Black Onyx True Percula - Color changing due to species of anemone host?

[MNSPS]

Hi,

I have been looking into acquiring a pair of wild caught Black Onyx True Percula clownfish. I have been looking at either a magnifica or a gigantea anemone as a host. I recently was told the clownfish will lose their black pigmentation over time when hosted in a magnifica anemone but this won't occur if hosted in a gigantea anemone. I have never heard this before, but found it interesting and was wondering if anyone else has experience with hosting this variety of clownfish in various anemone species and have noticed the clownish coloration changing.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[D-Nak]

I've heard of this happening as well, but have never experienced it -- and I have both magnifica and gigantea anemones.

What's somewhat ironic is that if you don't want to risk the colors fading, then don't get a pair of wild caught clownfish. Instead, look for a pair of C-Quest Onyx clowns. Those were selectively bred to maintain their black coloration.

I pulled this information from another site; not sure if I can link to it:

"ONYX is just a term coined by Bill Addison from C-Quest early on when he fixed the strain in the early days. Original ancestors were SI perculas with black in them. The stories goes that he noticed that in every batch of SI percs, there are a few that attain and retain their black color more, so he goes on and selective pair and breed those with the more black through many (5+) generations until alot of those "onyx" offsprings get the more melanistic traits and develop the black alot faster.

Nowdays the true onyx definition is that the percula have to have the body area between the first & second bar completely black, and also the body area between the 2nd & 3rd bar completely black. The fins, tail, mouth are optional. And it has to be a true percula (not like a onyx + black ocellaris mix).

Of course you will see different variation of 'onyx' at LFS as putting such a term on the fish guarantee higher retail value.

Typically w.c. ONYX occurs more from the SI, PNG area. In the trade, wild caught Full onyx coloration occurs around 1/200 or so depending on their collection area. And w.c. ONYX will lose their color depending on anemone (or perhaps without one in QT). Another factor that affects the blackness in true percula is their maturity, spawning adult females tend to have more black on them."

The hard part is finding a nice pair of C-Quest line Onyx without any defects. I assume since you're looking for a wild pair that you want them without defects. Full disclosure: I have bred them in the past (and plan to ramp production back up soon) and it is extremely difficult to breed them without any defects. What bothers me the most if that many of the ones we see in the market lack the high dorsal fin. I'm currently working with a C-Quest Onyx and wild SI onyx pair, in hopes of bringing back some of the wild gene to give the fish a more "wild" look.

 

[The new fish on the block]

This was my delima too… except I have Picasso clowns. I have read where it may be due to their diet, and changing food can help I will have to find that thread.

I've heard of this happening as well, but have never experienced it -- and I have both magnifica and gigantea anemones.

What's somewhat ironic is that if you don't want to risk the colors fading, then don't get a pair of wild caught clownfish. Instead, look for a pair of C-Quest Onyx clowns. Those were selectively bred to maintain their black coloration.

I pulled this information from another site; not sure if I can link to it:

"ONYX is just a term coined by Bill Addison from C-Quest early on when he fixed the strain in the early days. Original ancestors were SI perculas with black in them. The stories goes that he noticed that in every batch of SI percs, there are a few that attain and retain their black color more, so he goes on and selective pair and breed those with the more black through many (5+) generations until alot of those "onyx" offsprings get the more melanistic traits and develop the black alot faster.

Nowdays the true onyx definition is that the percula have to have the body area between the first & second bar completely black, and also the body area between the 2nd & 3rd bar completely black. The fins, tail, mouth are optional. And it has to be a true percula (not like a onyx + black ocellaris mix).

Of course you will see different variation of 'onyx' at LFS as putting such a term on the fish guarantee higher retail value.

Typically w.c. ONYX occurs more from the SI, PNG area. In the trade, wild caught Full onyx coloration occurs around 1/200 or so depending on their collection area. And w.c. ONYX will lose their color depending on anemone (or perhaps without one in QT). Another factor that affects the blackness in true percula is their maturity, spawning adult females tend to have more black on them."

The hard part is finding a nice pair of C-Quest line Onyx without any defects. I assume since you're looking for a wild pair that you want them without defects. Full disclosure: I have bred them in the past (and plan to ramp production back up soon) and it is extremely difficult to breed them without any defects. What bothers me the most if that many of the ones we see in the market lack the high dorsal fin. I'm currently working with a C-Quest Onyx and wild SI onyx pair, in hopes of bringing back some of the wild gene to give the fish a more "wild" look.

@D-Nak could you share what you look for in a clownfish defect wise? and what differentiates the high quality from the low quality clowns?

 

[MNSPS]

I've heard of this happening as well, but have never experienced it -- and I have both magnifica and gigantea anemones.

What's somewhat ironic is that if you don't want to risk the colors fading, then don't get a pair of wild caught clownfish. Instead, look for a pair of C-Quest Onyx clowns. Those were selectively bred to maintain their black coloration.

I pulled this information from another site; not sure if I can link to it:

"ONYX is just a term coined by Bill Addison from C-Quest early on when he fixed the strain in the early days. Original ancestors were SI perculas with black in them. The stories goes that he noticed that in every batch of SI percs, there are a few that attain and retain their black color more, so he goes on and selective pair and breed those with the more black through many (5+) generations until alot of those "onyx" offsprings get the more melanistic traits and develop the black alot faster.

Nowdays the true onyx definition is that the percula have to have the body area between the first & second bar completely black, and also the body area between the 2nd & 3rd bar completely black. The fins, tail, mouth are optional. And it has to be a true percula (not like a onyx + black ocellaris mix).

Of course you will see different variation of 'onyx' at LFS as putting such a term on the fish guarantee higher retail value.

Typically w.c. ONYX occurs more from the SI, PNG area. In the trade, wild caught Full onyx coloration occurs around 1/200 or so depending on their collection area. And w.c. ONYX will lose their color depending on anemone (or perhaps without one in QT). Another factor that affects the blackness in true percula is their maturity, spawning adult females tend to have more black on them."

The hard part is finding a nice pair of C-Quest line Onyx without any defects. I assume since you're looking for a wild pair that you want them without defects. Full disclosure: I have bred them in the past (and plan to ramp production back up soon) and it is extremely difficult to breed them without any defects. What bothers me the most if that many of the ones we see in the market lack the high dorsal fin. I'm currently working with a C-Quest Onyx and wild SI onyx pair, in hopes of bringing back some of the wild gene to give the fish a more "wild" look.

Thanks! I think I found the same information from that other site as well. Are your Onyx Clowns wild caught or captive bred? Do you know of a good source for the C-Quest Onyx clowns? I'm guessing with the wild caught there is a chance of losing some of the black coloration but not all of it? I would rather risk that then having a deformed fish.

 

[D-Nak]

@D-Nak could you share what you look for in a clownfish defect wise? and what differentiates the high quality from the low quality clowns?

For all clownfish, I look for flared gills (the gill flaps that curl out or back, and in extreme cases the gill is actually exposed), a square or "bull-dog" shaped head (the head is angular or squared instead of rounded), and pinched heads (the head is a lot smaller than the body, and in extreme cases there is a pronounced slope from body to head). Of course, there are also body defects where the vertebrae aren't fully developed or deformed, resulting in smaller/shorter bodies and also kinked or crooked spines.

For Picasso specifically, I look for a high dorsal fin--for some reason a lot of tank-raised Picassos lack this, and the dorsal seems to be smaller/short in height than wild clownfish.

High quality fish have minimal defects, and coloration is bright and well defined.

 

[D-Nak]

Thanks! I think I found the same information from that other site as well. Are your Onyx Clowns wild caught or captive bred? Do you know of a good source for the C-Quest Onyx clowns? I'm guessing with the wild caught there is a chance of losing some of the black coloration but not all of it? I would rather risk that then having a deformed fish.

I have both wild caught and captive bred. I differentiate the two in the following ways:

1. Wild onyx = lowercase "o" (oftentimes referred to as SI/PNG percula clownfish; SI meaning Solomon Island and PNG meaning Papua New Guinea)
2. C-Quest Onyx = uppercase "O" as if it's a brand name

I don't know of a good source foe C-Quest Onyx though most of the larger breeders have pairs producing them, meaning your LFS should be able to order a pair for you, though the quality will vary.

Yes, with wild caught there is a chance that they may lose some black. Some believe that it is due to the host anemone, others think that it's based on where they were caught--from shallower water where the black is a melanistic trait due to more exposure to the sun/UV rays. The belief is that as lighting changes, then their color may change. But, as I previously mentioned, this hasn't happened to me, and I attribute that to all of mine being in tanks with relatively high PAR (which assumes they have similar UV exposure as to where they were collected).

And I agree with you: I too would rather have a wild onyx that changes color than a tank-raised one with deformities.

 

[OrionN]

Only A. percula sometime lose their black coloration in Magnifica and BTA. Black Ocellaris will not lose their black color in these same host anemones. This is the same pair, in the same anemone at various times, and also when they were not in the anemone. This pair, the male is a Black Ocellaris (snowflake) and the female is a wild caught Onyx Percula.
From previous experiences, remove them from the Magnifica, they will regain their color (host-less) or put them in Gigantea or Haddoni. Because of this reason, regain their color without host, I deduce that there is something in the Magnifca cause them to lose their black color, but only sometime, not every time.
Not hosted by the Magnifica

Previous in the purple tip Magnifica

Current picture in the same magnifica. Notice the Onyx Percula looks like nothing of the sort.

 

[OrionN]

Took pictures of the same two fish just now

 

[Vincenc]

C-Quest

 

[Vincenc]

C-QUEST