YOYOYOReefer
Valuable Member
Cool device Dennis. I’ve got an old bill wann ca reactor but I converted it when the electronics went bad. wish I would have known about your device.
Automatic Calcium Reactor Controller (ACR)
- Thread starter Dennis Cartier
- Start date
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gdemos
Active Member
Can’t blow through check valves, carbon doser one or several of the Amazon brand, using 1/4” short line to blow doesn’t produce any bubbles. And I’m a fit non-smoker 
Carbon doser regulator was not cheap $500. Not sure how to trouble shoot it other than trying a different regulator but then how do I involve the solenoid setup?
Carbon doser regulator was not cheap $500. Not sure how to trouble shoot it other than trying a different regulator but then how do I involve the solenoid setup?
YOYOYOReefer
Valuable Member
will yours run with just one check valve? If not replace the check valve.
Co2 art or green leaf aquariums are decent enough regulators for the price/ application. Those come with the solenoid. I use mostly Harris and victor regulators for my business which is not aquarium related, but they are overkill for this application but if you can find locally used would highly recommended To search for
Co2 art or green leaf aquariums are decent enough regulators for the price/ application. Those come with the solenoid. I use mostly Harris and victor regulators for my business which is not aquarium related, but they are overkill for this application but if you can find locally used would highly recommended To search for
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
If you ever need to replace the regulator, you can simply use screw the Carbon Doser box, and thread it in to a different regulator's output.Can’t blow through check valves, carbon doser one or several of the Amazon brand, using 1/4” short line to blow doesn’t produce any bubbles. And I’m a fit non-smoker
Carbon doser regulator was not cheap $500. Not sure how to trouble shoot it other than trying a different regulator but then how do I involve the solenoid setup?
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
Ok, I would suggest running with just the one check valve to get back up and running. Then you can order a new check valve to swap in. I suggest the Dennerle ones.
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
I am running 2, two stage, Harris regulators. I love the Harris regulators. I recently had my main CO2 tank run all the way down to 13 psi, with not a single hiccup. Then my auto tank switcher, toggled the backup tank in and sounded an alarm to let me know to refill the main tank.
YOYOYOReefer
Valuable Member
ya they are the cats meow,,, we use one on our gc/ms.
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
Perfect! Something must be causing it to stick. Glad it is working now.
Oops, I just noticed I had directed you to, and linked the build thread, inside the build thread, lol.
gdemos
Active Member
I’ve been running for a full day on a single check valve (cheapo brand) and by way of pH probe data and drop of pH I was clearly getting co2 to reactor. For heck of it I went to swap out cheapo with original carbon doser valve and got blasted with water on the reactor side. My run from co2 tank to reactor is about 8’ bothe co2 tank and reactor sit on the floor. I was surprised to see this much pressurized water here.
Thoughts?
gdemos
Active Member
Suppose I should attempt to slow the manifold feed significantly to closer match the master flex effluent rate? I don’t have a gauge on manifold
Feed just a simple 1/4” line with John guest valve. Suppose I could turn that down a bit? Is it the feed pressure causing issue?
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
Sounds normal to me. If the pH inside the reactor has been dropping and your controller has been activating your solenoid (Carbon Doser) to add more CO2 periodically, that sounds exactly the way a legacy style CaRx should operate. The blast of water coming out of the effluent tube when you were swapping the check valve would be the pressure being applied from your feed pump. Again, I don't see this as an issue, it will make it a bit harder for your check valve to open, but should not pose any serious drawback (assuming your check valve is working).
I would not bother, adjusting it. I think it is fine.
While thinking about the answer here, I realized that you probably will not see any bubbles in your ACR, or very rarely as you may not have any excess CO2 about when you reach your targeted pH (6.5) for the CaRx. When operated in saturation mode, the ACR will have a pH below 6.0, and you are cutting off CO2 well before that range. So odds are the injected CO2 will get absorbed pretty quickly and will not be in gas form to be able to make bubbles by way of the venturi for long.
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
For anyone looking to build one of these, the hardest to find part, the 3 way valve used for auto venting, a listing has just appeared on Ebay with 4 of them available.
648T032 3-way valve
648T032 3-way valve
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
This is a bit off topic, but related nonetheless. I hope you find it interesting.
I use a drip watering system from Holland called Blumat. They are these neat little 'carrots' that have a terracotta spike, and a plastic upper portion that contains a diaphragm. The way they work is that there is a dial on top that that pinches a small 3 mm silicone hose against the diaphragm. Lastly the plastic body unscrews and you fill the carrot with water. It works using surface tension. As the soil drys out, the surface tension trying to suck water out through the terracotta portion causes the diaphragm to apply less pressure on the pinched hose, allowing water to seep past the pinch point. As the soil becomes wetter, the surface tension rises, and the diaphragm again pinches off the water flow (for this pressure setting).
I have used these for 15 years or so, and for the most part they work extremely well. I even used these indoors over winter, which is a no no according to Blumat. I can kind of see why they recommend against it. I did have leaks over the winter and though I had setup leak sensors and an automatic ball valve to protect against floods, the leaks were slow enough that they made a mess and were almost impossible to prevent.
So when I moved all my plants outside this spring, I decided to revert back to using mainly Blumat fittings. Their fittings are all metric, are expensive, and only use barbs fittings. The system uses a screw on pressure regulator that is supposed to drop the water pressure to 1 bar.
Here is were things started to go astray. Within the first week of putting the plants outside, hooked up to the Blumat drippers, I started having connections blow off the barbs. Sometimes it would be a 3 mm hose, sometimes an 8 mm hose. I would typically notice a puddle on the interlock and then find a detached hose spraying a stream of water. I would replace the hose, but it kept happening. When it happened 4 times in 1 day I came to the conclusion that different approach was needed.
In the past, I had solved the issue by buying a new pressure regulator, but that gets expensive, and the high pressure of my house water (90 psi) seemed to tear through them. I also want to setup another one of these systems at our RV, and the limited water supply we have there, means that a popped off hose could drain a large part of the water supply quickly before being noticed.
What I needed was away to limit the pressure, be able to detect a blown off hose, and shut the water flow down in such a case.
Other than the fact we are working with water instead of gas, the requirements are very similar to what my controller designs do for the ACR. Except we would control a water valve instead of a Clippard solenoid.
So that is what I did. I used an IFM 5204 that I had on hand from early controller designs, and paired it with a 24VDC water valve from Amazon. I used a DIN relay to drive everything as the current required for the valve was above the output rating of the IFM output.
I also added a multi-function delay timer. The delay timer measures the time the valve is energized for, and shuts the water valve down and sounds a buzzer if the selected time is exceeded. So if a hose pops off the pressure never reaches the pressure need to shutdown the IFM, and the delay timer reaches it's max time and goes into a failure mode (water valve off, buzzer on). I also added an override switch to force the water valve on, which is needed for setting the pressures on the drippers, and to be a reset when a blown off hose/major leak is repaired.
Here is a bad picture of the completed controller installed in my utility room.
The drip irrigation controller, what I am calling it, works great. During the day when the plants are thirsty, it toggles on once a minute or so, and at night it slows to a crawl. Exactly as I would expect it to do.
So this fall, I plan to use this indoors with the Blumat fittings, which should be less leaky, and have the fail safe for hoses that blow off (which is the main threat with the Blumat fittings).
I use a drip watering system from Holland called Blumat. They are these neat little 'carrots' that have a terracotta spike, and a plastic upper portion that contains a diaphragm. The way they work is that there is a dial on top that that pinches a small 3 mm silicone hose against the diaphragm. Lastly the plastic body unscrews and you fill the carrot with water. It works using surface tension. As the soil drys out, the surface tension trying to suck water out through the terracotta portion causes the diaphragm to apply less pressure on the pinched hose, allowing water to seep past the pinch point. As the soil becomes wetter, the surface tension rises, and the diaphragm again pinches off the water flow (for this pressure setting).
I have used these for 15 years or so, and for the most part they work extremely well. I even used these indoors over winter, which is a no no according to Blumat. I can kind of see why they recommend against it. I did have leaks over the winter and though I had setup leak sensors and an automatic ball valve to protect against floods, the leaks were slow enough that they made a mess and were almost impossible to prevent.
So when I moved all my plants outside this spring, I decided to revert back to using mainly Blumat fittings. Their fittings are all metric, are expensive, and only use barbs fittings. The system uses a screw on pressure regulator that is supposed to drop the water pressure to 1 bar.
Here is were things started to go astray. Within the first week of putting the plants outside, hooked up to the Blumat drippers, I started having connections blow off the barbs. Sometimes it would be a 3 mm hose, sometimes an 8 mm hose. I would typically notice a puddle on the interlock and then find a detached hose spraying a stream of water. I would replace the hose, but it kept happening. When it happened 4 times in 1 day I came to the conclusion that different approach was needed.
In the past, I had solved the issue by buying a new pressure regulator, but that gets expensive, and the high pressure of my house water (90 psi) seemed to tear through them. I also want to setup another one of these systems at our RV, and the limited water supply we have there, means that a popped off hose could drain a large part of the water supply quickly before being noticed.
What I needed was away to limit the pressure, be able to detect a blown off hose, and shut the water flow down in such a case.
Other than the fact we are working with water instead of gas, the requirements are very similar to what my controller designs do for the ACR. Except we would control a water valve instead of a Clippard solenoid.
So that is what I did. I used an IFM 5204 that I had on hand from early controller designs, and paired it with a 24VDC water valve from Amazon. I used a DIN relay to drive everything as the current required for the valve was above the output rating of the IFM output.
I also added a multi-function delay timer. The delay timer measures the time the valve is energized for, and shuts the water valve down and sounds a buzzer if the selected time is exceeded. So if a hose pops off the pressure never reaches the pressure need to shutdown the IFM, and the delay timer reaches it's max time and goes into a failure mode (water valve off, buzzer on). I also added an override switch to force the water valve on, which is needed for setting the pressures on the drippers, and to be a reset when a blown off hose/major leak is repaired.
Here is a bad picture of the completed controller installed in my utility room.
The drip irrigation controller, what I am calling it, works great. During the day when the plants are thirsty, it toggles on once a minute or so, and at night it slows to a crawl. Exactly as I would expect it to do.
So this fall, I plan to use this indoors with the Blumat fittings, which should be less leaky, and have the fail safe for hoses that blow off (which is the main threat with the Blumat fittings).
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
For anyone planning on building a controller, there is an eBay vendor with NR 3 way valves for sale. He still has 2 left and has been willing to go as low as $65 when offered.
NRESEARCH #648T032 3-WAY ISOLATION VALVE (1/8” NPT, 24VDC, 30 PSI) L133 | eBay
3-WAY ISOLATION VALVE. Failure to adhere to this policy will result in cancellation of order.
www.ebay.com
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Dennis Cartier
Valuable Member
Ok, time for an errata. I need to highlight the connection method used for the IFM sensor (and it's importance).
When I first started using the IFM sensors, around the v2 era of controllers, I was under the belief that the sensors used a 1/4" NPT connection. For my first builds I used a 1/4" NPT nipple with the gauge guard side sealed with the o-ring and the IFM side sealed with teflon tape. This appeared to work fine at the time.
Later, when I was using a different IFM sensor model (PN7007) for the in-development v4 controller, I ran into some difficulties. At the time, I was thinking the cause of the problem was the model of gauge guard that I was using. I had switch to using the 'mini' gauge guards that are available for purchase new, and are reasonable affordable.
At the time, the IFM had installed, a PN7007 that I had purchased as NIB (New In Box) was dropping to negative values during the auto venting procedure. This was quite unexpected. While trying to diagnose the issue, I found that if I removed the IFM from the controller and left it powered up, it would slowly over time, creep back to a reading of 0 PSI.
What I hypothesized was happening was that CO2 was diffusing through the gauge guard membrane and pressurizing the IFM side. Of course this was completely wrong, lol. While posting about the issue on the forum, I had my first hint as to where I had went wrong. Someone pointed out that the IFM sensors use 1/4" G threads. Sadly, what should have been a eureka moment, didn't register with me, and it was not until months later while assisting a form member with a build (@Cali9dub), that they pointed out the existence of adapters that used 1/4" G thread. As it turns out, G thread is another name for BSP, which is a thread used widely everywhere except North America.
There is a handy adapter available from Amazon that has 1/4" NPT and G ends along with a flat for sealing the IFM using an o-ring that IFM sells in packages of 10. @Cali9dub was nice enough to send me some o-rings from the package he got from IFM.
Here is the adapter on amazon.
Here is what it looks like (hand model is @Cali9dub )
This issue came back on the radar because recently, my development v4 controller started showing the symptoms of going negative during the venting cycle. This is the same pattern that I had seen before, and concluded at the time, that the IFM sensor was faulty. This IFM was still using the incorrect method of using a 1/4 NPT nipple with teflon tape as the means of attaching the IFM sensor.
I decided to replace the adapter with the proper one with G threads on the IFM side, and use the IFM supplied o-ring for sealing. What I discovered while replacing it was that the adapter was almost certainly the cause of the current issue (going negative during venting) and most likely the cause of the issue with the original IFM that was replaced as faulty.
I found that the membrane in the gauge guard had been 'cupped' in towards the IFM. When I pressed on the membrane using the flat end of a toothpick, it popped back towards the non-IFM side. This discovery pointed me to the actual cause of the issue all along.
OK, here is what was happening. When sealed with the incorrect type of adapter, a nipple using NPT threads instead of BSP, though the seal was tight enough to prevent the filling liquid from leaking, in this case RODI, it was not tight enough to prevent water vapour from escaping. So over time the fill was slowly depleting and the membrane in the guard was being stretched by the constant pressure being applied on the wet (ACR) side with a lack of filling liquid on the IFM side. That is why when diagnosing the original problem (the IFM going negative), it would slowly creep back to a reading of 0 PSI over time as the IFM side slowly sucked in air through the non sealed enough NPT threads. So the 'faulty' IFM sensor is almost certainly fine, and it was just down to a bad seal.
So how did I get this so wrong? Well as it turns out, the IFM sensors come in both 1/4" G threads and 1/4" NPT threads. I have sensors using both thread types in my collection of IFM's. The original ones I used were in fact 1/4" NPT models and only the later ones that I sourced for the v4 builds use 1/4" G threads. It would appear that the units intended for the North American markets used NPT threads, while those coming from Europe used G threads.
The thread type for the port is displayed on the label of the IFM. So make sure to check to see what thread type you have for any purchased sensors.
When I first started using the IFM sensors, around the v2 era of controllers, I was under the belief that the sensors used a 1/4" NPT connection. For my first builds I used a 1/4" NPT nipple with the gauge guard side sealed with the o-ring and the IFM side sealed with teflon tape. This appeared to work fine at the time.
Later, when I was using a different IFM sensor model (PN7007) for the in-development v4 controller, I ran into some difficulties. At the time, I was thinking the cause of the problem was the model of gauge guard that I was using. I had switch to using the 'mini' gauge guards that are available for purchase new, and are reasonable affordable.
At the time, the IFM had installed, a PN7007 that I had purchased as NIB (New In Box) was dropping to negative values during the auto venting procedure. This was quite unexpected. While trying to diagnose the issue, I found that if I removed the IFM from the controller and left it powered up, it would slowly over time, creep back to a reading of 0 PSI.
What I hypothesized was happening was that CO2 was diffusing through the gauge guard membrane and pressurizing the IFM side. Of course this was completely wrong, lol. While posting about the issue on the forum, I had my first hint as to where I had went wrong. Someone pointed out that the IFM sensors use 1/4" G threads. Sadly, what should have been a eureka moment, didn't register with me, and it was not until months later while assisting a form member with a build (@Cali9dub), that they pointed out the existence of adapters that used 1/4" G thread. As it turns out, G thread is another name for BSP, which is a thread used widely everywhere except North America.
There is a handy adapter available from Amazon that has 1/4" NPT and G ends along with a flat for sealing the IFM using an o-ring that IFM sells in packages of 10. @Cali9dub was nice enough to send me some o-rings from the package he got from IFM.
Here is the adapter on amazon.
Amazon.com
a.co
Here is what it looks like (hand model is @Cali9dub
)
This issue came back on the radar because recently, my development v4 controller started showing the symptoms of going negative during the venting cycle. This is the same pattern that I had seen before, and concluded at the time, that the IFM sensor was faulty. This IFM was still using the incorrect method of using a 1/4 NPT nipple with teflon tape as the means of attaching the IFM sensor.
I decided to replace the adapter with the proper one with G threads on the IFM side, and use the IFM supplied o-ring for sealing. What I discovered while replacing it was that the adapter was almost certainly the cause of the current issue (going negative during venting) and most likely the cause of the issue with the original IFM that was replaced as faulty.
I found that the membrane in the gauge guard had been 'cupped' in towards the IFM. When I pressed on the membrane using the flat end of a toothpick, it popped back towards the non-IFM side. This discovery pointed me to the actual cause of the issue all along.
OK, here is what was happening. When sealed with the incorrect type of adapter, a nipple using NPT threads instead of BSP, though the seal was tight enough to prevent the filling liquid from leaking, in this case RODI, it was not tight enough to prevent water vapour from escaping. So over time the fill was slowly depleting and the membrane in the guard was being stretched by the constant pressure being applied on the wet (ACR) side with a lack of filling liquid on the IFM side. That is why when diagnosing the original problem (the IFM going negative), it would slowly creep back to a reading of 0 PSI over time as the IFM side slowly sucked in air through the non sealed enough NPT threads. So the 'faulty' IFM sensor is almost certainly fine, and it was just down to a bad seal.
So how did I get this so wrong? Well as it turns out, the IFM sensors come in both 1/4" G threads and 1/4" NPT threads. I have sensors using both thread types in my collection of IFM's. The original ones I used were in fact 1/4" NPT models and only the later ones that I sourced for the v4 builds use 1/4" G threads. It would appear that the units intended for the North American markets used NPT threads, while those coming from Europe used G threads.
The thread type for the port is displayed on the label of the IFM. So make sure to check to see what thread type you have for any purchased sensors.
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