I have come to the realization that my small one bedroom apartment between myself and 2 large dogs has been a large cause for my struggle to maintain a decent Ph so I have decided to do what everyone says to not do and chase Ph in hopes of better growth and stability. Before I started this journey my Ph would routinely stay between 7.6-7.7 with minimal swing and I attribute this largely to the extremely elevated CO2 levels (>2400) when all windows and doors are closed. I have since added a recirculating CO2 scrubber & skimmer which bumped me up to a 7.7-7.85 but this wasn't enough for me and so I decided to begin dosing my daily evaporation in fully saturated Kalk at night which comes to approximately 1200ml. I have added a co2 monitor and open windows/doors throughout the day to keep Co2 under 900 and this has further bumped my Ph to 8.28 and slowly rising. The tank is a Evo 13.5 with mostly SPS and a few torches/acans. With these changes I can see daily growth in my SPS and the most polyp extension I've ever seen in my tank. My current issue is trying to keep my parameters stable with these changes. Before this, kalk was enough to maintain but I have started the addition of AFR as my Alk is now dipping far more than I'd like between weekly water changes 10-7.6 in 5 days. I'm on day 4 of AFR and dosed 2.5ml, 5ml, 10ml, and currently at 5ml for today and will dose 5ml again before lights out. I know AFR takes time to build bacteria to show on a test but am concerned if I am over/under-dosing as the uptake has changed drastically with these changes and addition of more SPS frags. Should I do a water change to get back to my preferred 9.5-10dkh or ride our this low and continue to add AFR to find the dosage where the tank stabilizes, then WC. I'm currently doing 50% weekly WC but would like to drop to 25% if possible with the addition of AFR for simplicity.
Chasing Ph and AFR
- Thread starter WAfrican
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I would just ride it out and let the alk come up slowly with AFR. Low Alk doesn’t hurt anything, but sudden large corrections certainly can and will kill some SPS.
My concern now is if it keeps dropping either from under dosing or the delayed effect from AFR. I've dipped 1dkh in the past 24 hours alone. As it stands everything looks amazing so I'm not freaking out quite yet but in a nano I know how quick things can take a turn.
You could get some traditional 2-part or mix up some baking soda in water to adjust in the interim. I would think water changes would be counterproductive to establishing that bacteria you want for AFR.
My thoughts exactly. I'm also interested to hear/see the effect of big water changes on the bacteria count in a smaller tank dosing AFR. Unsure if they are primarily in the water column or if there is enough within the rock to not worry about it. In a perfect world I'd like to only do 10% weekly water changes just to remove detritus buildup as its bare bottom but I know this may not be possible with a SPS dominant tank.
I have SPS and do zero water changes
With AFR you are covered for trace elements, so your water changes are just there for exporting nutrients. As long as your nitrate and phosphate are kept in check with 10% changes, I see no reason not to.
areefer01
2500 Club Member
As you probably already know Tropic Marin recommends that you get the water parameters to your desired levels before starting. Calculate, and start. I dose during the day and found no benefit to dose after lights out. I dose 90 ml between 0900 and 1700.
If you have started and after a couple days noticed alk dropped you can manually adjust. They also recommend this - document below. I've had to adjust a few times over the years if or when I see a sudden burst of growth. I switched from ESV 2 part so have that laying around.
If you have started and after a couple days noticed alk dropped you can manually adjust. They also recommend this - document below. I've had to adjust a few times over the years if or when I see a sudden burst of growth. I switched from ESV 2 part so have that laying around.
@Formulator what is your tank size? I don't think I can ever go to zero WC just for my mental well being. With such a low water volume I know the smallest difference in uptake of different macro/micros can lead to a swing in either direction.
Thanks, I've seen this and had my parameters at my desired numbers when starting but as it takes time to build up the bacteria I did not want to dose alk initially to make up and then see a massive spike once the bacteria count is adequate. I am already at the max dosage according to this but know that this can be exceeded if need be. Once I have establish the bacteria count and know the daily dosage I will use this chart to maintain.As you probably already know Tropic Marin recommends that you get the water parameters to your desired levels before starting. Calculate, and start. I dose during the day and found no benefit to dose after lights out. I dose 90 ml between 0900 and 1700.
If you have started and after a couple days noticed alk dropped you can manually adjust. They also recommend this - document below. I've had to adjust a few times over the years if or when I see a sudden burst of growth. I switched from ESV 2 part so have that laying around.
I have a 120g. I understand the concern, but I know there are folks doing it with smaller tanks. Either with AFR or some other method to replace trace elements like reef moonshiners which I use. I have a very large refugium for nutrient export and run GFO intermittently for phosphate.
Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
Fully saturated kalk in your top off will keep your ph stable and alk high.. I can’t see you having enough sps to deplete it in a short amount of time.. let the alk stabilize where it wants as long as it’s above 7 it’s fine! As you’ve seen the added ph benefit is where it’s at! I have a fully loaded 300 with large colonies of sps and torches and kalk almost keeps up by itself! I cut my dose of all 4 reef from 100ml to 40ml and my alk dropped from 10.5 to 9.8 and I haven't seen any changes in growth.
Good point. I guess I gave them the benefit of the doubt and figured they had a mature SPS dominant tank, but you’re right that is a lot of alk consumption. Abiotic precipitation also increases with increased pH…
Thanks for putting my mind at ease. I was confused as to how I had so much consumption. I guess I will just have to put a pause on my goal of 9.5-10dkh and let it find its happy place. I just got a few new frags earlier this week and am already seeing encrusting along the base so they aren't upset yet. I attribute these new frags to the majority of the big change as saturated kalk was enough before. I actually had to dilute it in the beginning until I got my ph over 8.1 and then I saw a rapid uptake in consumption but not enough to outpace my kalk dosing. @Troylee would you recommend I maintain my 10ml AFR daily dose until I see if it makes a change as bacteria continues to build or reduce?
Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
It’s not gonna hurt anything… it has a slight carbon source and elements needed in salt water. I’d keep it at 10ml and see where your alk goes. Mine jumps around from 9.25 to 10 depending on the time of day. Was 9.5 to 11 at one point but settled down with less all for reef.
I will leave it at 10ml for now and check back in after a few days to update where it stabilizes. As I'm still manually testing I'm not sure when my daily peak is but have been testing just before lights on and after my full kalk dose.
As it stands my alk reading/AFR dose for the past few days have been 11.7/0ml, 10.0/2.5ml, 9.1/5ml, 8.6/10ml, 7.6/10ml.
As it stands my alk reading/AFR dose for the past few days have been 11.7/0ml, 10.0/2.5ml, 9.1/5ml, 8.6/10ml, 7.6/10ml.
That is very likely to be your peak.
Troylee
all about the diy!!!!!
My peak is a hour before lights on and lowest point about 4 hours after lights off.
Best way to increase alk with AFR is to not use AFR to raise alk, the instructions actually say not to do that, if you see your alk dropping, use something like baking soda to bring it back to the correct lvl, then slightly increase your dose of AFR to keep it there.
I will add to this that I may be one of the few who has a reverse Ph peak from Kalk dosing at night and such highly elevated Co2 levels in my apartment. I can never get a rise in Ph throughout the day but rather a near constant level or gradual dip beginning mid afternoon until lights out/kalk dosing begins again where Ph will begin to rise again.
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