Classroom tank size and budget

[TigerReefs]

Hi all, been lurking for awhile, but it's time to take the plunge. I teach chemistry and physics at a high school in upstate NY. Just added a 20 gallon freshwater tank this year, and it's been a wonderful addition. I'm in the middle of writing a grant right now for the setup and 12-month costs to run the tank. The grants are within the district - a group offers several grants for innovative ideas. The limit is $1500, with the option for more in year 2. I don't mind spending some of my own money, because it's become a hobby for me as well, but that's sort of the soft limit. The goal would be 2-4 fish, softies/zoas/LPS and taking the slow-and-steady approach.

Three questions:
1. I can cover holidays. I planned to leave a larger tank at school over summer and visit often (I'm close enough to drive). But the summer is off-limits for a couple years (asbestos abatement). After that, they can keep my room A/C'd for the tanks. I assume moving the tank for summers (15-minute drive) is doable, but not recommended long-term?
2. For year-1, moving the tank, any recommendations on size? I had planned for a 20-gallon long tank or larger. But now I'm wondering if something like the IM 15 cube may be a better option for starting out, and maybe easier for moving? I'm looking for something large enough to attract the kids attention, small enough to move the tank.
3. What am I looking at for monthly expenses? Let's assume I have a good idea what the tank setup will cost, as well as a livestock budget and salt. What about food, medicines and other chemicals? Obviously with living animals you can't anticipate everything, but I'm hoping there's a rough estimate I can sue here. I have access to ro/di water and utility costs are irrelevant.

If things go well, I'd love to upgrade to something more permanent in the future. I have a lot of great students, who go on to take advanced chemistry, physics, bio and/or environmental science. I think something like this could really motivate some kids. Thanks for any help.

 

[MoshJosh]

1. Moving the tank will be a pain. . . and if you are running sand it may generally be a bad idea.

2. An all-in-one style tank (like the IM) is user friendly and looks nice. I think this is a good option for a classroom. Though it does make the equipment and "how it works" difficult to see, so if that was part of the teaching aspect, it is something to think about?. . . maybe, I'm not a teacher.

3. Will mostly depend on how much water you are changing and your source of RO water. Food will be fairly negligible in comparison (I think. . . I only feed frozen these days and that can be a bit pricier I think. . .)

Some general thoughts (keep in mind I am no expert. . . just some guy on the internet):

You need an auto feeder and an auto top off (reliable ones). Ideally you would sync the auto feeder with a timer for the return pump so that the return is off when the food is added to the tank and turns back on after the fish have had enough time to eat (or get some type of fancy controller, but I think that would be outside of the budget). I would use course filter media to limit clogging when you are away, and I would run little to no mechanical filtration if you are going to be away for a while.

Again I am no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt. . .

Bump

 

[RocketEngineer]

The simplest setup I ever had was a 40B in my office at work. There were just 6 items in the powers strip: Lights in a mechanical timer, a heater, two flow pumps, the ATO, and a Tunze internal skimmer. I wanted it to be as simple as possible as I had to leave it for weekends or holidays. For yours, I suggest something similar.

Personally, I’m not a fan of small tanks as I think they are harder to keep stable. A 40B may sound big but I easily moved that around myself. The stand was metal but broke down into pieces easy enough to move.

My ATO used a 7 gallon water jug. This gave me lots of time between refills, even in the summer. Going away for a week wasn’t an issue. And by using an internal skimmer, I didn’t have to worry as much about it overflowing outside the tank.

If you’re going to be moving the tank, I suggest a FOWLR vs getting corals. It would be much easier to just throw the rock in a bucket, drain the tank, catch the fish, then scoop the sand into its own bucket for cleaning before setting it back up.

I think it’s doable, just going to cost some up front and take some planning.

 

[toi_ss]

I would go with a 40 breeder, drop in aio kit or a tidal 110, 1-2 jebao rw-4s, cobalt heater and 2x 60w noopsyche minis for lighting. Not sure about livestock but kids love clownfish.

 

[TigerReefs]

1. Moving the tank will be a pain. . . and if you are running sand it may generally be a bad idea.

Thanks for all the suggestions and input. Currently in-between "wait a year" when I can leave the tank, and the bare-bottom idea. I've heard people moving houses often just vacuum out the sand and purchase new sand later. Perhaps going BB in the beginning would make moving it easier, and I could add sand after the tank becomes permanent?

The simplest setup I ever had was a 40B in my office at work. There were just 6 items in the powers strip: Lights in a mechanical timer, a heater, two flow pumps, the ATO, and a Tunze internal skimmer. I wanted it to be as simple as possible as I had to leave it for weekends or holidays. For yours, I suggest something similar.

I like the idea of the 40b size and 'simplicity.' Not sure about moving something that big, but again, it sounds like it may be only 1 summer. Thanks for the equipment ideas.

 

[WetPringleChip]

I'm going to let you know something I think you’ll love. I was an awful chemistry student but… you don’t need to go fancy. Ive moved my tank twice with no problems and there is an easy way to involve your students. I love this! I never got to do anything with my teachers reef tank besides look.

BIGGEST THING Like I said ive moved my tank twice only because the entire rock structure is cemented together and it lifts out in one go. All my corals (besides a rack or 2) and my entire scape lifted up, out, bucket, then into the new tank when I set it up. Id be more than happy to show you.

Second most important is water quality and this is where your CHEMISTRY comes in!! I havent dont a water change in 2 years. You can teach or just donit yourself… but dosing is cheap!! Dosing trace elements, calc, mag, alk. The basics…. You can keep euphyllia, and all those softies. Especially having your water consistently tested or dosed vs my once a week half cheeked blind dosing based off of looks. I dont even test… imagine if you and your students did! Youd have sps growing like nuts.

My set up is quite cheap. I dont mind pming the basics but its modular and all controlled from the phone (not as fancy as the 1000$+ newer things) but still decent for a little set up. Your coral will probably be donated bc reefers love this. You need to run it barebottom. Using narrow tubing or any drip acclimation kit is enough to suction particles that come off the rock, detritus, etc off the bottom. Thats the biggest thing. Barebottom allows you to keep your tank cleaner and wave makers push 95% of surface area debris up and into your over flow filter sock.

Im so excited to see this thread update over time. Seriously, dont be afraid a million other people and me can help ya with your moving or whatever problems you encounter.

Now if you choose water changes, you can still test and balance the water to match your desired parameters for your corals but I find it easier to just squirt a couple ml’s here and there.

Also (id recommend a 15-20 cube) anything bigger than that and the rock structure would be so heavy to pull out.

 

[TigerReefs]

My set up is quite cheap. I dont mind pming the basics but its modular and all controlled from the phone

Hey man, thanks for all the ideas. I'd definitely be interested to hear about your setup. I just saw you updated your tank thread, and your coral all look super healthy.

And yeah, I think there are lots of ways to get kids involved. The idea of going BB is new to me, but I've otherwise been doing my research. At the moment I'm leaning towards starting with a standard 20-gallon long with a Tidal hob, a couple wave makers and the rest of the gear.

 

[WetPringleChip]

Hey man, thanks for all the ideas. I'd definitely be interested to hear about your setup. I just saw you updated your tank thread, and your coral all look super healthy.

And yeah, I think there are lots of ways to get kids involved. The idea of going BB is new to me, but I've otherwise been doing my research. At the moment I'm leaning towards starting with a standard 20-gallon long with a Tidal hob, a couple wave makers and the rest of the gear.

I saw the 1500 price ya got and thats more than enough even if you go for a rimless set up! Current usa is a great modular set up and bulk reef supply sells full kits (upgraded return, good wave maker, blue tooth module, a great light similar to ai or others (ofc not as crazy but still more than enough)) i got mine for 200 or 250, add the tank, possible a second wave maker. Add a heater, (go to lowes and buy a glass lid for like 3 bucks to reduce that evaporation if you dont want to keep filling an ato with water from a LFS) there are a ton of ways to keep you with less trips to LFS, less equipment, etc. just need a good plan and what to ask. I would spend most of the budget on a good set up. Making it modular and easy to control d/t you being a teacher. You have things to do, and not a ton of time to spend on little tasks here and there. Oh i gotta run the RO system and turn it off, oh i gotta run to the lfs for salt water, etc. I do supply runs maybe 1-2 times a year and have been using the same 50 dollar dosing bundle for 2 and still havent used half. Your maintenance won’t be a lot at all. Unless you go designer corals and fish I dont think youll have trouble getting freebies from facebook local groups, possible LFS sponsors, or just super cheap online sales like AquaSD does. But if youre moving the tank around I would highly recommend that concreted rock you can just lift out and into a cooler or something on a bare bottom system (barebottom sounds scary but I swear it cycles just the same) just have some bio media in the back for surface area

I think chemistry and teaching proper parameter levels alongside showing them dosing and how to calculate it would be awesome. I wouldve loved that so much more than molar mass and all that jazz i learned for a semester then forgot instantly.

 

[WetPringleChip]

Hey man, thanks for all the ideas. I'd definitely be interested to hear about your setup. I just saw you updated your tank thread, and your coral all look super healthy.

And yeah, I think there are lots of ways to get kids involved. The idea of going BB is new to me, but I've otherwise been doing my research. At the moment I'm leaning towards starting with a standard 20-gallon long with a Tidal hob, a couple wave makers and the rest of the gear.

If u wanna chat on any outlet and figure out the gear possibilities and things you might want on hand for emergencies. Let me know. We can get a list of everything with prices and kind of your out look for how u want it to end up.

 

[TigerReefs]

We can get a list of everything with prices and kind of your out look for how u want it to end up.

What am I missing here?
Tank:
20long $30 (sale)
Tidal 55 hob $60
Cobalt NeoTherm or Aqueon pro heater $40-55
Jebao wavemaker $50-60
Current Orbit IC 24" $150
CaribSea life rock 20 lb - $100+
ATO (no idea which?) - $90+
(add a cheap glass lid)
$540 for the tank setup

No dosing for now, softies and LPS I should be able to replace minerals with regular 20% water changes

Other Equipment:
Salt (150 gallons/year) $70
Brute 20g for rodi $35
Refractometer/hydrometer?
Coral Dip $20
Inkbird Temp Controller $40
Fish food
Coral food?
Test kits
Extra buckets
Power Strip

Livestock:
2-3 fish (1-2 clowns, maybe a blenny or goby if they work in a 20g long?)
Beginner corals
CUC

 

[NeedAReef]

camera from the tech team to steam the tank for other students to follow and be interested!

 

[Ben's Pico Reefing]

Honestly, you would benefit from a 5 gallon. Super easy to clean maintain. Do Bare bottom. 100 percent water changes as needed and you could keep some small fish like eviota goby, flaming prawn goby, neon goby, and there are some cool shrimp and inverts as well.

The goal would be to fit everything in one or two 5 gallon buckets could even go a little larger up to 10. I had a 5 gallon setup long time ago. I actually evacuated with it. Through everything in container that could move with holes and the rock work fit inside as well. Used battery air pump and took second 5 gallon bucket with fresh saltwater for water change if needed. Setup at hotel.

With a good lid and an air pump you would not need to worry about evaporation for a week even 2 or more and the air pump would provide oxygen exchange. If you can find a cylinder tank or container, the air pump will provide all the flow you need and will need to use a dial piece to restrict and adjust flow.

Wanting mainly soft coral, you could get away with fewer water changes. You could build the structure to displace more water and because it's round fish will have less restrictive space due to no 90 degree angles so safer.

You also won't need to go even close to the budget unless you want to get super fancy.

This all depends on what you want though. For bacteria establishment, you can use live rock which will have what you need and no wait or I have used fritz 900 turbo start for instant bacteria establishment.

Larger tanks though will provide more viewing options though and more room for different critters. 20 long would be good as well. More kids can view at once

 

[WetPringleChip]

What am I missing here?
Tank:
20long $30 (sale)
Tidal 55 hob $60
Cobalt NeoTherm or Aqueon pro heater $40-55
Jebao wavemaker $50-60
Current Orbit IC 24" $150
CaribSea life rock 20 lb - $100+
ATO (no idea which?) - $90+
(add a cheap glass lid)
$540 for the tank setup

No dosing for now, softies and LPS I should be able to replace minerals with regular 20% water changes

Other Equipment:
Salt (150 gallons/year) $70
Brute 20g for rodi $35
Refractometer/hydrometer?
Coral Dip $20
Inkbird Temp Controller $40
Fish food
Coral food?
Test kits
Extra buckets
Power Strip

Livestock:
2-3 fish (1-2 clowns, maybe a blenny or goby if they work in a 20g long?)
Beginner corals
CUC

The rock is usually 3 dollars a pound from my LFS, so 60 but 20 pounds is a lot youll see unless u buy just clumps. I recommend a couple bottles or big bottle of super glue gel. Gel specifically with cyanoacrilate i botched the spelling but that is like gorilla glue, etc. alongside a tube or 2 of epoxy cement (most reef shops, lfs, or online reef retailers have it). Buy small pieces and take your time in gluing then cement them all. Remember holes, arches, shelfs for your display. It allows for more movement with less rock.

Also dosing was a measure for cutting the cost of RODI filter system kit, RODI replacement filters, mixing buckets, salt, etc. i do it out of laziness because I used to mix my salt until I learned how easy it is to keep the base 3 elements in check bc they balance each other out alongside small bits of trace elements. (At this moment I have to dose for the amount of coral I have but I used to dose just for me it was more cost effective)

Youd have to add a RODI buddy, i think thats the cheapest rodi system unless someone sells water near you which is more money.

Ato is not needed for ya if you do a cheap glads lid that covers 90% or all of your tank. I drop a half a cup or a cup of water every few days with 15% of my surface area (back aio compartments uncovered bc of hob skimmer, light arm holder)

I run aquaforest test kits (also have the aqueon reef master but honestly Ive never used them bc if you take things somewhat slow, you know the tank is covering your ammonia, nitrates and nitrites and since you personally are water changing. Your phosphates shouldnt rise enough to matter unless youre feeding 2-3 times a day)

When I first started, i used the petco dip in vs a refractometer. Its like a cup almost wiht a needle. You dip in water and the needle points to your rough salinity which is all you need. Just remember to dunk it in fresh after so salt creep doesnt skew your results over time.

Ya dont need coral food but LFS does sell like 2-3 dollar frozen bags of food which is quite fun to feed to your fish as a treat and hand squirt small particles into softies. Great view for the kids.

You probably have these as a chemistry teacher but a set of aqua scaping tools is super handy. (The nano magnet scraper is super handy as well) But cheap and old school is nice. You need long pipets i prefer plastic, i feed with them, dose, collect pockets of detritus, etc. long metal tongs are super helpful. The amazon kits that are like 20-30 also come with algae scrapers with long handles that u can replace the blades on, turkey basters for blowing the rock junk build up.

Now my biggest concern is Ive ran mini coral flats in 20 gallon longs with an HOB. There is zero issue with that, just be prepared for clogs on the intakes, if the power runs out my hob quit running and burned itself out and i had to replace it, the filter compartment has not much filtration bc of the lack of flow to really push the water through the media, it also doesnt allow for poly fil. Poly fil is the bread and butter for me. Its a 4 dollar bag of pillow stuffing from walmart. I stick it in my filter socks because it clarifies and scrubs the water, it pulls large chunks vs it rotting in my sock and then clogging my next levels of filtration. HOB’s will detritus clog your media with time. It builds up then eleminates your surface area then leaches phosphates and nitrates. I learned that the hard way and was wondering why my corals started looking off.

Lets see Im thinking what else you can add, fish food is biased everywhere. I prefer pellets but other swear by flakes. That is completely up to you.

For live stock now. Fish is easy, least aggressive first. So a goby first and settle before clowns. Goby before grammas (royal gramma is an awesome choice btw). Clowns are last. As for if you want an anemone, youd need a wave maker cover and idk how thatd work with an HOB filter, but the nem would be easiest to introduce first before coral so it finds its spot and stays there vs running over your other corals and killing them lol.

Looks like u got the basics though. Always nice to have amazon on hand in case ya need something!

 

[cre1024]

Well this is fun! I also teach chemistry in upstate NY and started a reef tank this year too (mostly for my environmental class I was teaching).

I already had a 55g setup from the previous year, but I transitioned it from freshwater to brackish to saltwater this most recent school year. I got a lot of help from companies and local people, but a lot of it has been out of pocket for me.

Can't wait to hear about your setup and how it's going!