Chloroquine phosphate

Reef Fever · Jan 12, 2016

Humblefish said:
Would love to hear more about your experiences using CP.

What diseases do you use it to treat for? How long does CP last in the water before it begins to degrade? Can you use a UV to remove CP from the water?

Also, do you use any light on the QT when treating with CP?

Absolutely! I'll offer up whatever I can!

First off, we use it essentially as a preventative QT protocol for all new fish. So in essence its to prevent all of which you have listed in your original post. Most commonly though could be crypt if you wanted me to be specific.

As far as degradation, we haven't done much testing in that department. We typically do a 30 day treatment. After those 30 days we use carbon and/or water changes to rid the system of CP. None of our QT systems are running UV so I can't offer much help in that aspect unfortunately. I have also heard the possibility that it is light sensitive but we do run lights on each of the systems. the 240 gallon systems run low wattage t5, and our 750's run 400W metal halides with PC bulbs. While running the lights we notice no significant change in the CP levels.

Now for my personal feelings on CP...I think it is an awesome drug. It is surely effective..however, some fish are too intolerant of it so to me it is similar to copper in a way. Smaller reef fish (anthias, basslets, butterflies, etc.) I have had do great for the initial week to two weeks, look totally fine and eating one day, and dead the next. Our protocol suggests the minimum concentration necessary to be effective is 10parts. But I would like to experiment with a lower dosage for more sensitive species to see if it would yield a higher survivability.

Humblefish · Jan 12, 2016

@jaws789832 CP is an FDA regulated drug; thus the reason for their apprehension writing the Rx.

@Reef Fever Cannot thank you enough for that information! Your continued participation in this thread and the fish disease forum in general would be most welcomed!

robert · Jan 12, 2016

jaws789832 said:
Funny story. I went to four different vets today to see if I could get my hands on some CP this is how it went at all of them. I was armed with printouts of some of the articles linked in this forum.

Me: I was wondering if you could write me a script for CP
Them: Sorry we cant write scripts for animals we don't see.
Me: Its for Qt'ing fish so its a preventative and a cure for ich and other parasites.
Them: We don't see fish
Me: I kind of figured that , that's why I didn't bring my fish in. But I would still like a script for CP.
Them: Sorry we don't write scripts for animals we don't see........

Of course that conversation is abridged but I just thought it was pretty funny how I went in circles with every one of them. Finally I talked to one who (after I went in circles) actually read the articles I brought in and was going to do a little research to see the legalities of writing a script for an animal she hasn't seen. Said she would get back to me on Friday with an answer so hopefully I can get my hands on some for my medicine cabinet and my Qt tank.

I guess I've been lucky. I bring pictures of the coral or fish - as well as a picture of what its supposed to look like along with a jug of pre-mixed saltwater into which I want them to mix the medication. I do this preemptively to allay any fear that I would misapply the medication - or that I would "stock my medicine cabinet". I think you'll find them more receptive this way depending on what your asking for - but YMMV.

cmcoker · Jan 13, 2016

robert said:
I guess I've been lucky. I bring pictures of the coral or fish - as well as a picture of what its supposed to look like along with a jug of pre-mixed saltwater into which I want them to mix the medication. I do this preemptively to allay any fear that I would misapply the medication - or that I would "stock my medicine cabinet". I think you'll find them more receptive this way depending on what your asking for - but YMMV.

Most vets won't have chloroquine phosphate in the office..

Something I haven't seen anyone mention when approaching the vet, you might might inquire about the cost of a house call to see the aquarium and be willing to at least pay for a visit, along with the literature supporting the med you are asking for.
Veterinarians have a legal obligation to have an existing client/patient/doctor relationship, but I would think if they saw your tank and you had documentation as to the use of the drug prophylacticly, it may fall under a "herd health" type situation. Where all the animals in the environment are treated for a parasite.

@Humblefish, when you say Chloroquine Phosphate is a FDA controlled substance, I assume you mean it is regulated by the FDA as many prescriptions drugs are. Not that it is a controlled substance, subject to DEA compliance. I hear controlled substance and it is confusing to me...

robert · Jan 13, 2016

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary...ce/JudiciousUseofAntimicrobials/ucm095473.htm

Veterinary oversight is required for the use of certain FDA-approved antimicrobials, or antimicrobials used in an extralabel manner. This direction may only take place within the context of a veterinarian-client-patient relationship (VCPR). As stipulated in the Code of Federal Regulations (21 CFR Part 530) a VCPR exists when all of the following conditions have been met:

When it is not possible to make a direct clinical evaluation of all affected animals, the diagnosis or need for antimicrobial use should be based on past experience, on knowledge of the facility’s epidemiological status, and historical and /or ongoing susceptibility testing.

A veterinarian has assumed the responsibility for making medical judgments regarding the health of (an) animal(s) and the need for medical treatment, and the client (the owner of the animal or animals or other caretaker) has agreed to follow the instructions of the veterinarian.
There is sufficient knowledge of the animal(s) by the veterinarian to initiate at least a general or preliminary diagnosis of the medical condition of the animal(s).
The practicing veterinarian is readily available for followup in case of adverse reactions or failure of the regimen of therapy. Such a relationship can exist only when the veterinarian has recently seen and is personally acquainted with the keeping and care of the animals(s) by virtue of examination of the animals(s), and/or by medically appropriate and timely visits to the premises where the animal(s) are kept.

Of course, invite your vet to make a house call, but it essential that your vet actually sees the animals that he or she is treating and the conditions in which they are kept. Thats why you always go with photographs in hand. As I said, YMMV - your vet has a lot of exposure treating without a direct assessment. Many won't...some will...I guess it comes down to the state you live in and your personal relationship with the vet.

Humblefish · Jan 13, 2016

cmcoker said:
@Humblefish, when you say Chloroquine Phosphate is a FDA controlled substance, I assume you mean it is regulated by the FDA as many prescriptions drugs are. Not that it is a controlled substance, subject to DEA compliance. I hear controlled substance and it is confusing to me...

You are absolutely right. I was confusing CP with embutramide (which is a Schedule 3 controlled substance); you can combine embutramide, CP, and lidocaine to euthanize dogs.

I will change it to read "requires a prescription".

Edit: Changed it to read this way: "Nowadays CP requires a prescription to purchase legitimately, making it more difficult to obtain."

mattcoug · Jan 15, 2016

Nowadays you can just get nls ich shield powder from amazon,etc. Why spend time going to a vet?

drstratton · Jan 15, 2016

@Humblefish How much CP do you use for treatment? I would like to be able to tell my vet when I go talk to him what the dosage is. It would be good to know how much to ask for! Thanks for your time!!!

Humblefish · Jan 15, 2016

mattcoug said:
Nowadays you can just get nls ich shield powder from amazon,etc. Why spend time going to a vet?

As per the company, NLS sources all their CP from China so it's purity can be unreliable.

drstratton said:
@Humblefish How much CP do you use for treatment? I would like to be able to tell my vet when I go talk to him what the dosage is. It would be good to know how much to ask for! Thanks for your time!!!

Standard dosage is 40mg/gal; so that's 1.2 grams every time I treated with it in my 30 gal QT. Sometimes I'll crank the dosage up to 60mg/gal when treating for velvet (probably not necessary though.)

drstratton · Jan 15, 2016

[/COLOR]
Standard dosage is 40mg/gal; so that's 1.2 grams every time I treated with it in my 30 gal QT. Sometimes I'll crank the dosage up to 60mg/gal when treating for velvet (probably not necessary though.)[/QUOTE]
Thank you! I will write this in my notebook!

jaws789832 · Jan 29, 2016

OK so my vet said that she was unable to write me a script right now. Said something about due to a malaria outbreak that this drug was no longer being prescribed by vets. Don't know if she was just trying to be nice or if there really is something to this. But anyways I did a search online found a place that had some out of NY. I talked to them and they said it was 99.9% pure. They also had a food that is laced with it that they claim is reef safe (but I question this). Think It can be trusted for a QT application?

cono · Jan 29, 2016

Not only can get it with script

robert · Jan 30, 2016

Currently there actually is a shortage...

http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/new_info/2015/chloroquine_shortage.htm

http://www.ashp.org/menu/DrugShortages/CurrentShortages/bulletin.aspx?id=1178

Humblefish · Jan 30, 2016

cono said:
Not only can get it with script

+1 Only way to ensure you are getting 99% pure. CP without a script usually means it came from China, where they can be a little lax about drug purity.

Reef Fever · Jan 30, 2016

Don't waste money on food with it. CP often leaves a very bitter taste in which most fish will not eat it

raultsu · Jan 30, 2016

should a bubbler be added when using CP?

Humblefish · Jan 30, 2016

raultsu said:
should a bubbler be added when using CP?

Yes. Or point a powerhead towards the surface of the water. Plenty of oxygen/gas exchange should be provided when using all medications.

jaws789832 · Jan 31, 2016

Don't know if I am allowed to post company names on here but the website I found, looks like his CP is manufactured by a company called Toku-e. It is a Japanese company that has moved to the states and to Belgium. They do state that all their meds are for in vitro research only and not for human or animal consumption. Not sure if using this in a Qt tank is violating those rules but the company looks legit. Maybe someone with more knowledge than me can check it out and see if there is a problem with using this in QT.

LukeV · Jan 31, 2016

@Reef Fever you said your testing the cp levels in your qt, how do you do this?
@Humblefish have you tested cp while running lights?

Thanks

Humblefish · Jan 31, 2016

@jaws789832 Thanks for the heads up. I'll give them a call to try to determine the source/purity of their CP.

@LukeV I've only used CP with the lights off.