Clownfish pair in distress

FinnyBusiness

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Hey everyone,

I just made an account here but I follow the forum for a while now, since my fiancé and I have an aquarium since the beginning of May. He just posted our build on his thread (which I also linked on my profile here).

Anyways, while all seems to go quite well in our DT, in our recently set up QT we have 2 clownfish since last week, one of which unfortunately died yesterday. The other one is still alive but in very visible distress and I would like your help to (of course) try to save it if possible or (worst case scenario) learn the lessons that would avoid this in the future. Here goes the timeline of events with some pictures...

Quarantine Tank
5.28 gallons (20 L)
Heater: Tetra HT150
Filter: Fluval C3 Clip-On
Airstone/Airfilter - 3D printed with filter watting and an air pump
+ a couple of PVC pipes*

* they were floating which suggests we didn't buy the correct ones so we put one small stone inside it to weigh it down.

Day 1 (3rd of September):
Setting up of the quarantine tank: we filled it with water (osmose mixed with ProReef Salt).

Day 2:
We added food flakes (microbe-lift marine flakes) and a product for denitrification (Special Blend), and then also the starter bacteria (Nite-Out II) all from Arka Biotechnologie.
We were following the guide from Arka to set-up a tank (unfortunately only in German here).

Day 3:
Observation. Added Nite-Out, always following the abovementioned guide.
Got 2 small clownfish from the LFS, and added to the QT.
We kept them in the dark for 1.5 hours in a bowl floating in the QT to adjust the temperature while adding a bit of the QT water every 4-5 minutes, 6x before setting them free in the QT.
At the LFS they looked lively and were in a tank with several other clownfish that also looked fine.
In our QT they looked stressed out from the change but responsive and were swimming more calmly after a while.
20240907_150411.jpg



Day 4:
Measured Ammonia (below 0.1 ppm). Added Nite-Out.
We offered them food, frozen* mysis with garlic - they did not seem interested and avoided the pieces of food in the water. Later on we offered some food flakes but they also did not want it.

* defrosted and washed

We noticed a white thread coming from one of the fish (the one who dies on day 6). I found a post here that listed a few possible causes and figured it was maybe the last thing they ate at the LFS (wishful thinking much?! :disappointed-face:)

20240906_111705.jpg


At night, the fish started to look more apathic: more specifically, both of them were swimming low close to the bottom of the tank always in the same spot (behind the airstone). We observed that sometimes they rested their bodies on the bottom of the tank but we did not think much of it.

Day 5:
In the morning the fish looked exactly like they had been the previous night - not so active but up till that point, we were not worried.
We offered food again (same things) and they did not eat. Added Nite-Out.
I took the airstone out for a couple of hours, because I felt the water might have been too "troubled" and that might have been stressing them out.

around 7pm:
At night things really went sour. I saw one fish upside down, I went to turn on the light to see better and when I came back it was looking normal (upright) so I thought I had probably seen it wrong.

around 10 pm:
one of them was now definitely in distress and having much trouble staying upright. It was often vertical or upside down, breathing heavily. Every now and then, it would swim really fast and jump up out the water a couple of times before sinking to the bottom again.
I panicked, did not know how to help. And we decided to do a water change.

20240907_214550(0).jpg





around 11pm:
after mixing the salt water and letting it dissolve, I made a 5 L (1.3 gallons) water change. From this moment on, there were no lights in the room anymore - before there was low light only to allow me to see and work in the tank.
Half an hour later it was dead.

Day 6 (today):
In the morning, the remaining clownfish started showing signs of distress as well. Same signs shown by the other one but delayed by around 9 hours.
I panicked again. We were afraid that it might have been the water that was "wrong" somehow so we decided to take some water from our DT and put the fish inside. I did it (see in the pic below, the water in the bowl is from our DT). I don't know exactly what I was expecting with this, it was a desperate measure - I honestly just felt extremely helpless and wanted to do something to help the little guy.
We also measured Nitrate (below 0.025 ppm).

20240908_180413.jpg





The fish is still alive, but this does not look promising at all. It is laying sideways on the bottom of the bowl, breathing heavily.

Urgent question:
Is there something that can be done?

Remaining questions:
Is there something we missed?
Did we make any huge mistakes?
Is there something we could have done before? 20240907_214550(0).jpg
 
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FinnyBusiness

FinnyBusiness

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Short update:

we tried a freshwater dip to see if it helps somehow, and released the clownfish back into the QT - so it is not in the bowl anymore.

The situation is, however, still the same. @Liftoff
 

MnFish1

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Apologetically - I would not do freshwater dips without a clear reason .. Second. You didn't quarantine your fish - and I assume - that was on purpose - and that you did the appropriate research beforehand. Si o it's silly to answer as if you were following the common recommendation There is nothing else to say - but. it was probably a parasite - and it got ahead of you.
 

george9

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This seems to me like it could be a cycling problem. You said ammonia was >.1 PPM which implies there is some present. You added the fish without any established live rock or filter media from the DT or did I miss this part? I would add something from your established DT ASAP like a few pieces of rubble, filter media or even a bit of sand and also dose Seachem Prime every 24 hours to detoxify any ammonia.

It could be a parasite problem as well, but to me it seems the fish were struggling with ammonia.
 

AetherealKnight

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White stringy poop suggests internal parasite. I’m sorry that he passed away assuming the other clown is alive, you should start to treat him using pellets or flakes soaked in metroplex. I suggest you also treat him in copper and prazi pro if he still lives.
 
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FinnyBusiness

FinnyBusiness

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Apologetically - I would not do freshwater dips without a clear reason .. Second. You didn't quarantine your fish - and I assume - that was on purpose - and that you did the appropriate research beforehand. Si o it's silly to answer as if you were following the common recommendation There is nothing else to say - but. it was probably a parasite - and it got ahead of you.
Hey @MnFish1 thank you for the feedback! Maybe I misunderstood you/didn't express myself well...but all this happened in the quarantine tank, while we attempted to quarantine them. We were trying to follow the recommendation and something went wrong before we could even start with the copper treatment, because the fish were not eating and their condition sunk very fast. The 1st Clownfish went from looking ok, but refusing to eat to dead in less than 7 hours.

As to the freshwater dip, we thought the 2nd clownfish could have something in the gils preventing it to breathe properly and saw this as a recommendation here.

But in the end of the day, yeah...regardless of how much research we did, we are ill informed and that's precisely why I came here for help.

In any case, I really appreciate your reply and I will do research on parasites so that next time I will be more prepared. :)

@george9 , thank you for the feedback! Yeah, I was suspecting it has something to do with the water. Salinity, Ammonia and Nitrate were within normal values though. Ammonia was less than 0.1 ppm

And no, we didn't add any live rock from the DT - and to be honest here, we read through different quarantine recommendations and were a bit confused by it. So we followed the indications that came with the products we bought where we live (Germany). But I will add something from the DT now!

@AetherealKnight , thank you for the feedback! Ok, yeah this was one of the possible causes I read here. Alright, he's struggling a lot now, but still alive. Sadly no shops are open in Germany on Sundays, but tomorrow we'll look into getting some medication. This is an important thing, to have medication handy in case it is needed.
 

george9

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Hey @MnFish1 thank you for the feedback! Maybe I misunderstood you/didn't express myself well...but all this happened in the quarantine tank, while we attempted to quarantine them. We were trying to follow the recommendation and something went wrong before we could even start with the copper treatment, because the fish were not eating and their condition sunk very fast. The 1st Clownfish went from looking ok, but refusing to eat to dead in less than 7 hours.

As to the freshwater dip, we thought the 2nd clownfish could have something in the gils preventing it to breathe properly and saw this as a recommendation here.

But in the end of the day, yeah...regardless of how much research we did, we are ill informed and that's precisely why I came here for help.

In any case, I really appreciate your reply and I will do research on parasites so that next time I will be more prepared. :)

@george9 , thank you for the feedback! Yeah, I was suspecting it has something to do with the water. Salinity, Ammonia and Nitrate were within normal values though. Ammonia was less than 0.1 ppm

And no, we didn't add any live rock from the DT - and to be honest here, we read through different quarantine recommendations and were a bit confused by it. So we followed the indications that came with the products we bought where we live (Germany). But I will add something from the DT now!

@AetherealKnight , thank you for the feedback! Ok, yeah this was one of the possible causes I read here. Alright, he's struggling a lot now, but still alive. Sadly no shops are open in Germany on Sundays, but tomorrow we'll look into getting some medication. This is an important thing, to have medication handy in case it is needed.

You can often get away with using just the bacterial products but sometimes it just isn't enough. I like to keep a little floss and some rubble in my DT for worst case scenarios just in case I need to quickly set up a quarantine. A ammonia detoxifier like seachem prime can really help in these scenarios too. I like to use an Ammonia Alert when I need to set up a quarantine as well which can notify of ammonia issues with a color change.

As for the white poop, it is possible it was an internal parasite but IME, every single clownfish I have ever owned has exhibited this at some point and none of them ever had an internal parasite. The pair I have now even has this on and off. Sometimes my male gets a minor stomach irritation from too many pellets and he stops eating for a day, passes white poop and then resumes normal behavior. He's been with me for 2 years now. Clownfish are notorious for these random and weird poops and often their behavior is just as wacky and unexplainable. If they aren't eating due to water conditions or stress, white poop could just be passage of intestinal mucus because they literally have no food in their bodies. Internal parasites do not kill in a few days time, especially not fish of healthy weight like these.
 
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FinnyBusiness

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Hey guys, the little clownfish did not make it. We are very sad and we learned a lot from our mistakes. We will for now just focus collecting information about the whole process to try and learn how to do better in the future. I guess at the moment we think we got something fundamentally wrong on how to prepare a quarantine tank, so I'll read up on that and make sure to have some rubble in the DT like you recommended, @george9

With that in mind, I really, really want to thank all of you who took the time to try and help here. We hope that maybe this thread is also helpful to other people...
 

vetteguy53081

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Hey everyone,

I just made an account here but I follow the forum for a while now, since my fiancé and I have an aquarium since the beginning of May. He just posted our build on his thread (which I also linked on my profile here).

Anyways, while all seems to go quite well in our DT, in our recently set up QT we have 2 clownfish since last week, one of which unfortunately died yesterday. The other one is still alive but in very visible distress and I would like your help to (of course) try to save it if possible or (worst case scenario) learn the lessons that would avoid this in the future. Here goes the timeline of events with some pictures...

Quarantine Tank
5.28 gallons (20 L)
Heater: Tetra HT150
Filter: Fluval C3 Clip-On
Airstone/Airfilter - 3D printed with filter watting and an air pump
+ a couple of PVC pipes*

* they were floating which suggests we didn't buy the correct ones so we put one small stone inside it to weigh it down.

Day 1 (3rd of September):
Setting up of the quarantine tank: we filled it with water (osmose mixed with ProReef Salt).

Day 2:
We added food flakes (microbe-lift marine flakes) and a product for denitrification (Special Blend), and then also the starter bacteria (Nite-Out II) all from Arka Biotechnologie.
We were following the guide from Arka to set-up a tank (unfortunately only in German here).

Day 3:
Observation. Added Nite-Out, always following the abovementioned guide.
Got 2 small clownfish from the LFS, and added to the QT.
We kept them in the dark for 1.5 hours in a bowl floating in the QT to adjust the temperature while adding a bit of the QT water every 4-5 minutes, 6x before setting them free in the QT.
At the LFS they looked lively and were in a tank with several other clownfish that also looked fine.
In our QT they looked stressed out from the change but responsive and were swimming more calmly after a while.
20240907_150411.jpg



Day 4:
Measured Ammonia (below 0.1 ppm). Added Nite-Out.
We offered them food, frozen* mysis with garlic - they did not seem interested and avoided the pieces of food in the water. Later on we offered some food flakes but they also did not want it.

* defrosted and washed

We noticed a white thread coming from one of the fish (the one who dies on day 6). I found a post here that listed a few possible causes and figured it was maybe the last thing they ate at the LFS (wishful thinking much?! :disappointed-face:)

20240906_111705.jpg


At night, the fish started to look more apathic: more specifically, both of them were swimming low close to the bottom of the tank always in the same spot (behind the airstone). We observed that sometimes they rested their bodies on the bottom of the tank but we did not think much of it.

Day 5:
In the morning the fish looked exactly like they had been the previous night - not so active but up till that point, we were not worried.
We offered food again (same things) and they did not eat. Added Nite-Out.
I took the airstone out for a couple of hours, because I felt the water might have been too "troubled" and that might have been stressing them out.

around 7pm:
At night things really went sour. I saw one fish upside down, I went to turn on the light to see better and when I came back it was looking normal (upright) so I thought I had probably seen it wrong.

around 10 pm:
one of them was now definitely in distress and having much trouble staying upright. It was often vertical or upside down, breathing heavily. Every now and then, it would swim really fast and jump up out the water a couple of times before sinking to the bottom again.
I panicked, did not know how to help. And we decided to do a water change.

20240907_214550(0).jpg





around 11pm:
after mixing the salt water and letting it dissolve, I made a 5 L (1.3 gallons) water change. From this moment on, there were no lights in the room anymore - before there was low light only to allow me to see and work in the tank.
Half an hour later it was dead.

Day 6 (today):
In the morning, the remaining clownfish started showing signs of distress as well. Same signs shown by the other one but delayed by around 9 hours.
I panicked again. We were afraid that it might have been the water that was "wrong" somehow so we decided to take some water from our DT and put the fish inside. I did it (see in the pic below, the water in the bowl is from our DT). I don't know exactly what I was expecting with this, it was a desperate measure - I honestly just felt extremely helpless and wanted to do something to help the little guy.
We also measured Nitrate (below 0.025 ppm).

20240908_180413.jpg





The fish is still alive, but this does not look promising at all. It is laying sideways on the bottom of the bowl, breathing heavily.

Urgent question:
Is there something that can be done?

Remaining questions:
Is there something we missed?
Did we make any huge mistakes?
Is there something we could have done before? 20240907_214550(0).jpg
The clown on right is moribund and will likely not eat or swim normal moving forward. The other if it is a wild caught species may have systematic issues such as bacterial, brook or even dietary as they appear a little thin.
Since in QT already, add Ruby Rally pro to the tank which is universal with many clown issues and feed mysis without garlic which can change the flavor, brine shrimp and LRS nano frenzy
 

george9

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Hey guys, the little clownfish did not make it. We are very sad and we learned a lot from our mistakes. We will for now just focus collecting information about the whole process to try and learn how to do better in the future. I guess at the moment we think we got something fundamentally wrong on how to prepare a quarantine tank, so I'll read up on that and make sure to have some rubble in the DT like you recommended, @george9

With that in mind, I really, really want to thank all of you who took the time to try and help here. We hope that maybe this thread is also helpful to other people...
Sorry to hear :crying-face:
 

Jay Hemdal

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Sorry to hear. Two things come to mind - that the clowns had a hidden illness when you bought them OR there was an acclimation problem. Do you know the specific gravity they came in versus that of your tank? A rise in specific gravity between tanks can be tricky.
 

Liftoff

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We did not measure the specific gravity they came in, however, did a slow acclimation to the salinity in the QT.
We want to set it up again now. What should we do differently besides looking closer at the acclimation next time?
Use the water from the display? Add filter wadding from the display? Any help improving this process is very welcomed!
 

crazyfishmom

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We did not measure the specific gravity they came in, however, did a slow acclimation to the salinity in the QT.
We want to set it up again now. What should we do differently besides looking closer at the acclimation next time?
Use the water from the display? Add filter wadding from the display? Any help improving this process is very welcomed!
Many times fish are kept in water between 1.019 to 1.021 at LFS. Even if you drip acclimate, if you go from 1.019 to 1.026 within 1.5 hr this can hurt the fish and even kill them.

The recommendation is to go no more than 2 notches up (1.021 to 1.023) per day over the course of a few days. It is recommended that you would measure the salinity of the water in the bag with the fish and then adjust your water to match and increase over the course of two to three days to match your desired salinity.
 

Jay Hemdal

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We did not measure the specific gravity they came in, however, did a slow acclimation to the salinity in the QT.
We want to set it up again now. What should we do differently besides looking closer at the acclimation next time?
Use the water from the display? Add filter wadding from the display? Any help improving this process is very welcomed!

Key to a proper acclimation is knowing the specific gravity of both your tank and the water the fish came in. In some cases, you need to adjust your tank's SG down to match the incoming water. Drip acclimation is very difficult to do correctly, and you need to measure the SG during the process.

Here is an article I wrote on acclimation:


Now, that may not have been the issue here, but I can't rule it out, and you want to ensure going forward that you handle acclimation as well as possible.
 

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