Can a Mandarin throw a reef out of balance?

[Tavero]

Valid points, all of them.

No, I have not done ICP, and agree that might tell me a lot. I freely admit there is a lot that I don't know and this could be due to something I'm not thinking about and/or something I'm not seeing.

I keep track using Aquarimate, and everything over the past few years has been steady. But to give you an idea here the latest parameters read as follows:
Nitrate: 13.5 (Hanna)
Phosphate: 0.07 (Hanna)
Calcium: 460 (Hanna)
Alkalinity: 8.7 (Hanna)
Magnesium: 1350 (AquaForest)
Salinity: 1.026 (refractometer calibrated w/ BRS 35ppt calibration fluid)
pH: 8.14 (pHep+)
Temperature: 79.2 (pHep+, and thermometer)

I rotate feeding about 6-8 different kinds of frozen food, once daily, at night, and I use Hikari almost exclusively as I am a big believer in the cleanliness and nutritional value of their food.

I dose ESV 2-Part, about 18mL per day of each, divided into 12 doses each over 24-hour period (i.e., every 2 hours, 5 mins apart from each other). I acknowledge that ESV does contain trace elements, which over time absolutely can accumulate. I do perform 10G water changes monthly, and I use AquaForest salt mix (regular stuff, no enzymes or anything like that).

My tank is in my family room and I'm looking at it every single day, and the only thing that I can remember adding that made a difference in the appearance and health of my tank (in a before/after kind of way) was the Mandarin.

Appreciate any further thoughts you might have.

I am using the balling light method by fauna marin, and even though my solutions contain 150% recommended trace elements, my last icp has shown a depletion of almost all of them. Not saying your favia died because of that but there is always the possibility. When it comes to diatoms: is your RODI system in proper condition?

 

[Homebrewer]

I am using the balling light method by fauna marin, and even though my solutions contain 150% recommended trace elements, my last icp has shown a depletion of almost all of them. Not saying your favia died because of that but there is always the possibility. When it comes to diatoms: is your RODI system in proper condition?

Good to know about the trace. Very interesting stuff.

I've thought about the RO/DI thing too. My filters are relatively fresh, as is my membrane, but my canisters are ancient. This might sound strange too but it did cross my mind that there could have been algae growing inside some of the plastic at some point. I was thinking of hitting the reset button and buying a brand new system on black friday (they usually go on steep sale then). But yeah, that could be part of the problem too. Good thinking.

 

[Buckeye Hydro]

Good to know about the trace. Very interesting stuff.

I've thought about the RO/DI thing too. My filters are relatively fresh, as is my membrane, but my canisters are ancient. This might sound strange too but it did cross my mind that there could have been algae growing inside some of the plastic at some point. I was thinking of hitting the reset button and buying a brand new system on black friday (they usually go on steep sale then). But yeah, that could be part of the problem too. Good thinking.

If there is algae going inside your housings, simply clean them and sanitize them. No need to replace. That would be like replacing your car because the windshield is dirty.

You can find instructions here: https://www.buckeyehydro.com/content/Sanitizing_RO_RODI.pdf

 

[shcrimps]

for science i’m no help
i have a 65g tank with a mandarin only a year established and no algae issues at all
however once a month or so i go to the beach and gather all kinds of pods to supplement since im also running a canister filter
a lot do get stuck in the pre filter but there’s plenty within the rock work
if viable you can do an above tank “fuge” or use a hang on back fuge solely for rearing pods to have a steady output of them to the tank
macro algae plus safe haven for those guys should cure that algae issue you’re having and also be a good food source if you have any fish or inverts that will graze on macro algae

 

[scotty333]

I have never added or bought a pod in my life and I don't have a fuge or refugium. I also have never dosed Phyto. As long as you don't medicate anything in your tank, the pods should grow like crazy. You may want to throw some sinking pellets in there to feed them in a place where the fish can't get to.

I have 50+ fish in my 125 gallon tank

Can I see 59 fish pleeeeeease

 

[SAY]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. If this is an unusual situation, I would say that it might be because I do not have a sump/fuge to help with the population. That could explain why I may be seeing this while many others don't. Paul B doesn't seem to have this problem, but then again, his tank is legendary and would be an insult to the reefing community to compare mine to his!

I had this same thought about a tank I once had set up that I felt was running smoothly until I added a mandarin. My pod population reduction was very noticeable, and I began having issues similar to what you described. However, i freely admit that there are many different possible causes but I had the same thought as you at the time.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Yes, I have seen it happen multiple times. Copepods are a major cleanup crew and when you introduce a mandarin dragonet they will destroy the copepod population, copepods may survive but it will be no where near the same as if you had no mandarin, or no other small copepod consuming fish. The diversity in the aquarium will shift dramatically in my experience and things get ugly for a little while. It will recover in time.

 

[SueAubu]

Hi friends, been a while since I posted but I have a question. First some background....

I have a 65G mixed reef tank that's been up and running for almost 18 years. I've had a lot of success keeping it simple, started with a ton of old school live rock, a canister filter (I know, right?) and a HOB skimmer. I piped an RO/DI system off a line in my basement, and I do 10G water changes monthly, along with an hour or so of maintenance. I feed a variety of frozen foods, plus occasionally live brine and pellet. Say what you will about my setup, but it's been relatively bullet proof for almost two decades. As a footnote, my mated clown pair just turned 18 years old (carryover from my first tank)!

ANYWHO, I've always wanted a mandarin and I added one a little less than a year ago. I know, I know, I don't have a sump or a fuge but my pod situation seemed to be able to support one so I went for it. The mandarin is healthy, eats whatever, grazes all day (typical behavior), and he's just awesome to watch. However, since adding him I've had some various issues in my tank. I noticed for the first time in a billion years that I've had some brown stuff (diatoms, etc.) on my sand, and I even had a bout of cyano run through the tank (since eradicated). I recently lost a dragon soul favia, and now some of my chalices are taking a hit, PLUS I'm seeing GHA creep up every now and again. No other additions to the tank, coral or otherwise, since adding him.

My theory is that the mandarin is consuming enough copepods to sustain himself, but it has decreased the overall population of pods in my tank to the point where now the tank is suffering. If I have to sell it off for the betterment of the tank, I will. I'm not going to add a fuge, sump, etc., so it is what it is.

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions/experiences on the matter?

Thanks in advance,
Homebrewer

I supplement my mandarin with baby brine shrimp feeding. With all the pigs in my tank there just aren't enough pods for anyone.

 

[RSNJReef]

In my opinion, anything is possible, and a diminished pod population (which is part of the clean up crew), could possibly trigger a film algae growth event. I second on starting to dose a little phyto and feed the teef enhance (I use it myself daily, a tiny sprinkle along with benepets, and it seems to help a lot with reducing film algae).

The other thing most people overlook is when you introduce any new non-quarantined fish into your display, you are introducing the gut contents of that fish into your tank as well. So anything that fish consumed in the prior tank (in this case pods, which could have consumed diatoms and cyano), can then be introduced into your tank. A mandarin also has a very short digestive tract, so some of the food that the mandarin consumed will be pooped out partially un-digested.

Now, it’s a long shot that a fingernail of diatom/cyano poop would trigger a tank event, but, anything is possible. Just pointing this out for people to consider as well when introducing a new fish. That’s why sometimes when you introduce a new tang, you can sometimes see a new algae get introduced into a tank.

 

[Homebrewer]

Yes, I have seen it happen multiple times. Copepods are a major cleanup crew and when you introduce a mandarin dragonet they will destroy the copepod population, copepods may survive but it will be no where near the same as if you had no mandarin, or no other small copepod consuming fish. The diversity in the aquarium will shift dramatically in my experience and things get ugly for a little while. It will recover in time.

I appreciate the anecdote and experience here. I plan to up the phyto dose and pay a little more attention to the tank. Hoping it recovers as you mention!

 

[Homebrewer]

I supplement my mandarin with baby brine shrimp feeding. With all the pigs in my tank there just aren't enough pods for anyone.

Yeah, I have a hatchery but have gotten lazy and haven’t added any baby brine to the display in a while. I better get back on that. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Homebrewer]

In my opinion, anything is possible, and a diminished pod population (which is part of the clean up crew), could possibly trigger a film algae growth event. I second on starting to dose a little phyto and feed the teef enhance (I use it myself daily, a tiny sprinkle along with benepets, and it seems to help a lot with reducing film algae).

The other thing most people overlook is when you introduce any new non-quarantined fish into your display, you are introducing the gut contents of that fish into your tank as well. So anything that fish consumed in the prior tank (in this case pods, which could have consumed diatoms and cyano), can then be introduced into your tank. A mandarin also has a very short digestive tract, so some of the food that the mandarin consumed will be pooped out partially un-digested.

Now, it’s a long shot that a fingernail of diatom/cyano poop would trigger a tank event, but, anything is possible. Just pointing this out for people to consider as well when introducing a new fish. That’s why sometimes when you introduce a new tang, you can sometimes see a new algae get introduced into a tank.

Very interesting observation. I hadn’t thought about algae transfer to this level, but you’re right, it is certainly possible.

 

[Homebrewer]

Really appreciate all the input. At this point I’m thinking that adding the Mandarin had SOME effect, the exact cause and effect relationship is likely not able to be definitively determined. There as at least some basis for an association between adding the fish and the effects seen, but exactly what is going on / has gone on will likely take time to figure out.

Thanks again!

 

[Paul B]

Can I see 59 fish pleeeeeease

I'm going to try to list my fish, mostly for my benefit but I don't know what many of them are.

2 Fireclowns
3 Red Waspfish
7, 9 or 10 clown gobies, different colors. Green, Black, blue, yellow and gray
2 six line wrasses
2 Possum Wrasses.
1 some kind of red fish, maybe a cardinal, I have no idea and don't remember buying it
1 Hippo Tang
1 Tamini Tang
1 Chalk Bass
2 Bangai Cardinals
2 Sunburst Anthius
3 Neon Gobies
3 Hectors gobies
1 Black something
1 Filefish
2 Blue stripe pipefish
2 Watchman Gobies
2 Mandarins
1 Red Scooter Dragonette
1 Perchlet
2-3- or 4 small bleenies
2 Possum Wrasses
1 Long Nose Hawkfish
1 Ruby Red dragonette

So about 50 fish. I'm sure I missed one of two.

 

[Charles Zinn]

Hi friends, been a while since I posted but I have a question. First some background....

I have a 65G mixed reef tank that's been up and running for almost 18 years. I've had a lot of success keeping it simple, started with a ton of old school live rock, a canister filter (I know, right?) and a HOB skimmer. I piped an RO/DI system off a line in my basement, and I do 10G water changes monthly, along with an hour or so of maintenance. I feed a variety of frozen foods, plus occasionally live brine and pellet. Say what you will about my setup, but it's been relatively bullet proof for almost two decades. As a footnote, my mated clown pair just turned 18 years old (carryover from my first tank)!

ANYWHO, I've always wanted a mandarin and I added one a little less than a year ago. I know, I know, I don't have a sump or a fuge but my pod situation seemed to be able to support one so I went for it. The mandarin is healthy, eats whatever, grazes all day (typical behavior), and he's just awesome to watch. However, since adding him I've had some various issues in my tank. I noticed for the first time in a billion years that I've had some brown stuff (diatoms, etc.) on my sand, and I even had a bout of cyano run through the tank (since eradicated). I recently lost a dragon soul favia, and now some of my chalices are taking a hit, PLUS I'm seeing GHA creep up every now and again. No other additions to the tank, coral or otherwise, since adding him.

My theory is that the mandarin is consuming enough copepods to sustain himself, but it has decreased the overall population of pods in my tank to the point where now the tank is suffering. If I have to sell it off for the betterment of the tank, I will. I'm not going to add a fuge, sump, etc., so it is what it is.

Anyone have any thoughts/opinions/experiences on the matter?

Thanks in advance,
Homebrewer

Test theory by adding more pods to system.
Do an ICP test to see if anything off in trace el.ements. or if water treatments in area are off.
you may want to test RO water too. Have heard that even if readings of ro TDS are low Icp could still be off.

 

[SueAubu]

1 some kind of red fish, maybe a cardinal, I have no idea and don't remember buying it
.

I wanna be you when I grow up.... Hahahaha