Cheato sign, no3... bacto balance...no2. All in my head ?

[Patx]

hello.
Before bacto... I was the type (tank/set up/pop/refugium) that can strip of no3 and po4 from the system. Dosing kno3 and kh2po4 daily to maintain some trace... (struggling)

I read that 1ppm no2 can make NO3 test at 100ppm.
I read that TM bacto balance can "reverse" NO3 to NO2...
I dose ~ 1ml bacto in 55g /day

Now, NO3 are stable around 20-26ppm since 2 months. (No more kno3 dosing)
Still dosing KH2PO4 0.03ppm/day

-Cheato are (i strongly think) give me sign of NO3 depletion...

-Caulerpa serulata was on the edge of "going sexual"...
could be because i reduce the light or NO3 related... picky algae...

but i never see cheato melt (bleach cause of the light... not for 20% increase/decrease).

Get to the point !
Maybe, i have NO2 0,25ppm (bacto balance) related
And NO3 0ppm ?

BUT ! The big question here...
Can cheato use NO2 instead of NO3 or not ? (I think yes)
____________________________________________________________

So I don't understand the sign...

Cheato green greyish weak on the edge of melting.
NO3 not going down.

Dosing daily:
3ml AFR (iron) (Alk stable 7,7)
1ml bacto
1ml mb7
+0.03ppm KH2PO4 mix

Help?

 

[Dan_P]

hello.
Before bacto... I was the type (tank/set up/pop/refugium) that can strip of no3 and po4 from the system. Dosing kno3 and kh2po4 daily to maintain some trace... (struggling)

I read that 1ppm no2 can make NO3 test at 100ppm.
I read that TM bacto balance can "reverse" NO3 to NO2...
I dose ~ 1ml bacto in 55g /day

Now, NO3 are stable around 20-26ppm since 2 months. (No more kno3 dosing)
Still dosing KH2PO4 0.03ppm/day

-Cheato are (i strongly think) give me sign of NO3 depletion...

-Caulerpa serulata was on the edge of "going sexual"...
could be because i reduce the light or NO3 related... picky algae...

but i never see cheato melt (bleach cause of the light... not for 20% increase/decrease).

Get to the point !
Maybe, i have NO2 0,25ppm (bacto balance) related
And NO3 0ppm ?

BUT ! The big question here...
Can cheato use NO2 instead of NO3 or not ? (I think yes)
____________________________________________________________

So I don't understand the sign...

Cheato green greyish weak on the edge of melting.
NO3 not going down.

Dosing daily:
3ml AFR (iron) (Alk stable 7,7)
1ml bacto
1ml mb7
+0.03ppm KH2PO4 mix

Help?

Algae use other trace elements. Your system could be depleted in those. Phosphate might be too low.

If you think there might be nitrite present, best to measure it. Algae can use nitrite, but there is probably very little in your system.

How often do you trim the Cheato and Caulerpa?

 

[Patx]

Before bacto... in the past, i could have a tick dense mattress of healthy solid cheato. Light green on top and dark green under.
(100% covering the top by 4-6 inch tick)
No3: 2-10ppm and po4: 0.00-0.03 and dosing hard for it...
(PO4 don't seem to "Be a thing" vs NO3)
No water change in 4 years, no dosing trace etc... (tank was no fish/coral) just keeping system alive and cyano/dyno...
... kno3 dosing only...

If i loose control and cheato look bad... in emergency i just close the refugium from the system and poor directly KNO3 powder in.
Wait some day, test No3 and if ok, open the refugium to tank again.

It's really night and day now.
I don't understand why "supposedly" i got no3 20ish ppm / cheato look bad and they won't go down...

So yeah, could be... no2 trace (bacto/No3 test/ false reading) related and 0 No3.

In 20 years i never need to test for NO2... Time have change

Looking good on picture... but can be broke by a breeze...

 

[Patx]

Im trying to "feel" the tank and she slap me in the face
I think im going to follow my instinct...
Close refugium from the system... and dose some of my Kno3 old friend.... or find a no2 test

Ps : by the way, nothing against bacto balance...

 

[Patx]

caulerpa serrulata
Sign of imminent melting...

 

[Patx]

The step...

Step one ! we can have lots of fun
Step two! there's so much we can do
Step three! it's just you melted me !

 

[Patx]

I close the refugium for the night and test NO3 tomorrow.
Low drop = No3
Big drop = No2 related (i think?)

 

[Dan_P]

Before bacto... in the past, i could have a tick dense mattress of healthy solid cheato. Light green on top and dark green under.
(100% covering the top by 4-6 inch tick)
No3: 2-10ppm and po4: 0.00-0.03 and dosing hard for it...
(PO4 don't seem to "Be a thing" vs NO3)
No water change in 4 years, no dosing trace etc... (tank was no fish/coral) just keeping system alive and cyano/dyno...
... kno3 dosing only...

If i loose control and cheato look bad... in emergency i just close the refugium from the system and poor directly KNO3 powder in.
Wait some day, test No3 and if ok, open the refugium to tank again.

It's really night and day now.
I don't understand why "supposedly" i got no3 20ish ppm / cheato look bad and they won't go down...

So yeah, could be... no2 trace (bacto/No3 test/ false reading) related and 0 No3.

In 20 years i never need to test for NO2... Time have change

Looking good on picture... but can be broke by a breeze...

Sounds like stopping bacto addition is your first step.

 

[Asif Iqbal]

Hypothesis: Bacto balance out competing chaeto for nutrients

So if you are dosing it on the regular, you could consider stopping it or dialing it down to find the balance

In my experience, when chaeto stalls… dosing Captiv8 Isol8 MT makes it go into overdrive… and I have to dial the photoperiod to get it in the butter zone for the nutrients parameter / zone I want to keep

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'm not a fan of ever adding anything that you do not know what it is, such as bactobalance.

I do agree that right away I'd dose a trace element supplement containing iron and manganese.

I also recommend against dosing potassium nitrate. it will raise potassium too much. Sodium nitrate (food grade) is a better bet.

 

[Patx]

I close the refugium for the night and test NO3 tomorrow.
Low drop = No3
Big drop = No2 related (i think?)

Was NO3: 25,8
Now NO3: 26,5
So, nothing happen... stall... or test range/low consumption.
Going to make a standard solution and test my test (hanna)

 

[Patx]

I also recommend against dosing potassium nitrate. it will raise potassium too much. Sodium nitrate (food grade) is a better bet.

Canada !
Was doing vodka/vinegar/sugar at first and dosing KNO3.
No3 consumption was like > 5ppm/day

Part of the reason i try bacto... no need to dose KNO3 anymore...
But...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Canada !
Was doing vodka/vinegar/sugar at first and dosing KNO3.
No3 consumption was like > 5ppm/day

Part of the reason i try bacto... no need to dose KNO3 anymore...
But...

You could go the ammonia route:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Troylee]

I think you’re starving on trace elements if you haven’t dosed them or changed water in 4 years..

 

[Patx]

I think you’re starving on trace elements if you haven’t dosed them or changed water in 4 years..

Clarification.
-In the past- "i let the system run alone" for 4 years... (hobby break)
No wc, no dosing trace etc...
Only kno3 when cheato was on the edge.

Now...
WC 10%/week
AFR and bacto. (Iron and other trace in)

 

[Patx]

You could go the ammonia route:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

In the back of my head i secretly suppose that bacto was using some ammonia...

 

[Troylee]

Clarification.
-In the past- "i let the system run alone" for 4 years... (hobby break)
No wc, no dosing trace etc...
Only kno3 when cheato was on the edge.

Now...
WC 10%/week
AFR and bacto. (Iron and other trace in)

Ah yeah, then you should be good! All for reef and bacto balance is a great combo! Works great on my tank but I don’t run a fuge.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In the back of my head i secretly suppose that bacto was using some ammonia...

It might:

"because our products make little use of nitrate as nitrogen compound but mainly dose organic nitrogen compounds together with some ammonium and nitrate."

po4 spike after starting bactobalance

Prior to beginning use of np bactobalance, my no3/po4 numbers were 5/.10 After a week of dosing 25% of recommended dose, my no3 has gone down to 3, but phosphates have jumped up to .45 No other changes, same fish feeding amounts What's going on here?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Patx]

@Randy Holmes-Farley can you look at my math please.
I want to test ~ in 1000ml fresh saltwater.

My note said 150grams in 1000ml mix
1ml in 55gallons give +0,5ppm No3
So i end whit this.

Stock solution Kno3
9,35 grams in 62,5 ml Ro/Di.

Dose: 0,25ml solution in 812 ml saltwater
Should give No3- 32ppm

I mesure all liquid by weight.

Thk.

I double check... don't know if my math are good but i will do this.

 

[Patx]

End up doing this.
Test=No3 26,4 ppm... fair enough