Biome Cycling idea
- Thread starter Tenelen
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carri10
Active Member
To reply to the OP, how much time do you have? If you can get some (even a little) live rock and put it in a container with your dry rock, add a shrimp (frozen) a week and change water every month or so, you should get your dry rock “seeded” in some way with surface microbes and maybe other things after a few months
This will be better than just starting from zero. How much better, I can’t say.
Agree with a lot of comments that diversity is what you need. And that comes from live rock and diverse sources.
And time…
This will be better than just starting from zero. How much better, I can’t say.
Agree with a lot of comments that diversity is what you need. And that comes from live rock and diverse sources.
And time…
nice call/substrate packet transfer. in oxygen-permeable material = would be powerful
no fancy testing needed: just fallow it 90 days with feed microdoses before selling it/disease vector controls simple/ that would strip reefs though so most places would not do it
even getting an ounce of the water might be hard to do on a mass scale
but talk about a powerful microbiome seed.
no fancy testing needed: just fallow it 90 days with feed microdoses before selling it/disease vector controls simple/ that would strip reefs though so most places would not do it
even getting an ounce of the water might be hard to do on a mass scale
but talk about a powerful microbiome seed.
Ben's Pico Reefing
Valuable Member
AF life is a good source for minerals and nutrients. There will be some bacteria in this. I have used in past with not much change in results for corals. The focus is on coral and fish health. Biodiversity is fine, but doesn't matter how much we have if our corals and fish don't live. Dosing won't hurt your tank and may help promote corals by adding beneficial minerals we don't normally dose or have in our salt mixes or those that does. Use these sparingly though.
For diversity as other said try to order or get rocks from multiple tanks. They don't have to stay permanently and don't need much. But they will need time for real estate as they compete with already established things.
For diversity as other said try to order or get rocks from multiple tanks. They don't have to stay permanently and don't need much. But they will need time for real estate as they compete with already established things.
I'll always be pressing for the removal side of the equation though.
the market is shifting to what we add to reefs to keep them in top condition
but there's a hidden free market that exists on what's removed from a current reef tank to keep it running well, and that's long-term tested. shown to be a marked powerful method of invasion control too in reefing; to be export-oriented vs addition-oriented in reefing.
reef tanks are always accumulating floc
storing that, and justifying it in one way or another causes a lot of problems, it's like a mouth that doesn't go to the dentist.
but in systems that practice precision grazing as needed via tools to be uninvaded, while keeping all waste out of accumulation pockets in the system, allows naturally-imported reef microbiome constituents that do a perfectly good long term job on their own. without additions or supports. traded on hardscapes tank to tank.
spending effort to remove or design out collections of waste in the home reef system is better for long-term care than concern over adding to/boosting up strains. that's a for-sale angle, that matters in choosing best practices.
if you backflush a filter regularly and prevent clogging of surface area it tends to do fine with the original seeding. our reef tanks are giant surface area filters that benefit from high flow/ejection of waste vs storage designs.
my system is 18 years old and has never had it's microbiome added to other than frags. it gets regular dentist visits, that's why it's 18 vs a new tank. export based controls are powerful too, and they're free.
the market is shifting to what we add to reefs to keep them in top condition
but there's a hidden free market that exists on what's removed from a current reef tank to keep it running well, and that's long-term tested. shown to be a marked powerful method of invasion control too in reefing; to be export-oriented vs addition-oriented in reefing.
reef tanks are always accumulating floc
storing that, and justifying it in one way or another causes a lot of problems, it's like a mouth that doesn't go to the dentist.
but in systems that practice precision grazing as needed via tools to be uninvaded, while keeping all waste out of accumulation pockets in the system, allows naturally-imported reef microbiome constituents that do a perfectly good long term job on their own. without additions or supports. traded on hardscapes tank to tank.
spending effort to remove or design out collections of waste in the home reef system is better for long-term care than concern over adding to/boosting up strains. that's a for-sale angle, that matters in choosing best practices.
if you backflush a filter regularly and prevent clogging of surface area it tends to do fine with the original seeding. our reef tanks are giant surface area filters that benefit from high flow/ejection of waste vs storage designs.
my system is 18 years old and has never had it's microbiome added to other than frags. it gets regular dentist visits, that's why it's 18 vs a new tank. export based controls are powerful too, and they're free.
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I went to the BRS website and read the reviews with many folks suggesting that the product contained iron filings, in no small quantities. I have read other places that the ocean can be low in iron and that the addition of iron can help planktonic growth which might be helpful for corals? I don't know, but I recently went to a reef and collected sand and water and macroalgae to add microbes and macroplanktonic stuff to my reef. Lots of life came along, I hand carried it back and put it in the tank in less than 24 hours. Stuff in a bag is going to suffer some die off, but it will get some diversity of the durable bacterias.
Good luck!
ShanePike
Community Member
I think there are two basic scenarios: 1) Ryan is lying about the science to sell products and make himself richer or 2) he really believes the science that they're doing. I'm going with #2, especially since he's very up front that this concept is a work in progress and encourages others to do their own tests. That's what I'm doing. I'm setting up a new tank with dry rock and will be using various products to add biodiversity. We'll see how it goes.
OP
OP
Tenelen
Community Member
@RocketEngineer @KC2020 @ShanePike
Ok so update tank is cycling pretty well. Started cycling on Sunday and already losing detectable dosed ammonia and starting to spike Nitrite. Currently not running any filter media or skimmer. I did make a change on the build as my LFS gave me a deal on live rock, so I added that instead of dry rock. Uploaded some pics of the build and aquascape. Rocks in the middle for a Zoa garden, planning on going mixed reef with some SPS in about 5-6 months when the system is fully stable.
Ok so update tank is cycling pretty well. Started cycling on Sunday and already losing detectable dosed ammonia and starting to spike Nitrite. Currently not running any filter media or skimmer. I did make a change on the build as my LFS gave me a deal on live rock, so I added that instead of dry rock. Uploaded some pics of the build and aquascape. Rocks in the middle for a Zoa garden, planning on going mixed reef with some SPS in about 5-6 months when the system is fully stable.
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Gregg @ ADP
Valuable Member
It’s amazing to me that something as simple and inevitable as cycling a tank has become a hot button issue.
You could literally just pee in your tank a couple of times, walk away, come back in a month and start adding livestock.
You could literally just pee in your tank a couple of times, walk away, come back in a month and start adding livestock.
Jekyl
GSP is the devil and clowns are bad pets
I'll go one step further in saying that in that month time even without adding an ammonia source the tank would be cycled. Just through what enters the tank from the air.
Jekyl that's one of the untested things in reefing, truly unassisted cycles. amazing to think that in 2024 nobody has data on that timing/ability etc. I agree self cycling unassisted is possible / it's just we don't know what the timeframe is
it very well could be a month, anyone who owns a seneye would be able to answer this question and produce new data for the hobby.
there's isn't even an article on it: nobody in reefing knows that timeline.
The cleanest example Ive ever seen for such a timeline is from MSteven1, this thread, read from page 98 onward:
www.reef2reef.com
his showed full command ability on month 4 of wait time, we don't know how it would have worked on month 1 but I'd love to see it tested by anyone
it very well could be a month, anyone who owns a seneye would be able to answer this question and produce new data for the hobby.
there's isn't even an article on it: nobody in reefing knows that timeline.
The cleanest example Ive ever seen for such a timeline is from MSteven1, this thread, read from page 98 onward:
Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact
I have never seen that documented in twenty years of daily online reefing. Unassisted cycling happens sooner than your time frame, tbd, but I'd have bet the farm it'd take ninety days. I'm so happy to see that Cycling charts were written for freshwater You're providing data for a saltwater...
www.reef2reef.com
his showed full command ability on month 4 of wait time, we don't know how it would have worked on month 1 but I'd love to see it tested by anyone
Yeah, that will help, lol
OP
OP
Tenelen
Community Member
Well my friend who owns said LFS broke down my 150 a few months ago, and I gave him all the rock from the 150 (my physical disability made it to hard to maintain the 150 thus why I moved to a 50gal AIO much easier to maintain). So he let me take any of the live rock I needed for this tank.
So it's taken 3 days to make any impact on ammonia? How much ammonia did you add? Cheers
OP
OP
Tenelen
Community Member
4 drops per gallon at 50 gallons so 200 drops till it tested up to 5 ppm. Also have been testing Ammonia and Nitrite daily to monitor progression. I am currently standing at 1.5-2 ppm of Ammonia atm and around 2-2.5 PPM of Nitrite as of this morning.
RocketEngineer
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Please don’t go that high. 1-2 ppm of ammonia is more than enough to start the process.
That's good info, thanks
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This is exactly how my tank was "cycled" 20+ years ago. I placed the sand and reefer rock, filled it with water and let it run for a month or two while I worked on the basement and saved money for the needed equipment.
I don't recall how long it took for the cycle to kick off or complete, but it was long before anything was added to the tank.
The lights were turned on at some point after that and some live sand (maybe a cup) from a club members tank was added along with some fish and a bunch of donated frags.
It was not until years later when we hosted MACNA that actual live rock (Fiji and Tonga) were added as there was piles of it left over after MACNA teardown.
So the live sand was incidental. OK, sure. I love a good fish story.
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