Chaeto in new aquariumn

ScottF · Sep 3, 2024

I recently setup a new 250gal total water volume aquarium and cycled it with ammonium chloride. Afterwords my nitrates were testing around 40 (TridentNP and Hanna Checker) and phostphate around 0.06 (TridentNP). I haven't picked up the phosphate Hanna Checker yet and I'm colorblind. So I don't like to use tests where I have to match colors myself.

I'm not sure where the phosphates came from. I've added Fritz turbo start, microbacter 7, AF Lifesource reef mud, Algae Barn ecopods and Algae Barn clean chaeto. I figured it was okay to add the chaeto since I had a bunch of nitrate from the cycle and some phosphate.

I then decided to do a very large water change before I add any fish or inverts (other than pods) into the tank. I did a 90% water change and I'm doing daily 2% water changes with Neptune Dos.

My nitrates are now reading 1.7 and my phosphates 0.03. I have some fish on order from Marinecollectors (Foxface, Filefish, Tomini Tang, Midas Blenny), but it will probably be a couple more weeks until they arrive.

Do I need to add nitrates and/or phosphates to keep my chaeto alive? Should I dose them? Should I feed an empty tank? Should I keep my Kessil A360x fuge light off? Should I run the fuge light, but turned way down?

The chaeto doesn't seem to be struggling yet, but I'm also not really seeing any change in PH at night when the fuge light is on. I just want to keep the chaeto happy until I have an actual bio-load.

Fish Fan · Sep 3, 2024

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Interesting question! I hope to be in a similar situation very soon with a new tank I'm planning, so I'd like to hear the responses.

Good luck with your new tank!

PotatoPig · Sep 3, 2024

Is it possible there were still nitrites in the water when you tested? Nitrites interfere with most(all?) nitrate test kits and gives false high values.

Regarding the chaeto - keep an eye on it until you add the fish. If they’re coming soon then don’t worry about it, although in general this is very early to be adding chaeto.

In terms of pH - you currently have an enormous tank and a tiny chunk of chaeto - it’s not going to impact water chemistry in any meaningful way until it grows. Which it will do in time.

twentyleagues · Sep 3, 2024

Well if you have chaeto in the fuge you will need to leave the light on or it will die and add more junk to the water. If your numbers are correct you should be fine for a couple weeks.

ScottF · Sep 3, 2024

Is it possible there were still nitrites in the water when you tested? Nitrites interfere with most(all?) nitrate test kits and gives false high values.

It is indeed possible. The Hanna Nitrite checker comes with six reagent packets. Six. I ran out of reagents, ordered more, read a ton of threads about nitrite not being toxic in marine environments and figured it would work itself out. I did make sure Ammonia was at zero well before I ran out of Nitrite reagents.

I figured even if the Nitrites weren't at zero yet, it wouldn't harm the chaeto and that it would work itself out before too long. It is still probably going to be weeks before any fish arrive.

Regarding the chaeto - keep an eye on it until you add the fish. If they’re coming soon then don’t worry about it, although in general this is very early to be adding chaeto.

I really don't know how long it will be. Marine Collectors says two to six weeks to source and quarantine before shipping. That is a pretty broad range.

In terms of pH - you currently have an enormous tank and a tiny chunk of chaeto - it’s not going to impact water chemistry in any meaningful way until it grows. Which it will do in time.

I ordered the 8oz clean chaeto. It spread out to almost soccer ball size in my fuge. I would think there would be at least a slight bump in pH. Dunno... You absolutely could be right.

My goal with monitoring the pH at night wasn't to increase pH with the chaeto (yet, but would be nice). I was more trying to use pH to indicate health of the chaeto and that photosynthesis was happing. I figured as long as it is boosting pH, it is probably happy.

Should I get some Neophos/NeoNitro just in case it starts to go down hill?

ScottF · Sep 3, 2024

twentyleagues said:
Well if you have chaeto in the fuge you will need to leave the light on or it will die and add more junk to the water.

This is what I thought as well, but I thought maybe keeping the light at a lower intensity would keep it alive and well while not causing much growth and uptake of nutrients.

I admit that I jumped the gun with the chaeto, but it seemed like I had plenty of nutrients that needed to be exported. I didn't realize that it could have been nitrites throwing off the test results.

PotatoPig · Sep 3, 2024

ScottF said:
Should I get some Neophos/NeoNitro just in case it starts to go down hill?

Save a little money and dose ammonia - you have a supply already from the cycle, and if that runs out it’s very easy to make with ammonium bicarbonate.

See this thread for DIY ammonia dosing:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

ScottF · Sep 3, 2024

PotatoPig said:
Save a little money and dose ammonia - you have a supply already from the cycle, and if that runs out it’s very easy to make with ammonium bicarbonate.

See this thread for DIY ammonia dosing:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

I do indeed still have half a bottle of Dr Tim's ammonium chloride. Thanks! I'll keep an eye on the chaeto and if it looks like it needs some love, I can dose a little of that. Though I'm guess that won't help if it runs out of PO4.

TX_REEF · Sep 3, 2024

I wouldn't mess with additives just to sustain the chaeto, once you have some fish in the system they will provide what the chaeto needs to live and grow (in addition to proper lighting)

As a side note, I grow chaeto in a fishless stock tank, and I do need to add nitrate to keep it growing in the absence of fish.

However, in a normal system, chaeto is supposed to be a helper, not something you have to struggle to keep alive, for what that's worth to you.

ScottF · Sep 3, 2024

TX_REEF said:
I wouldn't mess with additives just to sustain the chaeto, once you have some fish in the system they will provide what the chaeto needs to live and grow (in addition to proper lighting)

As a side note, I grow chaeto in a fishless stock tank, and I do need to add nitrate to keep it growing in the absence of fish.

However, in a normal system, chaeto is supposed to be a helper, not something you have to struggle to keep alive, for what that's worth to you.

I wasn't planning on dosing long term. I was just afraid that it may run out of nutrients before my fish arrive, but who knows. They could arrive in a couple of days or a month from now.

TX_REEF · Sep 3, 2024

Got it, I wouldn't worry too much. Just keep the light on it, and I bet it'll be fine until your fish arrive. I have shipped chaeto that has taken a week to arrive due to shipping delays and it arrived alive, and have read at least one account of 2 weeks in the mail without it dying.

deome · Sep 3, 2024

ScottF said:
Do I need to add nitrates and/or phosphates to keep my chaeto alive? Should I dose them? Should I feed an empty tank? Should I keep my Kessil A360x fuge light off? Should I run the fuge light, but turned way down?

The chaeto doesn't seem to be struggling yet, but I'm also not really seeing any change in PH at night when the fuge light is on. I just want to keep the chaeto happy until I have an actual bio-load.

I've tried setting up a few tanks with chaeto from the start; it never made an appreciable/measurable difference to any nutrient. Even in my main system, with a giant refugium filled with chaeto and pom-pom macroalgae, I see little or no difference in tank chemistry. Macroalgae seems to be great for hosting copepods and other tank bugs, but it does not grow fast enough to produce a significant effect on the tank system as a whole. For this reason, I wouldn't worry about having too little or too much nutrients to support chaeto; it seems to just sit there and grow very slowly over months.

Right now I've got a green hair algae outbreak in the refugium, and I definitely CAN see a daily difference in PH from refugium light, but I think the PH change is due entirely to green hair algae, just like I can see an appreciable difference in PH if I stop cleaning the glass in my display tank.

"I'm not sure where the phosphates came from."

If you see phosphate and/or nitrates in a new system, prior to adding/feeding livestock, I would credit all of those nutrients to leachate from rocks/sand (even brand new dry rock). Could be from the bacteria cycling the tank too (bacteria DO contain both nitrogen and phosphorus, and when bacteria cells die, N and P are released), but I'd honestly be more curious if you added 20-50 lbs of rock and sand and *did not* see an increase in nutrients.

"Should I feed an empty tank?"

Go for it. A pinch of fish food will increase nitrates and phosphate, and there's literally nothing in your system that will be bothered by more nutrients. I've got two 15g tanks just coming out of cycling, and all I used was fish food and live rock from main system.