Can I Save My Yellow Tang?

pmaddox · Jan 23, 2018

I have a 150g with:
(2) clowns
1 Yellow tang
1 anthias
1 bangaii
1 coral beauty
(3) chromis
1 Starry blenny
------------------------------------

I recently worked with a local, professional aquarium consultant to purchase 2 yellow tangs and a blonde naso.

I went lights out for 24 hours.
I added a long mirror to the tank so that the fish would be confused and not tear eachother up.

*I understand the risk of adding more yellow tangs and consulted with this person heavily on his experience and whether it could be done. The end result was to do the mirror and the lights out.

I released the 2 tangs into darkness and the blonde went into a large breeder box.

Well, it died within 24 hours. Lethargic and lying on it's side within 12 hours (the next morning).

The fish were added to the tank 9 days ago today.

I have since noted that the fish aggression has simmered down and they were all seen eating during feeding. As instructed, I removed the mirror at this point.

I've noticed the 3 tangs all have their 'spots' and things are relatively calm in there. No visible signs of damage to the fish.

The the largest one is not swimming about much and stays in one corner of the tank. Last night he didn't come up to try and eat.

TLDR; SECTION
Today...He's lying on his side and I'm actively looking for emergency advice on saving him.

I placed a large, "Y" shaped PVC in the tank for him to have shelter and put the algae clip at the opening of it. Have any of you ever saved a fish in this condition? If so, what did you do? I don't want to stress him and cause his death. I am able to reach in and cradle him freely right now and he's breathing fast.

*See photo and this video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0orb7h2evq6alhe/IMG_4133.MOV?dl=0

Crabs McJones · Jan 23, 2018

pmaddox said:
I have a 150g with:
(2) clowns
1 Yellow tang
1 anthias
1 bangaii
1 coral beauty
(3) chromis
1 Starry blenny
------------------------------------

I recently worked with a local, professional aquarium consultant to purchase 2 yellow tangs and a blonde naso.

I went lights out for 24 hours.
I added a long mirror to the tank so that the fish would be confused and not tear eachother up.

*I understand the risk of adding more yellow tangs and consulted with this person heavily on his experience and whether it could be done. The end result was to do the mirror and the lights out.

I released the 2 tangs into darkness and the blonde went into a large breeder box.

Well, it died within 24 hours. Lethargic and lying on it's side within 12 hours (the next morning).

The fish were added to the tank 9 days ago today.

I have since noted that the fish aggression has simmered down and they were all seen eating during feeding. As instructed, I removed the mirror at this point.

I've noticed the 3 tangs all have their 'spots' and things are relatively calm in there. No visible signs of damage to the fish.

The the largest one is not swimming about much and stays in one corner of the tank. Last night he didn't come up to try and eat.

TLDR; SECTION
Today...He's lying on his side and I'm actively looking for emergency advice on saving him.

I placed a large, "Y" shaped PVC in the tank for him to have shelter and put the algae clip at the opening of it. Have any of you ever saved a fish in this condition? If so, what did you do? I don't want to stress him and cause his death. I am able to reach in and cradle him freely right now and he's breathing fast.

*See photo and this video:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0orb7h2evq6alhe/IMG_4133.MOV?dl=0

So you didn't run them through a quarantine? Do you have any better pictures of the fish in question? How were they acclimated to your system? Also what are your water parameters?

Big G · Jan 23, 2018

I have to be honest the fish lying on it's side is not good. Sounds like you may have brought velvet into your tank with the rapid death of one and the decline of this one. Here's Humblefish's Emergency Treatment for Velvet. Time is of the essence. Note how Humblefish has written how the fish in the case he describes did much better with the acriflavine after the freshwater dip:

Emergency Treatment for Marine Velvet Disease

I recently acquired 3 fish - Longnose Butterfly, Kole Tang, Naso Tang - with velvet. None showed visible physical symptoms right away, but they all came from a tank where velvet was known to be present so I just patiently waited. Before & after pictures will follow immediately after this write-up.

In short, the Butterflyfish didn’t make it; however the two tangs did. The only difference in their treatment was I used formalin (with Methylene Blue) on the butterfly in a bath solution, whereas the tangs got acriflavine (with NO Methylene Blue). It’s also worth noting that the butterfly & Kole Tang showed symptoms the worst, whereas the Naso only had moderate visible symptoms. Tangs are also generally considered hardier than butterflyfish, so there’s that factor to consider as well. Anyway, here is the treatment I used on them:

The short version:

5 minute freshwater dip
Immediately afterwards, perform a chemical bath (in saltwater matching SG/temp the fish came from). You have two options:

Acriflavine (preferred) - Do the bath for 75-90 minutes, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain acriflavine: Acriflavine-MS and Ruby Reef Rally. DO NOT mix acriflavine with any other chemicals.
Formalin - Do the bath for 30-60 minutes max, but remove the fish immediately at the first sign of distress. Aerate heavily both before & during the bath, and temperature control the water. The following products contain formalin: Formalin-MS, Quick Cure, Aquarium Solutions Ich-X, Kordon Rid-Ich Plus. Use protection (rubber gloves, face mask, eye protection, etc.) whenever handling formalin as it is a known carcinogen! However, you can add Methylene Blue to the formalin bath (1 capful per 2-3 gallons of bath water.)

After the bath, place the fish in a QT pre-dosed at 80mg/gal using Chloroquine phosphate. In theory, copper (exs. Cupramine, Coppersafe, Copper Power) should work just as well as CP. However, due to how fast velvet can reproduce you don’t have the luxury of slowly ramping up the copper level as is normally advised. Therefore, the fish needs to be placed in a QT with copper already at minimum therapeutic levels. This is the advantage CP has over copper in this particular situation.
While in QT, use a wide spectrum antibiotic (exs. Seachem Kanaplex, Furan-2) for the first week to ward off any possible bacterial infections. Secondary bacterial infections are very common in fish with preexisting parasitic infestations such as velvet.
Keep the fish in CP or copper (at therapeutic levels) for one month. However, you can transfer the fish into a non-medicated holding tank for observation after just two weeks (explained below). DO NOT lower the CP or copper level before transferring.

pmaddox · Jan 23, 2018

crabs_mcjones said:
So you didn't run them through a quarantine? Do you have any better pictures of the fish in question? How were they acclimated to your system? Also what are your water parameters?

The consultant I bought from quarantines for a month as part of the service. It's one of the main chose him.

Last Params (8 days ago)

pH 8.2 NO3 10 Salinity 1.025 CA 400 Alk 8.57 PO4 0.242 Temp 77.9

I don't know if I'm too late or what. I know I don't have those meds on hand so I've gotta decide where to go from here.

Here are 2 photos closer up. The seller suggested he has a cut.

Crabs McJones · Jan 23, 2018

Let's call in the pros @Humblefish @4FordFamily and see if anyone from #reefsquad might know.

Big G · Jan 23, 2018

The only quarantine you can truly trust is your own. Prophylactically treating for both Ich/Velvet & internal parasites normally takes 30 days just for the ich/velvet (using copper) & another 10-14 days for the internal parasites (using praziquantel). And then you observe for another 10-14 days before adding into your DT. Sometimes another round of treatment is needed for one or both of the parasites you are trying to keep out of your DT.

Here's the complete QT treatment by our own Humblefish: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/how-to-quarantine.189815/#post-2177961

Maritimer · Jan 23, 2018

How does this guy's breathing look? Is he breathing normally or at an accelerated rate?

He seems to be in decent shape, for a fish that's in such bad shape - have you seen any signs of internal parasites? Stringy, white poop? I don't see the "cut" you mentioned, and am struck by the brightness of his color and erect fins.

~Bruce

4FordFamily · Jan 23, 2018

Here’s some reading in why LFS cannot treat and properly quarantine fish and you should do this yourself:

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/lfs-fish-“treatment”-the-“sudden”-need-for-quarantine.308/

pmaddox · Jan 24, 2018

He didn't make it, FYI.

The breathing was rapid and there were no signs of illness. I didn't see the damage that was suggested either on closer inspection (post mortem).

Also, this was not an LFS where I acquired the fish. It's an individual aquarium consultant and he doesn't house a large number of fish at one time. At any rate, live and learn. If i've learned anything in this hobby, it's that there is not 100% solution to many problems and something that works well for one person may not work for another.

Watching a fish / coral die while at the same time 'watching' my money burn is no fun.

Thanks for the fast responses!