Confusion with cycle

[Teeter]

Hey all.

On Monday (9/23), I filled my new 47 gallon AIO. I added around 30 pounds of live rock (caribsea life rock from lfs) and 30 pounds of live sand. I added a bottle of Dr. Tim’s One and Only, then dosed ammonia (~80 drops Dr Tim’s ammonium chloride, I know the recommended on the bottle is 4 per gallon but I’ve read a lot about that being too much) to reach 2ppm.

The next day (9/24, around 24 hours later) I tested to see the ammonia was only showing .25ppm with my Salifert test kit, and I had .2ppm nitrates according to my Hanna checker. Thought that was very strange (how would it process so quickly on the first day?), so I dosed another ~80 drops.

The next day (9/25 10am), I tested ammonia and it read 1.5ppm. Didn’t bother with the other two params.

An hour ago, I tested again. Nitrite was either .25 or 0 ppm (I have trouble with the very slight color diff in Salifert kits tbh), ammonia was still around that same color but slightly different, so I’m assuming it’s either .5 or 1.5ppm. This time though, my Hanna checker read 0.0 ppm nitrate. Weird, I thought, it must’ve been user error, so I retested. Again, 0.0 ppm nitrate…

Others I have talked to say I might’ve just gotten very lucky and got an instant cycle with the live rock/sand combined with Dr. Tim’s, but I’m very skeptical, especially with this new nitrate reading. Should nitrates be gradually increasing as the ammonia is used up by bacteria? Just very puzzled at the whole thing. Probably going to be taking water samples to a couple stores at some point just in case I’m a dummy and messing up tests. I’m in no rush to add livestock and don’t want to put anything at risk of harm, but I’d love to figure out this cycle. My first salt tank had a very straightforward cycling.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

 

[bossman818]

Nitrate levels should increase as ammonia levels drop. I knew my tank was cycled when I had 40ppm nitrates. What is your nitrate reading?

 

[Teeter]

Nitrate levels should increase as ammonia levels drop. I knew my tank was cycled when I had 40ppm nitrates. What is your nitrate reading?

As of an hour ago, according to two tests with my Hanna checker (so I couldn’t have just misread the test results), it’s 0.0 ppm. That’s why I’m confused.

 

[bossman818]

Your tank is not cycled yet. It’s doing it’s thing. You can’t overdose with DR Tim’s beneficial bacteria. I dosed ammonia like the instructions wanted me to and In about 2 weeks it was cycled. Nitrates got real high. Do a large water change and you are ready to go.

 

[Dan_P]

Hey all.

On Monday (9/23), I filled my new 47 gallon AIO. I added around 30 pounds of live rock (caribsea life rock from lfs) and 30 pounds of live sand. I added a bottle of Dr. Tim’s One and Only, then dosed ammonia (~80 drops Dr Tim’s ammonium chloride, I know the recommended on the bottle is 4 per gallon but I’ve read a lot about that being too much) to reach 2ppm.

The next day (9/24, around 24 hours later) I tested to see the ammonia was only showing .25ppm with my Salifert test kit, and I had .2ppm nitrates according to my Hanna checker. Thought that was very strange (how would it process so quickly on the first day?), so I dosed another ~80 drops.

The next day (9/25 10am), I tested ammonia and it read 1.5ppm. Didn’t bother with the other two params.

An hour ago, I tested again. Nitrite was either .25 or 0 ppm (I have trouble with the very slight color diff in Salifert kits tbh), ammonia was still around that same color but slightly different, so I’m assuming it’s either .5 or 1.5ppm. This time though, my Hanna checker read 0.0 ppm nitrate. Weird, I thought, it must’ve been user error, so I retested. Again, 0.0 ppm nitrate…

Others I have talked to say I might’ve just gotten very lucky and got an instant cycle with the live rock/sand combined with Dr. Tim’s, but I’m very skeptical, especially with this new nitrate reading. Should nitrates be gradually increasing as the ammonia is used up by bacteria? Just very puzzled at the whole thing. Probably going to be taking water samples to a couple stores at some point just in case I’m a dummy and messing up tests. I’m in no rush to add livestock and don’t want to put anything at risk of harm, but I’d love to figure out this cycle. My first salt tank had a very straightforward cycling.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

With live work, the ammonia might not be going to nitrate via autotrophic bacteria but consumed by heterotrophic bacteria.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Showing ammonia decline substantially (need not be zero, but 2 ppm to 0.25 ppm is fine). is the only aspect of the nitrogen cycle to focus on. Don't worry about nitrite or nitrate.

 

[Teeter]

Showing ammonia decline substantially (need not be zero, but 2 ppm to 0.25 ppm is fine). is the only aspect of the nitrogen cycle to focus on. Don't worry about nitrite or nitrate.

So I suppose I should just be testing for ammonia; dosing to 2ppm, then testing again 24 hours later, and repeating just to be certain it’s being processed?

 

[brandon429]

no, a single drop is enough. multiple verifications does not make the cycle better at all.

 

[Teeter]

no, a single drop is enough. multiple verifications does not make the cycle better at all.

Gotcha, thanks

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So I suppose I should just be testing for ammonia; dosing to 2ppm, then testing again 24 hours later, and repeating just to be certain it’s being processed?

Once is fine.

 

[splunty]

So I suppose I should just be testing for ammonia; dosing to 2ppm, then testing again 24 hours later, and repeating just to be certain it’s being processed?

One more thing, just to avoid any confusion as you progress: Testing nitrites in the saltwater hobby is mostly pointless. Nitrites interfere with nitrate testing. You can't trust nitrate test results until nitrites are basically zero. Once your nitrites test zero for a week or two, just throw that test kit away and then start testing nitrates.

 

[Teeter]

One more thing, just to avoid any confusion as you progress: Testing nitrites in the saltwater hobby is mostly pointless. Nitrites interfere with nitrate testing. You can't trust nitrate test results until nitrites are basically zero. Once your nitrites test zero for a week or two, just throw that test kit away and then start testing nitrates.

Ah ok. Honestly I'm more familiar with freshwater cycling so I'm still in that mindset lol. Thank you!

 

[Monad]

One more thing, just to avoid any confusion as you progress: Testing nitrites in the saltwater hobby is mostly pointless. Nitrites interfere with nitrate testing. You can't trust nitrate test results until nitrites are basically zero. Once your nitrites test zero for a week or two, just throw that test kit away and then start testing nitrates.

The only reason I’m testing nitrites now is to make sure that my nitrifying bacteria are doing their job.

Just added some bottled bacteria yesterday after accidentally stalling my cycle with way too much ammonia. Ammonia has not visibly changed but nitrite went from around 0.05ppm to around 0.1ppm so the cycle has started. Hopefully it picks up exponentially.

The wait is killing me.

 

[Teeter]

Decided to go to my lfs today just to have them test my water for a second opinion. Surprise surprise, their readings were 0ppm nitrate, 0ppm ammonia, and 0ppm nitrite. We discussed ghost feeding as an alternative so I added half a cube of frozen mysis, and we’ll see if there’s any difference. Also added some more bottled bacteria and a few more pounds of live rock (decided I had some vertical space I needed to fill). Maybe I’ll actually see some numbers this time lol

 

[PharmrJohn]

Decided to go to my lfs today just to have them test my water for a second opinion. Surprise surprise, their readings were 0ppm nitrate, 0ppm ammonia, and 0ppm nitrite. We discussed ghost feeding as an alternative so I added half a cube of frozen mysis, and we’ll see if there’s any difference. Also added some more bottled bacteria and a few more pounds of live rock (decided I had some vertical space I needed to fill). Maybe I’ll actually see some numbers this time lol

You've added enough bacteria. That live rock and sand will pick up and work at it very soon. I would suggest that you do not rush things. If you were to ghost feed for say, 6 to 8 weeks, your bacterial colonization will cover most surfaces. And don't turn on your lights for the same amount of time. Myself, when I cycle, I'm ghost feeding x2 months and lights off for 2.5 months. I gonna try to avoid the ugly phase altogether.

 

[Teeter]

You've added enough bacteria. That live rock and sand will pick up and work at it very soon. I would suggest that you do not rush things. If you were to ghost feed for say, 6 to 8 weeks, your bacterial colonization will cover most surfaces. And don't turn on your lights for the same amount of time. Myself, when I cycle, I'm ghost feeding x2 months and lights of for 2.5 months. I gonna try to avoid the ugly phase altogether.

Trust me, I don’t wanna rush things and have something go wrong. Not turning on lights either for that reason.

 

[PharmrJohn]

Trust me, I don’t wanna rush things and have something go wrong. Not turning on lights either for that reason.

Coolio man. Yeah, A LOT of people do. And they run into a myriad of issues because of it. And then we get threads posted to solve said issues.......

 

[Teeter]

Coolio man. Yeah, A LOT of people do. And they run into a myriad of issues because of it. And then we get threads posted to solve said issues.......

For sure, as someone that’s been in freshwater forums for years dealing with those same types of threads, it gets tiring lol. People just gotta be patient.

 

[Teeter]

Quick update: on Monday (9/30) I tested 0 ppm ammonia and 18.1ppm nitrate! Yesterday (10/1) I was still at 0ppm ammonia, and now had 30.0ppm nitrate. Obviously we’re making progress using ghost feeding. Makes me wonder why the ammonium chloride wasn’t working, but oh well.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Quick update: on Monday (9/30) I tested 0 ppm ammonia and 18.1ppm nitrate! Yesterday (10/1) I was still at 0ppm ammonia, and now had 30.0ppm nitrate. Obviously we’re making progress using ghost feeding. Makes me wonder why the ammonium chloride wasn’t working, but oh well.

I can think of several reasons why nitrate did not show when you dosed ammonia, and IMO, it reflect the problems of using nitrate as a gauge of cycling. Simple consumption and incorporation of the N into bacteria and other microorganisms and algae could explain why a few ppm ammonia didn't result in nitrate.