Can vodka dosing speed up aquarium cycling?

[EgotisticObeseChihuahua]

Could we essentially speed up the production of beneficial bacteria through the use of carbon to speed up the cycle? From what I understand is that we use vodka as a method of carbon dosing to cause bacteria to grow faster which in turn strips nutrients from the water. If we dosed vodka in the same manner without having to worry about fish dying from lack of oxygen, could we speed up the cycle?

 

[Reefering1]

How much faster do you want it to be? For a hobby predicated on patience, seems odd to be rushing the 1st step. What's the rush?

 

[KrisReef]

The cycle is aimed at bacteria that are consuming NH3, which is a different molecule than alcohol. (I’m drinking dinner and I forget the molecular structure of alcohol, but it’s a carbon molecule not nitrogen)

So if you want to grow wheat, would you plant corn because it grows faster and faster taller than wheat?

Hope that helps, I am raising my glass and returning to the dinner table now.

 

[JoJoIndy]

How much faster do you want it to be? For a hobby predicated on patience, seems odd to be rushing the 1st step. What's the rush?

I am fully convinced (yes)

I did this carbon method just find of f’ing around, no diatoms, because of the nice film of bacteria. IMHO, it out completed algae or diatoms.

 

[lil sumpin]

I am fully convinced (yes)

I did this carbon method just find of f’ing around, no diatoms, because of the nice film of bacteria. IMHO, it out completed algae or diatoms.

would be cool to see some images backing up your take… this just sounds like bacteria bloom to me

recommending this thread

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

I agree there should be no rush at all, but it sounds like there are fish in the tank already

 

[EgotisticObeseChihuahua]

How much faster do you want it to be? For a hobby predicated on patience, seems odd to be rushing the 1st step. What's the rush?

I have no need to do it myself. The idea just came to mind, and I was curious.

 

[EgotisticObeseChihuahua]

would be cool to see some images backing up your take… this just sounds like bacteria bloom to me

recommending this thread

This is just a hypothesis. I have no such evidence backing up my claims. I was just curious as to what my fellow reefers would think of this.

 

[EgotisticObeseChihuahua]

The cycle is aimed at bacteria that are consuming NH3, which is a different molecule than alcohol. (I’m drinking dinner and I forget the molecular structure of alcohol, but it’s a carbon molecule not nitrogen)

So if you want to grow wheat, would you plant corn because it grows faster and faster taller than wheat?

Hope that helps, I am raising my glass and returning to the dinner table now.

Thank you!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This is a complicated question, starting with the whole assertion about what are good and bad bacteria. I presently am not convinced that nitrifiers merit the description "good".

That said, adding organic carbon can speed up the development of bacteria that consume ammonia (if that is a goal). It doesn't drive nitrifiers. It drives heterorophic bacteria that can consume ammonia or nitrate as they also consume the organic.

@taricha has shown that may be important with some bacterial concoctions sold to reefers.

Not all Cycling Bacteria are created equal. Who's who, and what do they need?

My hypothesis is that there are very different types of Bacteria that are being used to "cycle" tanks to prevent ammonia accumulation, and it's not entirely clear which products contain which group, and it's also poorly understood what the requirements are for one of these groups to do their...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Garf]

Could we essentially speed up the production of beneficial bacteria through the use of carbon to speed up the cycle? From what I understand is that we use vodka as a method of carbon dosing to cause bacteria to grow faster which in turn strips nutrients from the water. If we dosed vodka in the same manner without having to worry about fish dying from lack of oxygen, could we speed up the cycle?

You can, I've heard that @Jay Hemdal is against adding carbon sources with fish in a quarantine setting as fish disease may be provoked though. I expect normal nitrification took hold in my test;

Fritzyme 9 modified cycle

Thought I’d go “live bacteria” route for cycling a QT as the wife is itching to get a few fish in her tank. The most available bacteria by me was Fritzyme 9, so that’s what I went with. Tank, ceramic rock, heater, Circulation pump were all bleached for 24 hrs then allowed to dry for 24 hrs...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You can, I've heard that @Jay Hemdal is against adding carbon sources with fish in a quarantine setting as fish disease may be provoked though. I expect normal nitrification took hold in my test;

Fritzyme 9 modified cycle

Thought I’d go “live bacteria” route for cycling a QT as the wife is itching to get a few fish in her tank. The most available bacteria by me was Fritzyme 9, so that’s what I went with. Tank, ceramic rock, heater, Circulation pump were all bleached for 24 hrs then allowed to dry for 24 hrs...

www.reef2reef.com

I'm not against adding carbon sources per-se. Excessive carbon dosing can cause bacteria to pull oxygen from the water lowering the amount to the point where fish can be harmed, if there is not good aeration. I'm also against using lignite carbon as a filter source due to its causing HLLE.

Another aquarist came up with a way to speed up the growth of nitrifying bacteria during cycling - by adding coca cola! The sugar works as a carbon source and the phosphoric acid helps if that becomes limiting. The joke is that the caffeine just speeds things up (grin)

Here is a write-up I did about that:

We inoculated the system with a small amount of bacteria from a previously cycled system. We then added 1.4 grams of ammonium chloride and 66 milliliters of cola per 100 gallons of tank volume every 24 to 48 hours. Yes, you read that correctly, we used soda as an adjunct to the ammonia source. This idea was developed by Barrett Christie, curator of the Dallas Aquarium at Fair Park. He will be developing a paper on the technique, but the basics of it seem to be that the cola supplies a carbon source (sugar) and phosphorus (as phosphoric acid) in approximately the correct ratio to cost effectively support the needs of the nitrifying bacteria. We cycled all of our systems using his method and it seemed to allow us to cycle quite a bit faster, with very stable systems being produced.

 

[taricha]

Could we essentially speed up the production of beneficial bacteria through the use of carbon to speed up the cycle?

It seems difficult to balance.
If you add too much carbon, you set the traditional nitrifiers back and end up with a slower ammonia removal. Dosing organic carbon increases the demands for oxygen and space. I tried using @Garf method and extending it to higher ammonia amounts. I used vinegar + fritz on a very high ammonia level. The vinegar dose was too high and made the Fritz nitrifiers much slower than with no vinegar.
There's probably a way to optimize a mix of organic carbon consuming heterotrophs and classic nitrifiers, but it's tricky.