Chromis Damsel almost dying? MANY missing scales on bith sides and NOT uronema (i believe)

[Stephen8169301]

 

[MischiefReef]

LOL you are defending your answer.

IT IS THEFT

It does not matter if it is damaged or not. Buying something and using it with the intention to return it afterwards is theft. I don’t care if it is a dress, a garbage can, or a hammer. It drives he costs of good up and is wrong.

Good for you. Great way to seize on a trivial detail which I have even agreed was poor advice. Do you care at all about the fish emergency or are you just here to play policeman?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Good for you. Great way to seize on a trivial detail which I have even agreed was poor advice. Do you care at all about the fish emergency or are you just here to play policeman?

Ohh, I can't help the fish, Jay and other's are the experts. I was reading along to learn.

 

[Icryhard]

Ohh, I can't help the fish, Jay and other's are the experts. I was reading along to learn.

How is it theft? It's well within your right to use it and if you do not like the product, you can return it. A bin will be cleaned and be placed as new. No damage, nothing. You make use of your right.

Definition of theft: the act of stealing. specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property. : a stolen base in baseball.

I paid for it and returned it the same way I bought it within the given term.

 

[BeanAnimal]

How is it theft? It's well within your right to use it and if you do not like the product, you can return it. A bin will be cleaned and be placed as new. No damage, nothing. You make use of your right.

Definition of theft: the act of stealing. specifically : the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it. : an unlawful taking (as by embezzlement or burglary) of property. : a stolen base in baseball.

I paid for it and returned it.

That is not the way it works and to argue that is is legal, ethical, your right or acceptable is laughable and ignorant.

Where is the right to purchase an item with the sole intent to make use of it and return it after use enumerated? It is not a rental agreement. Your actions cost the store money, and you nothing.

That sir, is fraud. Specifically "return fraud" a form of theft. It is illegal and unethical.

 

[MnFish1]

1. Agree with @vetteguy53081 and @Jay Hemdal - I'm not sure there is infection - but rather injury.
2. The risk of treatment at this point - since it's a big injury is very small - and untreated the fish will not survive if it's an infection.
3. To me the fish look to be in general thin/not good condition (at least a couple of them0
4. FWIW - gram negative or gram positive are merely 2 results on a 'Gram stain' (done on a microscope slide). Gram negative bacteria stain one way, gram positive bacteria Stain another - ie. they are 2 broad bacterial categories. Staph, for example is gram positive, so is strep. Vibrio and Pseudomonas are examples of gram negative bacteria.

 

[Icryhard]

That is not the way it works and to argue that is is legal, ethical, your right or acceptable is laughable and ignorant.

Where is the right to purchase an item with the sole intent to make use of it and return it after use enumerated? It is not a rental agreement. Your actions cost the store money, and you nothing.

That sir, is fraud. Specifically "return fraud" a form of theft. It is illegal and unethical.

That would be, IF my sole intent is to use it and to return it. However OP stated: I mean technically you can even return the bins within 3 months so really doesn’t hurt. Keep it in mind for after the treatment!
OP never mentioned to go ahead and buy it, use it and then return it. "Technically you can even return the bins within 3 months".
So no, it's not theft. It's very much legal, ethical and within my rights. As I stated:
How is it theft? It's well within your right to use it and if you do not like the product, you can return it.
Notice the words "if you do not like the product, you can return it."

Nowhere did anyone tell the OP to buy the bins with the intent to return them afterwards.
Ignorant is when you try to frame words in such way to push your narrative.
Your actions cost the store money, and you nothing. - Not really a good argument, since they're screwing the very same people out of millions, yet you're nowhere to be found when they're screwing people out of millions, oh no-no-no-no. A bin, that's when you show up with your shining armor on a white horse.

You can choose to keep on clinging to this conversation now and pretend to be the lawyer of multi-billion companies who screw people like you and me, but I said what I said and regardless of what you think of my point of view, I am sticking to it.

 

[daniel_mourra]

Sorry - just woke up.

When I see one chromis with scale damage and hear that the other 2 are fine, I almost have to conclude it is from aggression. There may be secondary infection, but the first step would be to isolate the fish. However, the two remaining chromis may start fighting one another. People who have read my posts here know that I truly dislike this species in aquariums - prone to Uronema and shipping stress, if you get them through quarantine (I often lose 50%) then they often fight (despite being a "schooling" species).

I went back and looked at your past thread. Is the copper still going on? I think you should pump the brakes and not get any new fish until the current fish are stable.

Jay

Thank you! Yes the copper has stopped after the 14 days (unfortunatley i stopped it early due to the fact that i based 14 days upon BRSTV videos… good news is that the fish never presented any ich symptoms so it was just profilactic treatment… and yes… definitley breakes are pumped and no more fish arr planned in the next 3-4 moths….

currently the damsel is being treated witht he rest of the fish in the holding tank (55 gal) with kanaplex (9 scoops every 2 days max 3 doses)….. to see if the infection gets better….

would placing the damsel in the same tank but in an isolating cage work? I have a very big isolation box were she could be but would the stress of seing the other 2 damsels still be present by the fact that she is just separated by an acriclic bix but still in the same tank?

 

[MischiefReef]

That would be, IF my sole intent is to use it and to return it. However OP stated: I mean technically you can even return the bins within 3 months so really doesn’t hurt. Keep it in mind for after the treatment!
OP never mentioned to go ahead and buy it, use it and then return it. "Technically you can even return the bins within 3 months".
So no, it's not theft. It's very much legal, ethical and within my rights. As I stated:
How is it theft? It's well within your right to use it and if you do not like the product, you can return it.
Notice the words "if you do not like the product, you can return it."

Nowhere did anyone tell the OP to buy the bins with the intent to return them afterwards.
Ignorant is when you try to frame words in such way to push your narrative.
Your actions cost the store money, and you nothing. - Not really a good argument, since they're screwing the very same people out of millions, yet you're nowhere to be found when they're screwing people out of millions, oh no-no-no-no. A bin, that's when you show up with your shining armor on a white horse.

You can choose to keep on clinging to this conversation now and pretend to be the lawyer of multi-billion companies who screw people like you and me, but I said what I said and regardless of what you think of my point of view, I am sticking to it.

Thank you, I was beginning to wonder whether my wording seemed like that was the main point of my post. That really was completely an afterthought and I was really thinking more along the lines of OP probably won’t want a bunch of unused bins sitting around taking up room after the 2month fallow holding period, also better for the environment not to have these durable weather proof bins be single-used for 2 months and discarded?
Aside from that one statement of mine which BeanAnimal keeps clinging to, my main point wasn’t to post with the intention of giving advice on how to save a measly $30 on using a bin. I guess the above advice would have been better if I’d noted to the OP he could keep the bins for his SW premixes in the future, I have 3 premixed bins on hand at all times for maintenance and emergencies.
On a side note, my original advice can all still be done using livestock pool /water trough rentals, but those businesses are not as common or available to all and typically take a while longer to acquire the pool. OTH, would it then be more ethical to rent a pool typically used for watering livestock for holding SW fish, possibly medicated?
I admit perhaps none of these methods are “perfect” but given the OP’s 55 gallon tank’s stocking conditions that it may be the lesser of evils.

 

[MnFish1]

That would be, IF my sole intent is to use it and to return it. However OP stated: I mean technically you can even return the bins within 3 months so really doesn’t hurt. Keep it in mind for after the treatment!
OP never mentioned to go ahead and buy it, use it and then return it. "Technically you can even return the bins within 3 months".
So no, it's not theft. It's very much legal, ethical and within my rights. As I stated:
How is it theft? It's well within your right to use it and if you do not like the product, you can return it.
Notice the words "if you do not like the product, you can return it."

Nowhere did anyone tell the OP to buy the bins with the intent to return them afterwards.
Ignorant is when you try to frame words in such way to push your narrative.
Your actions cost the store money, and you nothing. - Not really a good argument, since they're screwing the very same people out of millions, yet you're nowhere to be found when they're screwing people out of millions, oh no-no-no-no. A bin, that's when you show up with your shining armor on a white horse.

You can choose to keep on clinging to this conversation now and pretend to be the lawyer of multi-billion companies who screw people like you and me, but I said what I said and regardless of what you think of my point of view, I am sticking to it.

First you have to remember that the majority of people (I think) are American) - the terms you're using may be misconstrued

 

[BeanAnimal]

Nowhere did anyone tell the OP to buy the bins with the intent to return them afterwards.

wording was pretty to the point, try again.

Ignorant is when you try to frame words in such way to push your narrative.

LoL, I didn’t try to frame his words or yours…. your response quoted below indicates as much.

Your actions cost the store money, and you nothing. - Not really a good argument, since they're screwing the very same people out of millions, yet you're nowhere to be found when they're screwing people out of millions, oh no-no-no-no. A bin, that's when you show up with your shining armor on a white horse.

Getting angry at me or big corporations does not change the reality (return fraud) or excuse it. I don’t care of it is the largest company on the planet or a private business with one employee. In the case of the giant company, did you ever stop to think that millions of people like you that abuse their policies highly contribute to their pricing and practices? These companies pay fortunes in insurance because of various forms of retail theft and frivolous lawsuits. Those costs go right back into the price of goods.

Sure nobody is going to arrest or fine you and you can argue all you wish, but that doesn’t make it right or legal or a victimless crime.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Thank you! Yes the copper has stopped after the 14 days (unfortunatley i stopped it early due to the fact that i based 14 days upon BRSTV videos… good news is that the fish never presented any ich symptoms so it was just profilactic treatment… and yes… definitley breakes are pumped and no more fish arr planned in the next 3-4 moths….

currently the damsel is being treated witht he rest of the fish in the holding tank (55 gal) with kanaplex (9 scoops every 2 days max 3 doses)….. to see if the infection gets better….

would placing the damsel in the same tank but in an isolating cage work? I have a very big isolation box were she could be but would the stress of seing the other 2 damsels still be present by the fact that she is just separated by an acriclic bix but still in the same tank?

I would think that the stress of the box would be less than the alternative of free swimming with them.

 

[Icryhard]

wording was pretty to the point, try again.

LoL, I didn’t try to frame his words or yours…. your response quoted below indicates as much.


Getting angry at me or big corporations does not change the reality (return fraud) or excuse it. I don’t care of it is the largest company on the planet or a private business with one employee. In the case of the giant company, did you ever stop to think that millions of people like you that abuse their policies highly contribute to their pricing and practices? These companies pay fortunes in insurance because of various forms of retail theft and frivolous lawsuits. Those costs go right back into the price of goods.

Sure nobody is going to arrest or fine you and you can argue all you wish, but that doesn’t make it right or legal or a victimless crime.

Stay mad, ramble more, doesn't make you right. You did try to frame and failed.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Stay mad, ramble more, doesn't make you right. You did try to frame and failed.

I am not mad at all. I responded directly to a post in this thread and you showed up as a 3rd party to that conversation and injected a poorly informed opinion (return fraud is your right) and even sillier justification (it’s ok because they are big corporations) of that opinion.

 

[MischiefReef]

I have since offered alternative suggestions to this initial advice. I get the desire to argue this out but this is a reefing forum and a fish emergency thread, not a consumer ethics thread. Can we just agree to drop it and stop hijacking the thread topic? Thanks!

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have since offered alternative suggestions to this initial advice. I get the desire to argue this out but this is a reefing forum and a fish emergency thread, not a consumer ethics thread. Can we just agree to drop it and stop hijacking the thread topic? Thanks!

Agreed - thanks for the clarifications and desire to keep things on track.

 

[Icryhard]

I am not mad at all. I responded directly to a post in this thread and you showed up as a 3rd party to that conversation and injected a poorly informed opinion (return fraud is your right) and even sillier justification (it’s ok because they are big corporations) of that opinion.

"poorly informed opinion", which wasn't true at all, I already pointed out as to why it's not a "poorly formed opinion". It's rather your comprehensive reading which lacks.
You responded to a post, completely irrelevant to the OP. So if you want to talk about "injecting" and whatnot, you should take a good, hard, look in the mirror. I never made any "justification" about big corporations either. I merely pointed out that you're here defending billion dollar companies over something which wasn't even said, because yet again, you lack comprehensive reading abillities. So yes, you actually are mad, and this already showed when the person you responded to decided to admit to something he didn't even say (because you, yet again, lacked comprehensive reading abillities) just for the sake of ending the discussion, only to have you ramble more and more about how he's defending something. Now, you can decide to argue, which I don't mind, or you can agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thank you! Yes the copper has stopped after the 14 days (unfortunatley i stopped it early due to the fact that i based 14 days upon BRSTV videos… good news is that the fish never presented any ich symptoms so it was just profilactic treatment… and yes… definitley breakes are pumped and no more fish arr planned in the next 3-4 moths….

currently the damsel is being treated witht he rest of the fish in the holding tank (55 gal) with kanaplex (9 scoops every 2 days max 3 doses)….. to see if the infection gets better….

would placing the damsel in the same tank but in an isolating cage work? I have a very big isolation box were she could be but would the stress of seing the other 2 damsels still be present by the fact that she is just separated by an acriclic bix but still in the same tank?

An isolation cage, if large enough would be helpful. The stress of just seeing the other damsels would be minimal.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you, I was beginning to wonder whether my wording seemed like that was the main point of my post. That really was completely an afterthought and I was really thinking more along the lines of OP probably won’t want a bunch of unused bins sitting around taking up room after the 2month fallow holding period, also better for the environment not to have these durable weather proof bins be single-used for 2 months and discarded?
Aside from that one statement of mine which BeanAnimal keeps clinging to, my main point wasn’t to post with the intention of giving advice on how to save a measly $30 on using a bin. I guess the above advice would have been better if I’d noted to the OP he could keep the bins for his SW premixes in the future, I have 3 premixed bins on hand at all times for maintenance and emergencies.
On a side note, my original advice can all still be done using livestock pool /water trough rentals, but those businesses are not as common or available to all and typically take a while longer to acquire the pool. OTH, would it then be more ethical to rent a pool typically used for watering livestock for holding SW fish, possibly medicated?
I admit perhaps none of these methods are “perfect” but given the OP’s 55 gallon tank’s stocking conditions that it may be the lesser of evils.

I don't want to dive into the argument - but I think the comment relates to the fish disease issue. IMHO, Returning anything to a store that is used with potentially or diseased fish is not a good idea. - the best environmental thing would be to keep them - because if you need them once you're probably going to need them again. Best case scenario - it's unethical and in certain jurisdictions illegal (fraudulent return).

 

[MischiefReef]

I don't want to dive into the argument - but I think the comment relates to the fish disease issue. IMHO, Returning anything to a store that is used with potentially or diseased fish is not a good idea. - the best environmental thing would be to keep them - because if you need them once you're probably going to need them again. Best case scenario - it's unethical and in certain jurisdictions illegal (fraudulent return).

Agreed, and yea I definitely keep the extra brutes that I’ve bought and used. Makes premixing, general maintenance and dealing with emergencies so much easier, I’ve also got a few just holding oversized equipment like light bars. I mean worst case scenario you could just use it as what it’s meant for (as a garbage bin) right? Haha!