Cheato sign, no3... bacto balance...no2. All in my head ?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am concerned that you are boosting potassium too much using large doses of potassium nitrate. Sodium or calcium nitrate, or some type of ammonia dosing would be better.

 

[Patx]

I am concerned that you are boosting potassium too much using large doses of potassium nitrate. Sodium or calcium nitrate, or some type of ammonia dosing would be better.

I don't need to use Kno3 anymore... since bacto balance (2-3 month), my no3 won't go down . Cheato acting strange...

The kno3 in this thread was just to make a solution to test my no3 test.
See quote, to clear up confusion. If confusions there was.

hello.
Before bacto... I was the type (tank/set up/pop/refugium) that can strip of no3 and po4 from the system. Dosing kno3 and kh2po4 daily to maintain some trace... (struggling)

I read that 1ppm no2 can make NO3 test at 100ppm.
I read that TM bacto balance can "reverse" NO3 to NO2...
I dose ~ 1ml bacto in 55g /day

Now, NO3 are stable around 20-26ppm since 2 months. (No more kno3 dosing)
Still dosing KH2PO4 0.03ppm/day

-Cheato are (i strongly think) give me sign of NO3 depletion...

-Caulerpa serulata was on the edge of "going sexual"...
could be because i reduce the light or NO3 related... picky algae...

but i never see cheato melt (bleach cause of the light... not for 20% increase/decrease).

Get to the point !
Maybe, i have NO2 0,25ppm (bacto balance) related
And NO3 0ppm ?

BUT ! The big question here...
Can cheato use NO2 instead of NO3 or not ? (I think yes)
____________________________________________________________

So I don't understand the sign...

Cheato green greyish weak on the edge of melting.
NO3 not going down.

Dosing daily:
3ml AFR (iron) (Alk stable 7,7)
1ml bacto
1ml mb7
+0.03ppm KH2PO4 mix

Help?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok, sounds good.

 

[Patx]

Wc, instead of ~ 9%... i change for ~18%...
Let's see how cheato react...

 

[Patx]

I'm not a fan of ever adding anything that you do not know what it is, such as bactobalance.

I do agree that right away I'd dose a trace element supplement containing iron and manganese.

Im ready to test some trace dosing.
I got this on hand, dry (old trace from fresh water)...

CSM+B

Guaranteed Minimum Analysis
Chelated Iron (Fe) (actual)	7%
Chelated Manganese (Mn) (actual)	2%
Chelated Zinc (Zn) (actual)	0.4%
Chelated Copper (Cu) (actual)	0.1%
Boron (B) (actual)	1.3%
Molybdenum (Mo) (actual)	0.06%
EDTA (Ethylene diamine tetraacetate)	42%
DTPA (Diethylene triamine pentaacetate)	14%

Can i used it ?

 

[Patx]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
It's not clear if EDTA and DTPA are a "good" idea.
I have so much on hand

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Im ready to test some trace dosing.
I got this on hand, dry (old trace from fresh water)...

CSM+B

Guaranteed Minimum Analysis
Chelated Iron (Fe) (actual)	7%
Chelated Manganese (Mn) (actual)	2%
Chelated Zinc (Zn) (actual)	0.4%
Chelated Copper (Cu) (actual)	0.1%
Boron (B) (actual)	1.3%
Molybdenum (Mo) (actual)	0.06%
EDTA (Ethylene diamine tetraacetate)	42%
DTPA (Diethylene triamine pentaacetate)	14%

Can i used it ?

I do not know the relative rate of depletion of those elements in your system, but I'd be reluctant to use a freshwater trace element mix in a reef tank. I'm not a fan of the chelators (EDTA and DPTA), but they aren't a show stopper.

 

[Patx]

I do not know the relative rate of depletion of those elements in your system, but I'd be reluctant to use a freshwater trace element mix in a reef tank. I'm not a fan of the chelators (EDTA and DPTA), but they aren't a show stopper.

Thk !

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thk !

You're welcome.

FWIW, a product such as Tropic Marin A and K may be a good way to go.

 

[Patx]

You're welcome.

FWIW, a product such as Tropic Marin A and K may be a good way to go.

Maybe, i already (not much) use AFR. (For alk 3ml/55gallons/days)
it would be simpler if tropic marin could tell us the exact concentration of each trace element. Maybe I'll add cheatogro instead.
Or the iron pills trick...

 

[Patx]

I just found that im adding 0.00105 ppm iron/day whit my 3ml AFR dose... kind of gentle lol

TM K+ will be 10x more (if 3ml/day)
0.0105 + 0.00105 = 0.01155ppm/day...
So do +~0.02/day could be enough ? (Better then now surely)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I just found that im adding 0.00105 ppm iron/day whit my 3ml AFR dose... kind of gentle lol

TM K+ will be 10x more (if 3ml/day)
0.0105 + 0.00105 = 0.01155ppm/day...
So do +~0.02/day could be enough ? (Better then now surely)

I'm not sure how you are hypothesizing how much is needed every day, but my recommended diy for iron is:

One Fergon tablet (ferrous gluconate) contains 27 mg of iron. Dissolve that in about 27 mL RO/DI (my recommendation, but other concentrations are OK, just don't dilute too much), the concentration is about 27 mg/27 ml ~ 1 mg/mL.

I dose ~1 mL to my tank with a volume of about 300 gallons ) once or twice a week.

That amounts to about 1 mg/300 gallons, which is approximately 0.0009 mg/L (ppm) once or twice a week, or ~ 1 ppb once or twice a week.

 

[Patx]

Last week i did a 20% water change instead of 10%...
Cheato stop "whitening" and 9ish day later cheato start tomelt again so i correlate that to the trace add by the water change.

The only thing that bugs me:
In the past 4 years of no WC (no coral) in a dino/cyano tank
The cheato only need KNO3 to stay healthy and now i have to dose trace... that don't make sense... but everything point out to this direction.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The cheato only need KNO3 to stay healthy and now i have to dose trace... that don't make sense... but everything point out to this direction.

Not sure what that means, but macroalgae needs a lot more than potassium and nitrate in the water.

 

[Patx]

I'm not sure how you are hypothesizing how much is needed every day, but my recommended diy for iron is:

Im not hypothesing, i calculate how much iron i do dose each day whit AFR.

I dose ~1 mL to my tank with a volume of about 300 gallons ) once or twice a week.

That amounts to about 1 mg/300 gallons, which is approximately 0.0009 mg/L (ppm) once or twice a week, or ~ 1 ppb once or twice a week.

OH ! Im not far to that...
Do you have macro alguae ?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Im not hypothesing, i calculate how much iron i do dose each day whit AFR.

OH ! Im not far to that...
Do you have macro alguae ?

Yes, I had macroalgae.

Where did you get an iron concentration for AFR?

 

[Patx]

Not sure what that means, but macroalgae needs a lot more than potassium and nitrate in the water.

traduction problem here maybe.

No wc in 4years... surprisingly i only need to dose KNO3 to keep cheato in top shape condition...
In 4years no wc no dosing trace... and now whit water change etc... this ain't working anymore.

 

[Patx]

Yes, I had macroalgae.

Where did you get an iron concentration for AFR?

Wikileaks lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, I had not seen that. Is it from a TM web site?

I get a very different value than you do for iron in your system using that value.

The AFR is 0.7 ppm iron.

You add 3 ml into 55 gallons (208,198 mL) so the dilution is 3/208,198

3/208198 x 0.7 ppm = 0.00001 ppm per day, or 0.01 ppb (ug/L).

 

[Patx]

Thanks, I had not seen that. Is it from a TM web site?

I get a very different value than you do for iron in your system using that value.

The AFR is 0.7 ppm iron.

You add 3 ml into 55 gallons (208,198 mL) so the dilution is 3/208,198

3/208198 x 0.7 ppm = 0.00001 ppm per day, or 0.01 ppb (ug/L).

Oh! Ok

I eyeball whit this info: 6000 dKH per liter alkalinity:
10 ml contain 60 dKH alkalinity and dosed to 100 l/26.4 US-gallon of water it raises the alkalinity by 0.6 dKH.

I probably lost some 0 on the way

I see. I am not adding "that much" iron

Thk