whatnl nutrients you do have (at lower levels) from your coral. Is there any way you can remove the other systems from the mix? IE close the gate valves etc.? And maybe keep those tanks going with powerheads? You still introduced a ton of surface area even with the tanks that had not had any previous bacteria. Including going fallow. Are you 100% certain it is cyano and not Dino’s? Also what else are you dosing or supplementing. Still trying to get a full picture of everything…

Calcium/alkalinity demand is correlated with coral growth I just find it weird why when the coral had excellent polyp extension and know where even stylophora are retracted. That the consumption would remain the same. I dose over 5 gallons of fully saturated kalkwasser/Calcium hydroxide. Keep in mind all organic nitrate stems from nitrifying bacteria converting ammonia to nitrate so if I ghost feed pellets or mysis they will still break down to ammonia as fish waste would, and the same effect would be had. I think i will try to chemically remove cyano with chemiclean. As I see no other issues regarding light, flow or water chemistry. the nutrients are in balance now so I hope the cyano will not return or at least be out competed by other algea.

A very interesting note is that the system that has been running with coralline algea covered rock has more polyp extension and less cyano. So I do believe the lack of Polyp extension is correlated with the cyano.

 

[ARB_REEFER]

Again, have you confirmed cyano vs. Dino?

 

[alp5747]

Again, have you confirmed cyano vs. Dino?

Yes. I have confirmed it to be Cyanobacteria through a microscope.

 

[marine99702]

I agree with arb reefer. Were al the tanks you plumbed together up and running or were they new tanks put into an existing? Likely the bottoming of nutrients and slope in phos really ticked off the sps.

I have a question for everyone I have a torch coral that is retracing and seems like as if the tentacles got blasted off in the night. It was doing great judt before I went to bed. I have two powerheads one is a multi control with ramp up ramp down at the lowest speed and the other is a fluval rated for a 30gallon tank which My rank is 32.5 gallon. Do you think the flow could have destroyed the poplys on the torch coral through the night?

 

[marine99702]

I have a question for everyone I have a torch coral that is retracing and seems like as if the tentacles got blasted off in the night. It was doing great judt before I went to bed. I have two powerheads one is a multi control with ramp up ramp down at the lowest speed and the other is a fluval rated for a 30gallon tank which My rank is 32.5 gallon. Do you think the flow could have destroyed the poplys on the torch coral through the night?

Looks
like this today