Blue Tang Itching but heavy breathing, copper or prazi first?

[Hezam]

Hello everyone,

I have a blue Tang and a Rabbit fox face together in quarantine in a 20 gallon. First day was rough for both but second day much better. The tang is pretty much wedged in between a PVC pipe and doesn't move. I thought he was a goner tbh. But when I put food we he would go eat and then go back to his spot. Third day is today and I wanna medicate.

Fox face is eating and swimming around fine. The tang is definitely scratching it self around. Observed it two times at least. Does that confirm flukes? Visually there isn't anything obvious. No white spots no nothing on both fish. BUT the tang sometimes breathes very heavily. What should do, start copper or general cure (prazi)? I wanna do copper first to make sure velvet won't pop up or ich but I am heavy suspecting flukes. What do you guys think?

 

[Gumbies R Us]

#fishmedics

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hello everyone,

I have a blue Tang and a Rabbit fox face together in quarantine in a 20 gallon. First day was rough for both but second day much better. The tang is pretty much wedged in between a PVC pipe and doesn't move. I thought he was a goner tbh. But when I put food we he would go eat and then go back to his spot. Third day is today and I wanna medicate.

Fox face is eating and swimming around fine. The tang is definitely scratching it self around. Observed it two times at least. Does that confirm flukes? Visually there isn't anything obvious. No white spots no nothing on both fish. BUT the tang sometimes breathes very heavily. What should do, start copper or general cure (prazi)? I wanna do copper first to make sure velvet won't pop up or ich but I am heavy suspecting flukes. What do you guys think?

I see dots on the fish suggesting ich involved. Are you currently medicating this tank?
If so, with what and at what level/dosage?

 

[Hezam]

Ok It seems he likes brine because as soon as I fed the tank it swam up to eat, I managed to get pictures.

Sorry for the really bad pictures, lights are off. If I turn off the lights they get really spooked.
There is a bit of a sunken belly I realized also

 

[Hezam]

I see dots on the fish suggesting ich involved. Are you currently medicating this tank?
If so, with what and at what level/dosage

Nope, I wanted to medicate now but I suspected flukes that's why I didn't put copper. Should I just go ahead with the copper.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Nope, I wanted to medicate now but I suspected flukes that's why I didn't put copper. Should I just go ahead with the copper.

With the copper - yes. Flukes you generally will not see with the naked eye but rather symptoms such as scratching, heavy breathing, loss of appetite, red gills, cloudy eyes as examples.
Run coppersafe at 2.25 level monitored with Hanna brand copper test kit and keep an eye on ammonia level.

 

[Hezam]

Ok I went ahead and put copper at half dose at 1ppm and will raise in 24 hours.

I was really confused. The tang has have scratching and heavy breathing but not loss of appetite or cloudy eyes or red gills. This quarantine thing is very hard because all the symptoms look the same! I was trying to "diagnose" but ended up being even more confused. I will follow the general qt protocol and hope for the best. Thanks for the really quick replies.

With the copper - yes. Flukes you generally will not see with the naked eye but rather symptoms such as scratching, heavy breathing, loss of appetite, red gills, cloudy eyes as examples.
Run coppersafe at 2.25 level monitored with Hanna brand copper test kit and keep an eye on ammonia level.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Do

Ok I went ahead and put copper at half dose at 1ppm and will raise in 24 hours.

I was really confused. The tang has have scratching and heavy breathing but not loss of appetite or cloudy eyes or red gills. This quarantine thing is very hard because all the symptoms look the same! I was trying to "diagnose" but ended up being even more confused. I will follow the general qt protocol and hope for the best. Thanks for the really quick replies.

Do not ramp. Get to level before end of day. Ramping allows disease to gain hold of the fish

 

[Hezam]

Ok got it, just tested it's at 1.5, will raise to 2.25 before end of day. @vetteguy53081

 

[Hezam]

Do

Do not ramp. Get to level before end of day. Ramping allows disease to gain hold of the fish

Or should I just go 2.5 ppm right now directly?

 

[Rappa]

@vetteguy53081

Could he/she do a fresh water dip while ramping up the coppersafe? Would that be harmful to the fish? I've been wondering how I would treat this if I saw these symptoms with a new fish that I am beginning QT'ing... I've seen videos online where people do FW-Dip to all Tangs as soon as they arrive. Thx.

 

[vetteguy53081]

@vetteguy53081

Could he/she do a fresh water dip while ramping up the coppersafe? Would that be harmful to the fish? I've been wondering how I would treat this if I saw these symptoms with a new fish that I am beginning QT'ing... I've seen videos online where people do FW-Dip to all Tangs as soon as they arrive. Thx.

Freshwater dip is a measure and temporary one for relief of flukes and even heavy mucus and can in essence stress a fish out. The symptoms the fish has is not warranted for a FW dip.
Be careful with those videos as every out come is different. Dropping a fish directly into Fresh water can cause osmotic shock to certain fish. I have 26 tangs and not one has seen freshwater
Good question you asked

 

[vetteguy53081]

Or should I just go 2.5 ppm right now directly?

Yes and at least within 24 hours. Coppersafe is a chelated form and the safest

 

[Hezam]

@vetteguy53081

Could he/she do a fresh water dip while ramping up the coppersafe? Would that be harmful to the fish? I've been wondering how I would treat this if I saw these symptoms with a new fish that I am beginning QT'ing... I've seen videos online where people do FW-Dip to all Tangs as soon as they arrive. Thx.

I thought about that but I decided against it. I didn't want to stress the fish anymore and give the disease time to hold on when in extreme stress.

 

[Rappa]

Freshwater dip is a measure and temporary one for relief of flukes and even heavy mucus and can in essence stress a fish out. The symptoms the fish has is not warranted for a FW dip.
Be careful with those videos as every out come is different. Dropping a fish directly into Fresh water can cause osmotic shock to certain fish. I have 26 tangs and not one has seen freshwater
Good question you asked

Thanks for the reply. I'm glad you said that about your tangs. I have 6 myself, and none of them have seen freshwater, but I had been wondering if I should have done it initially... After watching those videos admittedly... Occasionally, I see spots on one or two of them that could look like flukes in the moment. They always disappear in a few-ish days, so I assume they are just aggression marks from them ticking each other off every now and then...

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Not really a definitive answer for this.....

FW dips are a temporary method for reducing flukes prior to a copper treatment. However, there is always some risk involved (mostly with people mishandling their fish trying to catch them). You can dose coppersafe and praziquantel powder at the same time, but substituting that pure prazi powder with either General Cure or Prazipro increases the stress on the fish.

 

[Hezam]

Hello guys,

So some good news, yesterday I administered the copper and confirmed it was at a level of 2.34. I checked on the blue tang and it was looking ROUGH, it was pale blue and wasn't breathing. I honestly thought that this was the end and it died. I went to sleep very sad. Next day I go to the QT as soon as I wake and its looking MUCH better. Swimming around and not hiding, it regained its color, and its appetite was much better. Both the foxface and the blue tang were eating and swimming around.

Although its much more active now, its still twitching, here is the video I got. Can anyone help me with this behavior? I am looking for prazipro but I can't find it. I only have general cure.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hello guys,

So some good news, yesterday I administered the copper and confirmed it was at a level of 2.34. I checked on the blue tang and it was looking ROUGH, it was pale blue and wasn't breathing. I honestly thought that this was the end and it died. I went to sleep very sad. Next day I go to the QT as soon as I wake and its looking MUCH better. Swimming around and not hiding, it regained its color, and its appetite was much better. Both the foxface and the blue tang were eating and swimming around.

Although its much more active now, its still twitching, here is the video I got. Can anyone help me with this behavior? I am looking for prazipro but I can't find it. I only have general cure.

Did you give the tang a FW dip? Copper typically takes 2 to 3 days to start helping a fish (because it only kills one stage of the protozoan parasite).

A FW dip is more instantaneous because it knocks most flukes off right away. Sometimes the fish looks much worse right after a dip but then improves the next day. That is due to the open lesions left by the flukes.

FW dips won’t cure flukes, they just buy you some time. The continued scratching is either leftover flukes and/or skin irritation from where the flukes were.

You have two options: run copper and general cure at the same time and just hope for the best regarding the increased stress, or continue with the copper, giving the fish FW dip every 5 days to keep the flukes in check, then when the copper is done, run a general cure treatment.

 

[Hezam]

Did you give the tang a FW dip? Copper typically takes 2 to 3 days to start helping a fish (because it only kills one stage of the protozoan parasite).

A FW dip is more instantaneous because it knocks most flukes off right away. Sometimes the fish looks much worse right after a dip but then improves the next day. That is due to the open lesions left by the flukes.

FW dips won’t cure flukes, they just buy you some time. The continued scratching is either leftover flukes and/or skin irritation from where the flukes were.

You have two options: run copper and general cure at the same time and just hope for the best regarding the increased stress, or continue with the copper, giving the fish FW dip every 5 days to keep the flukes in check, then when the copper is done, run a general cure treatment.

No not yet, yesterday I decided against it because the fish wasn't doing so well. I don't think she would've lived the shock of FW dip. Today it has regained some of it's strength but I am still hesitant.

I honestly don't know, what would you recommend? The copper doesn't kill the flukes right?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

No not yet, yesterday I decided against it because the fish wasn't doing so well. I don't think she would've lived the shock of FW dip. Today it has regained some of it's strength but I am still hesitant.

I honestly don't know, what would you recommend? The copper doesn't kill the flukes right?

Copper does not kill adult flukes.

I would let the fish stay in the copper for three days to see if the improvement continues, and then deal with possible flukes.

Because of the life cycle of some protozoans, moving a fish to a new tank can give some temporary improvement, so you need to see if the copper then starts to kick in.