Cannot increase pH while using both All For Reef and Kalkwasser

[aquadise]

Hello.

I am dosing 60ml AFR daily for my sps dominated tank (400 liters). I noticed that i cannot increase the pH by using Kalk anymore. The high pH effect of Kalk last for 1 month then gone. It is likely using AFR does not keep enough buffer in the tank, so I likely cannot increase pH. Is it true theory?

Before using Kalk, my pH is 7.9 at night and 8.1 at peak.
When using Kalk, my pH is 8.2 at night and 8.4 at peak. But this effect only last for 1 month. Now despite still using Kalk, the pH is back to the range 7.9-8.1.

I cross check with one of my friend also use above regimen, he faces same issue.

I re-calibrated the pH probe with pH7 and pH10, result still fine, the probe is spot on.

Please share to me if you have ideal on above.
Thanks.

 

[aquadise]

And yes, i digged in Tropic Marin Support group on facebook for whole night to look up if anyone have same issue. What I saw, is the supporter from Tropic Marin always recommend people not to use Kalk to increase pH. He always suggest people to use more aeration instead using Kalk.
So I likely believe my theory...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The ability to boost pH with any high oh alk additive depends on two factors:

1. How much of which additive.
2. How much aeration the tank is getting with high CO2 air, and how high that CO2 is.

If you change the air around the tank, say by closing windows, the effect can change dramatically.

How much kalkwasser are you adding and how do you make it?

 

[aquadise]

The ability to boost pH with any high oh alk additive depends on two factors:

1. How much of which additive.
2. How much aeration the tank is getting with high CO2 air, and how high that CO2 is.

If you change the air around the tank, say by closing windows, the effect can change dramatically.

How much kalkwasser are you adding and how do you make it?

Thank you.
Read your reply make me think my theory is wrong. I will keep an eye on my tank to see.
I never close all of my windows so it seems i cannot change the air.
I use kalk in a reactor so i cannot tell you how much kalk i was using.
I also use CO2 scrubber.
I also make aeration by movement of water surface on display tank as well.

 

[apb03]

One of the downsides with AFR is that you gain no ph benefit when using it. I too used it for the first year of my SPS tank but eventually moved away from it.

AFR with delayed effect, slimy reservoir, no ph benefit and inability to tune parameters got me to the point where I had to move on to a more robust scalable solution.

 

[DanyL]

I use kalk in a reactor so i cannot tell you how much kalk i was using.

You should know how much liquid you pump through it.

You want to make sure you stir it enough, though at some point the remaining kalk is getting coated with calcium carbonate and won’t mix anymore - that’s a well known problem with kalk reactors which cause them to loose potency over time, and require you to clean and replace the media when the PH inside the reactor dips.

 

[Ajae]

And yes, i digged in Tropic Marin Support group on facebook for whole night to look up if anyone have same issue. What I saw, is the supporter from Tropic Marin always recommend people not to use Kalk to increase pH. He always suggest people to use more aeration instead using Kalk.
So I likely believe my theory...

I've started dosing A4R and i was able to increse PH with more flow and surface aeration. i was at 8 and now at at 8.11. I cleaned my return lines and pointed them up, this helped a lot.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've started dosing A4R and i was able to increse PH with more flow and surface aeration. i was at 8 and now at at 8.11. I cleaned my return lines and pointed them up, this helped a lot.

FWIW, increasing aeration can increase or decrease pH, and may have different effects at different times of day based on the CO2 level in the air and the tank pH and alk.

 

[Ajae]

FWIW, increasing aeration can increase or decrease pH, and may have different effects at different times of day based on the CO2 level in the air and the tank pH and alk.

Agreed sir, I also forgot to mention on my original post. I did increase the fresh air intake my HVAC system pulls in. I know this isn’t a feature everyone has on their system. But another thing is to have the intake to your skimmer pulling air from outside.

 

[bubbgee]

AFR has a bit of carbon dosing effect with it, which was not documented so I ended up having high CO2 in the tank when I used AFR and BalanceNP. I do like carbon dosing to control NP but my pH ends up so low at 7.6 that I had to abandon for now until I get my pH back up to 8 at the minimum.

 

[twentyleagues]

Hello.

I am dosing 60ml AFR daily for my sps dominated tank (400 liters). I noticed that i cannot increase the pH by using Kalk anymore. The high pH effect of Kalk last for 1 month then gone. It is likely using AFR does not keep enough buffer in the tank, so I likely cannot increase pH. Is it true theory?

Before using Kalk, my pH is 7.9 at night and 8.1 at peak.
When using Kalk, my pH is 8.2 at night and 8.4 at peak. But this effect only last for 1 month. Now despite still using Kalk, the pH is back to the range 7.9-8.1.

I cross check with one of my friend also use above regimen, he faces same issue.

I re-calibrated the pH probe with pH7 and pH10, result still fine, the probe is spot on.

Please share to me if you have ideal on above.
Thanks.

So what is or was your alk level? Whats the goal? This can have an effect on ph also.

 

[Oldreefer44]

I have the exact same issue so am moving on to try using a version of Bolus dosing to see if that helps with PH.

 

[Troylee]

Zero problems using 80ml of all for reef daily on top of fully saturated kalk top off. My ph stays high!

 

[GARRIGA]

Might want to check your alkalinity as it might be very high based on dosing kalk and possibly having high air co2. Mine went up 5 dkh with only a 0.2 pH improvement. Increasing air flow with HVAC as mentioned was my goal but new AC went in without that option available. Ultimate best solution being that air exchange handler but costly.

Plans are to dose AFR and use Fuge/ATS to strip co2 and solve my pH issues. Last I'm doing is adding kalk (if avoidable) since an error there can cause bigger issues that may or may not be quickly fixable before taking a toll on tank inhabitants.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I have the exact same issue so am moving on to try using a version of Bolus dosing to see if that helps with PH.

Well, don't hold your breath.

 

[Troylee]

Might want to check your alkalinity as it might be very high based on dosing kalk and possibly having high air co2. Mine went up 5 dkh with only a 0.2 pH improvement. Increasing air flow with HVAC as mentioned was my goal but new AC went in without that option available. Ultimate best solution being that air exchange handler but costly.

Plans are to dose AFR and use Fuge/ATS to strip co2 and solve my pH issues. Last I'm doing is adding kalk (if avoidable) since an error there can cause bigger issues that may or may not be quickly fixable before taking a toll on tank inhabitants.

Alk is fine! Calcium creeps up but a water changes cures that..

 

[Oldreefer44]

Well, don't hold your breath.

As a generally skeptical person I am not. I will track results carefully and report back in a few weeks. Been at this for decades and have seen many "methodologies" come and go so will be interesting to see if this is just another marketing ploy or something that has some value.