Best way to cycle new tank with old tank?

[BaileysTank]

So pretty much I’m upgrading from a 55gal to a 90gal.I’ve had my 55 for about 3 years and it’s very mature, I’ll be using everything from the frist tank in my new tank.in the tank tank I’m also adding about 50% more dry rock. Im just wondering if there is a good method to allowingy new tank to cycle quickly and proficiently.

 

[LRT]

Hi Erin some really good stuff was posted in this thread on the topic "old water" usage for cycling. Check out post #485 and for anyone else interested theres alot of good stuff in the 2 pages leading up to post #485.

Should we rethink and refine means and methods for cycling tanks?

actually it was this particular comment I was remembering... but you "liked" that comment too, so close enough! :) HAHAHA - I was thinking about this one:) https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/should-we-rethink-and-refine-means-and-methods-for-cycling-tanks.865644/page-23#post-9482754

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I agree 100% that using old tank water won't help with the cycle, but I wouldn't say "don't use it.". There's no reason you can't use the old water in lieu of mixing brand new...

Hi Erin,

Well, let's hope the old water doesn't have any ich or the like. So there is always a reason, I would never use old water, but that's just me.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Hi Erin some really good stuff was posted in this thread on the topic "old water" usage for cycling. Check out post #485 and for anyone else interested theres alot of good stuff in the 2 pages leading up to post #485.

Should we rethink and refine means and methods for cycling tanks?

actually it was this particular comment I was remembering... but you "liked" that comment too, so close enough! :) HAHAHA - I was thinking about this one:) https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/should-we-rethink-and-refine-means-and-methods-for-cycling-tanks.865644/page-23#post-9482754

www.reef2reef.com

I'm not reading pages of something I'm not planning on debating. If you feel like trying to insta-cycle a new tank using only water from an established system, be my guest, but please don't post here about the livestock you lose.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Hi Erin,

Well, let's hope the old water doesn't have any ich or the like. So there is always a reason, I would never use old water, but that's just me.

Lolol!!! I mean, the rocks, sand, and fish the OP is moving over to the new tank will OBVIOUSLY be 100% free of ANY parasite or pathogen, so, yeah, WATER is what you should be worried about!

 

[LRT]

I'm not reading pages of something I'm not planning on debating. If you feel like trying to insta-cycle a new tank using only water from an established system, be my guest, but please don't post here about the livestock you lose.

I apologize I didn't mean to get you all fired up. I definetely respect your opinion and not going to say your wrong for feeling the way you do.
All im saying is the old myth about using old tank water has been inexplicably debunked and there's tons of tank transfer, when done right, never actually experience losses at all. In fact it's the exact opposite in my experience.

 

[LRT]

I propose that folks may want to look at water column a little more like it's alive and alot less like used old motor oil.
We wouldn't take old, nasty, dirty oil from a car and change it out to your new car.
Just like I hope we would have enough sense and forethought to never take old, depleted, nasty dino or any other infected water and start a new tank with it.
But using water from your super healthy thriving tank your wanting to upgrade? Why not? People run reefs and haven't done water changes in ages and your literally putting old tank in new tank.
In that instance I'd use every drop and plan to use every drop filtered through a 5 micron sock on my next upgrade
I feel the chances of experiencing any kind of bad bacterial blooms in the new tanks water column are slim to none.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I apologize I didn't mean to get you all fired up. I definetely respect your opinion and not going to say your wrong for feeling the way you do.
All im saying is the old myth about using old tank water has been inexplicably debunked and there's tons of tank transfer, when done right, never actually experience losses at all. In fact it's the exact opposite in my experience.

I never said not to use old tank water though... I actually said the opposite. My only caution - not even directed toward the OP who already stated they are transferring established rock to the new tank - was not to rely ONLY on water from a mature tank to instantly cycle a new one.

(See post #38... I was replying to someone who said NOT to use any old water... Maybe he's the one you meant to direct your link to?)

 

[LRT]

I never said not to use old tank water though... I actually said the opposite. My only caution - not even directed toward the OP who already stated they are transferring established rock to the new tank - was not to rely ONLY on water from a mature tank to instantly cycle a new one.

Ok I got you and wasn't trying to say you were saying anything you weren't
All im saying is if that's the only means you have then I say by all means use it! Some folks have with great success

 

[Dburr1014]

I would absolutely use old water. The fish/coral have been living in it.
Why would you throw that away and "try" to match every parameter in the new water? Seems like a lot of work to me. IMO, you would most likely have losses that way.
I myself have done many transfers and I can't remember Any losses using old water.

 

[BaliReefBox]

If you get NSW and use it, is it classified as old water or new? I reckon its full of gunk that is both good and bad. Though IMO it is still the best

 

[brandon429]

the reason we were told by bottle bac sellers that reef water has no cycling bac to share is so we buy what's missing


that was told to us from a podium at MACNA/the youtube video everyone references for cycling help says exactly that.

so I can't really fault anyone for relaying the claim that reef water has no cycling bacteria to share, that its useless for cycling.

but the truth is, reef tanks are high shear environments. little flecks of scum, life bits, rafts, flotsam, planktors, float around and on each dot we can see is a million nitrifying bacteria from different clades we can't see.

while it's technically true nitrifiers dont release and swim through the water very efficiently, this was seized upon as the sales ploy, raft distribution which 100% makes reef tank water like bottle bacteria was conveniently omitted, for charge


here's a thread where we upcycle a complete dry rock dry sand 200 gallon reef system solely off old tank water in 20 days. no food added, no bottle bac, only tank water swirling with all its rafts hitching over.

Connecting Established Reef To New Tank

EDIT: In conclusion, if using the method I did - connecting an established reef to a new system with dry rock (clean), I recommend the following: 1. Dose your new tank prior to connecting to your old tank with NO3 and PO4 enough to raise to your established tank levels. 2. Take your skimmer...

www.reef2reef.com

@Hurricane Aquatics

do you sell bottled bacteria


the accurate way to sell it is that its quicker than waiting 20 days, but not that reef water can't cycle a big reef free of charge, it sure does.

I want a new macna talk update about cycling.

 

[X-37B]

This hobby is so full of incorrect information and its almost laughable if it wasnt for the creatures we keep.
Been doing this for 30+ years and it never ceases to amaze me the amount of disinformation that people believe.
Use of current tank water will not hurt your system in any way when starting up a new system I have done it to many times to remember.
Anyway this is like a few current highly known coral grower/sellers who say to keep your tank at NSW alk levels and then they spew out that ocean alk is 8-9dkh. It is laughable but tarnishes new reefers with incorrect info.
Average ocean alk is 6.5.

 

[brandon429]

Bailey for your original question

the best method is this

do not buy bottled bacteria you are moving over rocks that are just fine as-is


rinse your new sand before use so that it does not cloud up for days on end, simply make it cloud free by rinse then set into the new tank. fill with clean new water

don't assume your sand is rinsed clear, put a handful when you're ready to verify into a big glass pitcher and add water roughly, if it clouds when held to light, rinse two hours more on the main pile. pass an assessment test before moving on in the new tank.

move your rocks ONLY over not any portion of old sand

then move your animals, you just skip cycled, it's not a mini or partial or needs 10 days cycle, it's a skip cycle because translocating live rock from one tank to another only with extra dilution doesn't harm your bacteria.

this is a testless skip cycle tank transfer, which is all pages here:

Official Sand Rinse and Tank Transfer thread

If you are reading this thread to cure a tank invasion from a link I sent you, we do not need to identify your type of invasion here we do not need you to test anything at anytime regarding nitrate, phosphate etc Above all, we do not need to see a microscope slide picture of your invasion at...

www.reef2reef.com

from that thread-
-we never use bottle bac
-we never use ammonia testing
-we always accomplish an instant skip cycle
-everyone is happy.
-this is what reef tank conventions do to align 200 reefs all on a given start date, with no cycles
-nobody moves a handful or a teaspoon of old sand
-100% of examples there are tap water rinsed new sandbeds. there is not one post in the thread where the new sand wasn't rinsed to cloudless perfection, it's what we do.


the main purpose of that thread is to show how badly we don't need to be buying bottle bac for common tank jobs though the training has us thinking we should, just for peace of mind. that cleaning or moving a reef might leave us short on bacteria...We show in that thread, following the rules is peace of mind/no purchase needed. it's literally an anti-bottle bac thread.

*I love bottle bac. everday I defend it in false stuck cycle posts lol.

there's a time and a place for it is the key (bottle bac is indicated in dry startups where they don't want to wait a month for free bacteria)

we're sold that it's place is everytime tank work is being done, and above is one place in the universe where bottle bac is not welcome, we need safe zones from it or we'll be swept into the purchase void to avoid cycle scariness.

 

[landlubber]

Marco is not concrete... Life Rock is.

my bad i guess... regardless, what i'm really getting at is some rock is dirtier than others and it should be pressure washed if its dusty or filled with organics.

 

[brandon429]

landlubber

agreed, flush out any pent-up organics that reduce surface area by plugging up channels and smoothing out otherwise very pointy surfaces. we have some rogues in the thread above who pressure washed them in tap water lol, the whole scape, and still no recycle. Id recommend a saltwater pressure wash tho that even feels weird to me. Jedireefer thoroughly investigated tap rinsing of rocks by doing it more than once in his tank setups, shows amazing ability these adhered bacteria have. it shows why simply moving over rocks was never going to cause any type of cycle, it takes abnormal actions to make cycled rocks stop being cycled.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I apologize I didn't mean to get you all fired up. I definetely respect your opinion and not going to say your wrong for feeling the way you do.
All im saying is the old myth about using old tank water has been inexplicably debunked and there's tons of tank transfer, when done right, never actually experience losses at all. In fact it's the exact opposite in my experience.

I still don't know why you targeted me personally with your post... I wasn't the one telling people to never use old water.

 

[LRT]

I still don't know why you targeted me personally with your post... I wasn't the one telling people to never use old water.

I apologize Erin. All I did was simply point out a post on a link to a different thread that offered tons of perspective on the particular subject that was being discussed at the time. Old water usage during cycling. My only target is to make sure folks never read this thread and walk away with bad information and was never intended to target anyone in particular