Best course of action to save last few fish, fish are dying every few hours!

[saulgoodmannnn]

In the last few days I have had my fish population die off one by one like clockwork. I went to my LFS and asked some questions and bought some stuff (which is a sponsored retailer on here that sells very nice corals so I believed their advice with no reason to doubt it).

Here’s some background on the tank. It’s been up and running for years I bought an established tank that had been running Coral Pro Salt and dosing ESV Ionic B 2 part. He would do WC once every 2-3 weeks he said. It was a JBJ 45 using socks with some Chemipure in one of the socks.
That tank ended up leaking in the middle of April and I had to run out and buy a Tidal 75 HOB and 40B from Petco in a hurry to save my little buddies. I have a HOB skimmer running with Matrix, Purigen, Carbon & PhosBond. I have bubble algae, and I think cyano? I’m not sure this is my first tank so issues identifying green and purple looking bacteria that’s on LR that’s covered with Coraline that hasn’t been moved in years. He never gravel vacced so when I had to move my rocks and sand over to my new tank I had a sand storm for 3 days before everything finally settled.

now to the present -

I had purchased a big box of Red Sea Salt before marine depot was bought out and when I purchased my tank second hand the guy was using Red Sea Coral Pro, I have been doing 10% WCs with the remaining Coral Pro Salt I had from him and just a few days ago I ran out. I didn’t realize until I ran out that I had the other salt that runs lower Alk calc mag etc.

So I asked if I should purchase more Coral Pro Salt and slowly mix that with Sea Salt over a course of 4 WCs to change salts over? The person who was 10-15 mins away from getting out of work said “no you don’t need to just do small WCs with the salt you have and you’ll be fine” I explained my parameters and my concerns. Here’s what my parameters were with lights off 2-3am 3 days ago (I decided to order some Copepods from Algae Barn for my Mandarin)

Phosphate	.34
Nitrate	17.1
pH (HI98107 tester)	7.9
Temp	77.4 - Hannah
Mag	1425
Salinity	1.0248
Alk	10.2
Calc	448

I explained I was concerned about my high Nitrates and Phosphates. I have a LPS dominated tank with only a plating montipora. They said phosphates are high and nitrates are fine they have a tank that stays at 30 one fish only tank that’s 10 years old that stays at 90 apparently.

They said use some activated carbon and add phosbon. (I told them my tank has been smelling recently like someone’s house that has a bunch of cats and dogs that never cleans).


I did a 1.5 gallon water change with Red Sea Salt mixed to 1.0248 to match my tank using a Tropic Marin HydrometerI rinsed the carbon and phosbond for probably 30 minutes not kidding under RO water. I only had one mesh bad so I put the phosbond in one end zip tied it and put the carbon in the other and zip tied the end.

After I placed the carbon and PhosBond in my filter I saw carbon dust shoot out and my tank turned a tint of black. Starting to realize maybe I used too fine of carbon for that bag? Didn’t rinse good enough? But how I sat over that sink gently rinsing that bag while listening to the 52 weeks of reefing Carbon & GFO mistakes?? How ironic. I noticed some white spots on my Flame Angel at this point

The following morning my tank was the same kind of tint from the carbon it cleared very slightly but the smell wasn’t as bad, then I checked my parameters 24 hours after using PhosBond

Nitrate	14.7
Phos	.27
Salinity	1.0248
pH	7.8
Calc	440
Alk	10.0
Temp	77.2 Hannah
Mag	1300

My Magnesium dropped like crazy one of the concerns I had from switching salts I only dose 2 part because I used to only do WCs once a month bc I was lazy and hated mixing Red Seas salt that needs to be used so dang quickly and doesn’t store for ****.

This is when my fish started dying.

It was this day my Mandarin was found stiff. One of my Evansi Anthias was hiding when I fed the tank which is unusual. I soaked my food in Garlic Gaurd. After a few minutes he came out and was eating then I found him dead 1 hour later.

what the heck??

I ran back to the store asked what I zhou do treat with and they said use Cupramine, and gave me a bottle of Cloram-X. I don’t have a QT setup and established so this is what I’ve been doing for the last 24 hours or so…

I bought a couple of tanks just to have them incase 2- 20 longs, 2- 10 gallons. Grabbed some sponge filters and power head that you can attach the filters to. I made 20 gallons of salt last night mixed it and warmed it.

While I was out my other Evansi died. I took some photos to see if anything visual aids to what’s wrong if it could be something other than Ich?

the white light is my flash.
Then I noticed my flame angel laying under some rocks looking very stiff, I grabbed him put him in a container and put an air stone in the container and dripped water as if I was doing a drip acclimation. I had kept the water heated but didn’t have a power head or anything in that water in a covered 10G that I used to make my small batch of water for my previous 1.5G WC.

He started breathing better, I tested the water in my 10G storage tank temp matched, Alk was within range of DT as was Calc. Phos measured 0.01 with a Hannah LR. pH 8.2. After dripping water into his container for an hour I picked him up slowly put him in the container and he swam a little. I think he saw his reflection and freaked out he swam with a ton of energy then died . I know all this stress is horrible for them and I just don’t know what the heck to do. I have a clown and a lawn mower blenny left, I also have a Damsel.

I have some little sponge filters also which I could put some of my established media in?

And I have these

So what the heck should I do my blenny is looking like he’s next his eyes are turning white and he isn’t eating. Should I just throw my new water in a new tank with some Cupramine?? I have these things readily available-

MetroPlex
Prime
Stability
Cloram-X
Garlic Gaurd
Fritz Turbo Start ( new and refrigerated)
Nitro cycle from Algae Barn

I was going to try to catch him and then put him in a bucket with an air stone and then slowly acclimate him to the 20L QT tank and put some matrix from my HOB inside the bottom of one of those smaller sponge filters that I can take apart. should I do this? Or should I do a 50% WC on the DT?

While writing this my gf found the Damsel dead.

it’s gills look red and he lost all his color within 12 hours.
This is absolutely crushing me. The Blenny had energy I tried to net him and he swam off but his eyes are very cloudy and the Clownfish looks like he’s absolutely loving life.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Your fish are dying from ich. Get the remaining ones out, give them a freshwater dip to give them relief from the parasite and then do a Copper Power treatment in a seperate QT tank. Leave your display fallow for at least 72 days.

Hopefully you can save the remaining.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

Also could possibly be velvet, but looks more like ich. Same treatment either way.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Its often hard to telll anything with dead carcasses but your flame in one pic did show velvet which is a quick and often silent killer. Ill explain velvet and let me know if you noticed any of the signs listed.
If you have noticed, ultimately, you may have to allow tank to sit fishless (fallow0 for 45-60 days to allow parasites to go through their cycles and die off.
With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium.

 

[Sharkbait19]

#fishmedic
I’m seeing velvet, but late stage ich is also very possible.
Get remaining fish into qt and treat with copper ASAP.
Cupramine should be dosed at 0.5 ppm.
Fw dip during transfer will help alleviate symptoms and buy some time.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Your fish have velvet, treat them now. That is not ich, way too many white spots. Test your ammonia too. Velvet kills fast, you need to act.

 

[threebuoys]

Your problem is clearly driven by the parasites. Don't worry about the water parameters at the moment. They are ok for fish and would affect your corals more.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Here’s some background on the tank. It’s been up and running for years I bought an established tank that had been running Coral Pro Salt and dosing ESV Ionic B 2 part.

How long ago did you set up the 40 breeder? It sounds like you used the old sand without rinsing it first(?). If this is the case, you likely released a ton of built up crud into the water which could have easily produced an ammonia spike, among other things. Did you test this tank (once you added the sand ) for ammonia? While using the live rock would definitely have provided a biofilter, if the bioload was increased (by using the old sand), it very well might not have had a large enough bacterial population to handle that.


I hope you are able to save the fish... best of luck

Edited for corrections

 

[saulgoodmannnn]

#fishmedic
I’m seeing velvet, but late stage ich is also very possible.
Get remaining fish into qt and treat with copper ASAP.
Cupramine should be dosed at 0.5 ppm.
Fw dip during transfer will help alleviate symptoms and buy some time.

How long should I dip for? Any particular temp I should have the FW at for the dip???

 

[ZombieEngineer]

How long should I dip for? Any particular temp I should have the FW at for the dip???

Use alkalinity supplement to match pH to the tank as closely as possible. Temp must match your display so float the container in your display for min 15 minutes.

Leave the fish in for 10-15 minutes. If they lay down and look like they are playing dead, that is normal. If they start flailing and breathing rapidly, stop the dio and get them back into saltwater.

 

[ZombieEngineer]

If you don't have alkalinity supplement you can use baking soda.

 

[saulgoodmannnn]

How long ago did YOU set up this tank?
I understand the person you bought it from had a stable system, but it's extremely important to note that, once you dismantled and moved the tank, the "It's been up and running for years" element is no longer true. It sounds like you used the old sand without rinsing it first(?). If this is the case, you likely released a ton of built up crud into the water which could have easily produced an ammonia spike, among other things. Did you test this tank (once you set it back up) for ammonia? While using the live rock would definitely have provided a biofilter, if the bioload was increased (by using the old sand), it very well might not have had a large enough bacterial population to handle that.

If I missed something in your original post that answers my questions, I apologize... I did not see anything that mentioned it.

I hope you are able to save the fish... best of luck

This tank was setup after I dismantled and kept LR wet…stuff you would do If you were moving your tank basically from one house to the next over a distance that lasted for about an hour car ride. I setup everything immediately and didn’t lose any fish or corals. This was done on 10/31/2021. I know it’s not ammonia and the tank didn’t crash bc I test religiously with Hannah’s for everything besides Ammonia which I use APIs only for ammonia tests which I don’t do now since I’m monitoring nitrates with Hannah HR. I did use a seachem ammonia checker when I first set it up and to monitor incase I did crash it. I didn’t rinse the old sand, I’ve never heard of doing that when changing tanks, was I supposed to? He purchased one of those dealios where you order sand and LR from the ocean with a CUC and everything and pick it up from the airport he said.

 

[saulgoodmannnn]

If you don't have alkalinity supplement you can use baking soda.

So for Alk supplements I have EAV Ionic B I can dose the FW with that directly to boost the pH. I’m concerned the blenny is a powerful jumper he can easily jump out of a bucket for the dip. Can I use the same dip for all the fish or get rid of the FW after each fish has been dipped?

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

This tank was setup after I dismantled and kept LR wet…stuff you would do If you were moving your tank basically from one house to the next over a distance that lasted for about an hour car ride. I setup everything immediately and didn’t lose any fish or corals. This was done on 10/31/2021. I know it’s not ammonia and the tank didn’t crash bc I test religiously with Hannah’s for everything besides Ammonia which I use APIs onto for ammonia tests. I did use a seachem ammonia checker when I first set it up and to monitor incase I did crash it. I didn’t rinse the old sand, I’ve never heard of doing that when changing tanks, was I supposed to? He purchased one of those dealios where you order sand and LR from the ocean with a CUC and everything and pick it up from the airport he said.

I re-read your original post after I typed my message and edited it, as I didn't realize you had set up the 40 breeder. How long ago did you add the sand to the 40B? If it's been a while and, as you said, you monitored the ammonia, etc, then my suggestion is clearly not applicable.
I'm sorry if I confused things.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

This tank was setup after I dismantled and kept LR wet…stuff you would do If you were moving your tank basically from one house to the next over a distance that lasted for about an hour car ride. I setup everything immediately and didn’t lose any fish or corals. This was done on 10/31/2021. I know it’s not ammonia and the tank didn’t crash bc I test religiously with Hannah’s for everything besides Ammonia which I use APIs only for ammonia tests which I don’t do now since I’m monitoring nitrates with Hannah HR. I did use a seachem ammonia checker when I first set it up and to monitor incase I did crash it. I didn’t rinse the old sand, I’ve never heard of doing that when changing tanks, was I supposed to? He purchased one of those dealios where you order sand and LR from the ocean with a CUC and everything and pick it up from the airport he said.

Rinsing the sand would save potentially releasing a ton of ammonia and nitrate. If you don't have an ammonia or nitrate issue, it is fine.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

Use alkalinity supplement to match pH to the tank as closely as possible. Temp must match your display so float the container in your display for min 15 minutes.

Leave the fish in for 10-15 minutes. If they lay down and look like they are playing dead, that is normal. If they start flailing and breathing rapidly, stop the dio and get them back into saltwater.

Might seem obvious but make sure you declorinate the freshwater.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

So for Alk supplements I have EAV Ionic B I can dose the FW with that directly to boost the pH. I’m concerned the blenny is a powerful jumper he can easily jump out of a bucket for the dip. Can I use the same dip for all the fish or get rid of the FW after each fish has been dipped?

Assuming the temperature has not dropped, I don't see why you couldn't use the same dip.

 

[saulgoodmannnn]

Its often hard to telll anything with dead carcasses but your flame in one pic did show velvet which is a quick and often silent killer. Ill explain velvet and let me know if you noticed any of the signs listed.
If you have noticed, ultimately, you may have to allow tank to sit fishless (fallow0 for 45-60 days to allow parasites to go through their cycles and die off.
With ich, you can generally count the dots whereas with velvet, it represents the solar system as in the case of your tang. velvet spots on the fish that are much finer than the spots seen in Ich making it harder to catch until in cases too late to treat.
Some behaviors associated with a fish with velvet are :
- Scratching body against hard objects
- Fish is lethargic
- Loss of appetite and weight loss
- Rapid, labored breathing
- Fins clamped against the body
- rapid breathing and mucus around the gills

Fish with velvet will typically stay at the surface of the water, or remain in a position where a steady flow of water is present in the aquarium. As the disease progresses outwards from the gills, the cysts then become visible on the fins and body. Although these cysts may appear as tiny white dots the size of a grain of salt, like the first sign of Saltwater Ich or White Spot Disease, what sets Oodinium apart from other types of ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with vigorous aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium.

I did notice my Blenny has been hanging out on my MP10. Wrapping his body around the outer edge as if he likes the sucking feeling lol labored breathing across the tank with all fish and odd behavior such as leaving their “safe spaces” and wandering into other fishes territories and fish which are normally very aggressive of their territory don’t care.
Should I do anything as far as my corals are concerned to prevent loss? I have a RBTA that shrunk up after the initial WC, the day before he was bigger than I’ve ever seen him and now he’s all ballooned up again but he has been moving around a lot the last week or so. Moving to the top of the water line and getting closer to my hammer. I also have a Derasa clam, tube coral, gonipora, bunch of mushrooms Yuma and richordias

 

[saulgoodmannnn]

I re-read your original post after I typed my message and edited it, as I didn't realize you had set up the 40 breeder. How long ago did you add the sand to the 40B? If it's been a while and, as you said, you monitored the ammonia, etc, then my suggestion is clearly not applicable.
I'm sorry if I confused things.

Oh my bad I thought you meant the old JBJ that leaked. The 40B was setup mid April, I used all the sand from the JBJ and I also added some new sand that was caribsea wet sand. I added like 10 cups worth hardly 1/4 of the bag for my tube coral.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I did notice my Blenny has been hanging out on my MP10. Wrapping his body around the outer edge as if he likes the sucking feeling lol labored breathing across the tank with all fish and odd behavior such as leaving their “safe spaces” and wandering into other fishes territories and fish which are normally very aggressive of their territory don’t care.
Should I do anything as far as my corals are concerned to prevent loss? I have a RBTA that shrunk up after the initial WC, the day before he was bigger than I’ve ever seen him and now he’s all ballooned up again but he has been moving around a lot the last week or so. Moving to the top of the water line and getting closer to my hammer. I also have a Derasa clam, tube coral, gonipora, bunch of mushrooms Yuma and richordias

Velvet will not affect your corals at all. Just make sure you dose the copper in a separate tank.