Can't Keep Ammonia Down!

[Kuhn]

Hello again!
Sorry for such a basic and dumb question.. I'm just at a complete loss.
I swear I thought I've done everything right, yet I just don't know why my Ammonia won't drop to 0.

Here are my parameters... I've been having issues keeping Alk and Magnesium lower as well. It must be the salt I use??

Salinity: 35.7 ppt
Temp: 79 F
Ammonia: 0.33 ppm
Nitrate: 14.1 ppm
Phosphate: 0.76 ppm
pH: 8.0
Alk: 13.5 dKH
Mag: Over 1800 for some reason??
Cal: 494 ppm

Clearly there are some numbers that are off, Phosphate I have been having issues for a while too and I have been feeding much less. Done water changes, everything. I notice Nitrate and Phosphate are trending down from my previous tests however because I have been dosing NOPOX from Red Sea.

My Ammonia won't stay at 0, I have dosed beneficial bacteria so many times, and yet Ammonia seem to stay consistent at about .33 to .5 ...
I've done larger water changes (about 50%) several times and still no luck. The above numbers are from testing with Hanna testers, these numbers are also results after I did about a 20% water change yesterday.
I have also tested my RODI water that I make myself and it sits consistently at 0ppm.

The salt I use: Instant Ocean (NOT Reef crystals.)
I do NOT dose Calcium, Magnesium or Alkalinity, but they are crazy high at all times and I have no idea why.
My fish seem happy, I have two Trachy corals and one looks happy while the other has been stressed for weeks... I have moved the stressed one into a shaded area thinking it was getting too much light, but no luck. I have also moved it to the same side of the tank as my happy trachy to see if it'll be happier there due to flow possibly being lower. Still nothing. THOUGH since I did the water change yesterday, my stressed trachy is looking SLIGHTLY better than it did the last week or so. Maybe I just need to keep on top of it?

So what do I do? Should I keep dosing beneficial bacteria? My tank is about 5 months old. I figured it would be teaming with bacteria by now considering how many times I've dosed it.

Please any tips you guys have on ANY of the problems I'm experiencing is greatly appreciated!! Thank you!

 

[Dan_P]

Hello again!
Sorry for such a basic and dumb question.. I'm just at a complete loss.
I swear I thought I've done everything right, yet I just don't know why my Ammonia won't drop to 0.

Here are my parameters... I've been having issues keeping Alk and Magnesium lower as well. It must be the salt I use??

Salinity: 35.7 ppt
Temp: 79 F
Ammonia: 0.33 ppm
Nitrate: 14.1 ppm
Phosphate: 0.76 ppm
pH: 8.0
Alk: 13.5 dKH
Mag: Over 1800 for some reason??
Cal: 494 ppm

Clearly there are some numbers that are off, Phosphate I have been having issues for a while too and I have been feeding much less. Done water changes, everything. I notice Nitrate and Phosphate are trending down from my previous tests however because I have been dosing NOPOX from Red Sea.

My Ammonia won't stay at 0, I have dosed beneficial bacteria so many times, and yet Ammonia seem to stay consistent at about .33 to .5 ...
I've done larger water changes (about 50%) several times and still no luck. The above numbers are from testing with Hanna testers, these numbers are also results after I did about a 20% water change yesterday.
I have also tested my RODI water that I make myself and it sits consistently at 0ppm.

The salt I use: Instant Ocean (NOT Reef crystals.)
I do NOT dose Calcium, Magnesium or Alkalinity, but they are crazy high at all times and I have no idea why.
My fish seem happy, I have two Trachy corals and one looks happy while the other has been stressed for weeks... I have moved the stressed one into a shaded area thinking it was getting too much light, but no luck. I have also moved it to the same side of the tank as my happy trachy to see if it'll be happier there due to flow possibly being lower. Still nothing. THOUGH since I did the water change yesterday, my stressed trachy is looking SLIGHTLY better than it did the last week or so. Maybe I just need to keep on top of it?

So what do I do? Should I keep dosing beneficial bacteria? My tank is about 5 months old. I figured it would be teaming with bacteria by now considering how many times I've dosed it.

Please any tips you guys have on ANY of the problems I'm experiencing is greatly appreciated!! Thank you!

Buy a Seachem ammonia monitor. This will be a double check on ammonia reading.

Your total ammonia reading of 0.3 to 0.5, say 0.4 ppm, correspond to roughly 0.02-0.04 ppm unionized ammonia, the toxic form of ammonia. The amount of unionized ammonia depends on the pH and temperature. When you get a value from the Seachem monitor, run a Hanna ammonia test and use the link below to run the calculation for free ammonia and compare it to the Seachem value. They should be close.

Free Ammonia Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the free (un-ionized) ammonia (NH3) concentration, given the total ammonia concentration.

www.hamzasreef.com

Your total ammonia concentration is borderline troubling. Don’t raise the pH but don’t lose sleep over it either. There is a chance this is a measurement issue.

 

[Uncle99]

If your tank is more than 7 days old and you have rock and sand, and dosed some bacteria in the beginning, just forget the ammonia, many tests can’t read it to zero, mine sticks at .25ppm even though the tank is 5 years mature.

 

[Kuhn]

Buy a Seachem ammonia monitor. This will be a double check on ammonia reading.

Your total ammonia reading of 0.3 to 0.5, say 0.4 ppm, correspond to roughly 0.02-0.04 ppm unionized ammonia, the toxic form of ammonia. The amount of unionized ammonia depends on the pH and temperature. When you get a value from the Seachem monitor, run a Hanna ammonia test and use the link below to run the calculation for free ammonia and compare it to the Seachem value. They should be close.

Free Ammonia Calculator

Aquarium calculator; Estimate the free (un-ionized) ammonia (NH3) concentration, given the total ammonia concentration.

www.hamzasreef.com

Your total ammonia concentration is borderline troubling. Don’t raise the pH but don’t lose sleep over it either. There is a chance this is a measurement issue.

If your tank is more than 7 days old and you have rock and sand, and dosed some bacteria in the beginning, just forget the ammonia, many tests can’t read it to zero, mine sticks at .25ppm even though the tank is 5 years mature.

I'm a little worried because on one hand it's borderline troubling that my Ammonia is about .4 on average, but on the other it's common that testers typically can't read it to zero.

I'll have to get another test kit like Dan mentioned. I get paid on the 15th, so maybe I'll buy one then and see what happens.

I'm not sure if my stressed Trachy is going to handle the stress much longer though... I'm pretty sad about that... I love it so much, I don't want it to die on me ...

 

[RocketEngineer]

Okay, First: Stop what your doing, deep breath, relax. I think part of the problem is trying to make too many corrections too fast. You’re system is quite new so things haven’t stabilized yet and they won’t be no matter what you do so stop chasing numbers. Back to basics.

What are you using for water? Have you tested it for ammonia?

what salt are you using? What SG are you mixing it to? What are the levels for newly mixed SW?

Water changes: Amount and how often?

Remember, we are keepers of water first and foremost.

 

[brandon429]

please post a full tank shot of this massive surface area, aged reef, where fish swim normally, things are open, water is clear, just a non digital test kit causing the fear (to be made certain when a second non digital test kit confirms)

notice a pattern building, I have 5 of these threads building for a new focus thread. this will be the 6th example.

what old cycling science is doing to the OP is painful to watch, even the hint that ammonia may be noncompliant in a fully matured reef is just outbound torture. old cycling science harms / causes pain, we must watch it in contrast to the actual tank shot showing all animals fine

a bleached coral/not linked to ammonia


ammonia is never, ever ever ever ever out of control in a matured reef with trachy corals running, and fish, for days on end longer than what the ammonia line from a cycling chart shows


I like how if a poster gives a measure, we automatically disavow 80 years of charted cycle logs and immediately doubt the cycle.

those bottle bac salesmen have us trained exactly as they want, that fear is the best click driver for new bottle bac around.

you will never seen this in a calibrated seneye thread. never, not one, not ever.

 

[brandon429]

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[HEADING=3][HEADING=3]Kuhn​

New Member​

JoinedJul 20, 2022Messages13Reaction score4Review score+0 /0 /-0LocationSt Louis

Jbell370 said:
Ammonia should be 0 and alk is way to high, how old is the setup?

It's about two months old.
And yeah I have no idea why my Alk is so high... I haven't dosed Alk in a WHILE

I'm hoping to cross reference my Alk and Calcium testers with the Red Sea set I'm getting on Monday

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

pulled a post from history in case we dont get full tank shot pics here.

-I wanted to show how unstated details often precede false ammonia alerts

see how we're on month 4 ish today for the reef

and just recently there were questions about alk and calcium and testing but on another thread? not ammonia issues



-tracing out prior posts for pictures (which show massive surface area in the reef I can see a rock stack behind his scoly pic) and for information detail before the assumed ammonia event often helps to contextualize false ammonia alert posts. once a coral gets close to dying, something has to be pinned for it.

 

[Uncle99]

Never once in 40 years have I ever used an ammonia kit (or nitrite for that matter) save your money.
Rock, sand, saltwater, bottled bacteria, give that 4-7 days, ready for first fish.

 

[Jedi1199]

Never once in 40 years have I ever used an ammonia kit (or nitrite for that matter) save your money.
Rock, sand, saltwater, bottled bacteria, give that 4-7 days, ready for first fish.

Agreed. I got an ammonia kit ONCE wayyyyy back in the early 90s. I used it exactly 4 times. After that I realized I didn't need it and have never purchased another one since.

Allow me to follow up on this by stating that every tank I have ever started since that time has had at least a couple good sized rocks from an established system, be it fresh or salt water. I have never used bottled bacteria at all, not once, not ever. I have been able to add fish from day 1 or 2 for every startup I have ever had and never once lost a fish due to ammonia poisoning.

 

[LeftyReefer]

What ammonia test?

 

[brandon429]

there has been a massive resurgence in the fear of lost cycles lately. all our hard work/undone.

we're basically at 1999 level assessments, check any posted ammonia alert thread. nobody demands to see digital data, nor surface area, when assessing broken cycles and # of days underwater bears no measure

what's listed on the ammonia line of any cycling chart that runs our hobby/declined. what the thread poster wrote is the truth in all cases.

we werent able to train the masses for a less-flinchier method of reefing, the fear of lost bacteria won out, and bottle bac will be sold to shore up that fear.

I am going to make sure that all adherents to updated cycling science live in a place called bartertown where pig waste runs the city and we all dress like apocalyptic cavefolks, but you'll never see reef tanks failing to carry bioload on the exact date stated for the end of the cycle in this rogue village that's for sure. and no ammonia test kits of any type will be allowed, you'll get the big desert sendoff if anyone brings ammonia doubt into cycling bartertown.

 

[brandon429]

honestly this is what I'm seeking in order to prove a cycle can be undone, should that ever want to be tested in a clean manner:


-must be a full reef tank stacked in rocks like every reef tank here, no modeling. no shortcuts, stack that surface area like everyone here, in excess.

have a sandbed included, everyone does

Bring the tank to full verified cycle completion on a seneye, and have that seneye + slide show that it reads .001-.005 on a full running side reef as proof calibration for bottom end range before you use it in the test here.

have that part verified before using that same meter to prove the test tank is fully cycled. we want to see proof the meter works correctly and is trimmed on a fully running reef before we trust it.

try and do things to break or starve that cycle in the new tank, jiggle the rocks around in the tank/see if that kills the filter bac

if you can get that seneye to show sustained .04 ppm nnh3 after being calibrated prior, based on stuff you did in the test cycle reef, then change slides, prep the new slide 48 hours/do all the steps seneye requires and put the new slide back on the verification reef and see if it reads in spec

if it does, and you move it back to the test cycle tank, and it reads .04 nh3 still after formerly being .001-.005 ppm nh3, then I've just seen the first broken cycle in my life and I can't wait to see what nuclear actions someone did to break one, inside water, by making a tank so harsh even water bacteria don't want to live there



gauged against that, does any api, red sea or even alert badge hold much credence, they're all just one off posts in a web thread

I believe nobody can get a calibrated seneye to show a broken reef tank cycle inside a running reef tank

 

[brandon429]

I'm not disappointed in our board I'm disappointed that the sum total of information the OP read to generate the help thread request made them think a 4 month old cycle could be undone, incomplete etc

wherever readers get their cycling info: that needs updated long ago with the new findings

 

[reef_1]

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