Are there any must-have gadgets for power outages in 2024?

[Sdbuehler1]

I'm in the process of getting solar for our new home.... I'm sorta on the fence on whether or not we want to get batteries as well..... just so dang expensive, but I also love the idea of not worrying about outages/hurricanes as much.

We also have a propane tank and no city gas, so I get nervous about relying on a generac that may only last a couple of days, when I can potentially just add a battery and forget about it.

Their proposed battery is the Enphase 5P (5kWh capacity). Our solar system size would be 13.2kW.

Would this thing keep the tank vitals running for days?

I had a 16 kWh solar array installed on my house a year ago with 2 of the enphase IQ 10 batteries for a total of 20 kWh of battery backup. With all my major appliances turned off including hvac my power consumption is about 1 - 1.5 kWh which includes my two saltwater tanks. I could probably make it about 12 hours with no solar production which covers the scenario of a power outage happening at dusk and lasting until sunrise. With a 5p battery you would have to keep your total electrical usage below 0.5 kWh to make it through the night. It’s possible but you would have to run around shutting everything off in your house when the power goes out as the battery backup powers the whole house. You usually get 4 smart circuits that will auto shut off high loads like the hvac, oven, dryer etc. The rest you have to turn off yourself.

I am also running my tanks on a small UPS that can run the main return pump for about 2 hours. My apex controller is programmed to shut everything down but the return pump when there is a power loss. As you can see I am all about redundancy lol.

 

[Stevorino]

I had a 16 kWh solar array installed on my house a year ago with 2 of the enphase IQ 10 batteries for a total of 20 kWh of battery backup. With all my major appliances turned off including hvac my power consumption is about 1 - 1.5 kWh which includes my two saltwater tanks. I could probably make it about 12 hours with no solar production which covers the scenario of a power outage happening at dusk and lasting until sunrise. With a 5p battery you would have to keep your total electrical usage below 0.5 kWh to make it through the night. It’s possible but you would have to run around shutting everything off in your house when the power goes out as the battery backup powers the whole house. You usually get 4 smart circuits that will auto shut off high loads like the hvac, oven, dryer etc. The rest you have to turn off yourself.

I am also running my tanks on a small UPS that can run the main return pump for about 2 hours. My apex controller is programmed to shut everything down but the return pump when there is a power loss. As you can see I am all about redundancy lol.

This is so helpful - thank you!

How do you feel about the investment, in general? I'm leaning towards Solar, but not the batteries. I feel like I'd have to get up to your battery count to make it actually worthwhile.

 

[VintageReefer]

If you don’t have batteries the solar panels do not work during a power outage (I’m pretty sure)

 

[VintageReefer]

What Happens If You Have Solar And The Power Goes Out?

Typical home solar installations shut down during a blackout, but you can keep the lights on in 1 of 3 ways: a generator, battery, or a special solar inverter.

www.solarreviews.com

Correct. In a power outage you are not getting power from solar without battery system

 

[Sdbuehler1]

This is so helpful - thank you!

How do you feel about the investment, in general? I'm leaning towards Solar, but not the batteries. I feel like I'd have to get up to your battery count to make it actually worthwhile.

For me it was about the peace of mind. I’m a bit paranoid about the electrical grid in my town with everyone buying electric cars. That being said the tax incentive of 30% credit applies to both the solar panels and batteries so if for example you install a system for $50 k you would get a tax credit of $15 k next year on your taxes ( assuming you pay that much in federal taxes).

My electric bill is essentially $0 per month. My electric company offers a 1:1 net metering which means all the power I generate but don’t use gets credited towards the next months bill. I am also in an SREC program where I get a check for $40 for every 1000 kWH that my system generates. Overall I am very happy with my decision to go solar.

To confirm the question about what happens when the power goes out with no batteries - the electric company requires that your solar array automatically disconnects during a power outage so it isn’t sending power back to the grid while a utility crew may be working to restore power. The solar array will not generate any power during this time and you won’t receive any net metering either for that period.

 

[Reefering1]

Why does my generator shut the tank down if i try to plug my EB32 into the generator vs just the return pump?

Reread the thread and ust caught this question.. my 1st thought is to check the frequency(should be 60hz) and voltage(110-125v) of the generated electricity. Typical gas generator is just a gas engine spinning a electric motor to create electricity. The faster it spins the higher the hz. If voltage drops or hz gets too high sensitive electronics can shut down or be damaged. It's all about getting the engine speed tuned right. High enough of a idle that it doesn't stall when loaded (say the central a/c kicks on), but not so high that the hz gets above say 63hz when the tank is the only thing running. I accidently let mine hit 69hz and it damaged a ceiling fan and a powerhead. Inverters don't have this problem as they produce a clean sine waveform. But Inverters (generator or battery backup) are much more sensitive to being damaged by overload(often destroyed the 1st time overloaded). Gas generator will stall if overloaded but fire back up and still work. Hope this is helpful

 

[ChrisfromBrick]

That’s true but not what we are talking about. A portable gas generator that’s in the range you mentioned will not run for 13 days. The fuel tanks last 10-20 hours.

There’s no comparison between sealed lead acid batteries and lipo batteries for performance and lifespan. Look at the discharge curves for both

The point of this thread is automated cutover to alternative power in an outage, and something indoors. A portable gas generator won’t be a solution

The home generators and power walls brought up are viable options but significantly more expensive. But, an ideal solution

yes, they will run for as long as you can fill them with gas. What are. you talking about?

I understand the need to have instant power when one isn’t around but a gas genny will run for as long as you can fill it with gas and keep oil at a normal level.

 

[VintageReefer]

yes, they will run for as long as you can fill them with gas. What are. you talking about?

I understand the need to have instant power when one isn’t around but a gas genny will run for as long as you can fill it with gas and keep oil at a normal level.

I re-read and only thing I can think of is I got mixed up in the responses and thought he meant a home/house generator was running 13 days and I didn’t realize it was a portable one somehow

Yea they can be refueled and run continuously. I have one myself. But the op wanted automatic cutover and power for short outages and for it to be indoors so I suggested lithium battery power stations.

 

[mousehunter]

Lipo have a few advantages over lead acid. They can be discharged deeper without damage. They have a slower self discharge rate. They have better power density and are lighter (ok, those 2 are only marginally beneficial). They tend to have a longer lifespan - which is probably their best benefit.

In a perfect world, you would want a battery backup AND a generator. I guess some have systems that need the full capacity of a Honda generator - but most of the time, that will not be the case. A battery backup (battery powered generator) can work automatically. But when you do need a backup to last more than a few hours - no guarantee that the sun will be shinning. The Honda could be handy to recharge the battery powered generator.

I was not running a reef tank at the time, but I have gone through 3 day blackouts from 2 winter storms and a hurricane in the last few years. The winter storms did not give me much sunlight for 3 days, and the hurricane gave me rain for 4. Now in fairness, over most of the days we did have rolling blackouts - 15 minutes of power every 3 hours. Depending on load, hard to say if I could get enough charge in 15 minutes to keep power up for 3hrs.
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On the down side. Those Honda's need proper maintenance to work (mostly you need to drain the carbs after each use, and preferable drain the tanks as well). I have 2, I doubt I could start either of them at the moment. Hard to tell, I have not run them since they came back from the repair shop.

 

[Big E]

Lipo have a few advantages over lead acid. They can be discharged deeper without damage. They have a slower self discharge rate. They have better power density and are lighter (ok, those 2 are only marginally beneficial). They tend to have a longer lifespan - which is probably their best benefit.

In a perfect world, you would want a battery backup AND a generator. I guess some have systems that need the full capacity of a Honda generator - but most of the time, that will not be the case. A battery backup (battery powered generator) can work automatically. But when you do need a backup to last more than a few hours - no guarantee that the sun will be shinning. The Honda could be handy to recharge the battery powered generator.

I was not running a reef tank at the time, but I have gone through 3 day blackouts from 2 winter storms and a hurricane in the last few years. The winter storms did not give me much sunlight for 3 days, and the hurricane gave me rain for 4. Now in fairness, over most of the days we did have rolling blackouts - 15 minutes of power every 3 hours. Depending on load, hard to say if I could get enough charge in 15 minutes to keep power up for 3hrs.
---
On the down side. Those Honda's need proper maintenance to work (mostly you need to drain the carbs after each use, and preferable drain the tanks as well). I have 2, I doubt I could start either of them at the moment. Hard to tell, I have not run them since they came back from the repair shop.

On having the Honda's at the repair shop, was it due to leaving old gas in the tank too long or other reasons?

 

[VintageReefer]

I left my generator filled with fuel stabilizer and it wouldn’t start when I tested it after 2 years. Carb was gunked up beyond my skills. Had to have a small engine repair company clean everything out for me

As for lipo vs lead acid
- Lipo does have better density and can store more energy in less space

- Lipo is designed to safely discharge almost all of its stored energy. Lead acid should not be discharged below 50% or you risk damaging the battery or significantly reducing its lifespan

- Lipo batteries are over 95% percent efficient, meaning that 95 percent or more of the energy stored in a lithium-ion battery is actually able to be used. Lead acid batteries are only around 80% efficient

- Lipo batteries have longer lifespan and can be charged and discharged thousands of times with minimal loss

- Lipo batteries can be stored fully charged and retain full charge without degrading over time

- Lipo batteries can be recharged significantly faster, while still being safe. Having brief moments of power will have greater impact in recharging Lipo

- and then the discharge curve. Lipo puts out near full voltage and power significantly longer. As you use lipo the output is constant. Lead acid output voltage starts to decrease continuously as you use them, and remember, you are not supposed to use them past 50%

The only advantage lead acid has is cost but when you factor that you can only safely use them for half their capacity it almost nulls that argument out

Removing cost, there’s no real defense for lead acid, my other hobby is rc cars and we figured this out 10-15 years ago and found that lipo batteries significantly outperform standard batteries, and, they can even outperform rc cars that run on nitromethane.

I converted my kids Power Wheel truck to Lithium from lead acid. Run time went from 1-2 hours before significant power loss, to 6-8 hours of full power. Totally worth it

When it comes to a battery backup for my reef or anything else of value, I’m using Lipo.

 

[Reefering1]

Lipo is designed to safely discharge almost all of its stored energy. Lead acid should not be discharged below 50% or you risk damaging the battery or significantly reducing its lifespan

The real problem with lipo is that they catch fire and explode if abused. So everything designed to use them puts safety as priority over function. They will shut down soon as the voltage starts dropping vs a sla that will go until it runs out of power to give. What this means-
You can run them down to 6 volts, and they will take the recharge, many times before it's ruined. In a real situation those batteries are disposable- I want them to kill themselves giving up the volts. Without burning down my house

- and then the discharge curve. Lipo puts out near full voltage and power significantly longer. As you use lipo the output is constant. Lead acid output voltage starts to decrease continuously as you use them, and remember, you are not supposed to use them past 50%

Another way to view this is they fall off quickly instead of a steadily decreasing, predictable voltage. Lipo will seem fully charged one minute then be unusable/dead the next.

When it comes to a battery backup for my reef or anything else of value, I’m using Lipo.

Guess it depends what you're protecting/ looking for. In a emergency, I'm not telling my tanks they only get 6 hours then good luck. I want the equipment I use to kill itself doing it's job, not sit down in a few hours because its tired.
Again, without burning down the house. During/ immediate after a hurricane, fire/police are not coming

 

[VintageReefer]

With bms they won’t be abused some devices don’t come with it. Others do
The power stations I linked have it. My kids power wheel doesn’t. But the charger does
I suggest you look into bms a little more

Why Use BMS for LiPo battery and how to choose Lipo BMS? - MokoEnergy - Your New Energy Solution Provider

The BMS for LiPo battery provides advanced power management by balancing battery voltage and preventing overcharging and short circuits.

www.mokoenergy.com

It Monitors temperature, every cells voltage and capacity, balances the batteries and compensates if certain cells have more or less energy. It’s a complete battery health monitoring and safety system.

Yes lipo when it does start to voltage drop, it happens quickly. But you get full power for a much longer period of time.
with current tech their runtime can be calculated and predicted

“ Lipo will seem fully charged one minute then be unusable/dead the next. “

My lipo stations tell me how many hours they will run when under load…it doesn’t just turn off without warning. It gives me a real time read out measuring available power and tells me how long it can run for. Even my lipo vacuum does this

Here we go, unplugged the unit and it’s on lipo power. You make it sound like these batteries will just shut off without warning. Is 41 hours not enough warning?

“ They will shut down soon as the voltage starts dropping vs a sla that will go until it runs out of power to give. ”

They both run until they run out of power to give. It’s just one puts out full voltage steadily, longer. Why would I want my 12v battery putting out 10 or 8 or 6 volts to my equipment ?

I’d rather have full power start to finish, and give my devices the voltage they were designed for, than to continuously have voltage and power drop, that is under powering equipment, putting the actual gear at risk.

And, I can run them down to that drop off and actually get 90-95% of their power to my gear, without risking the batteries health or lifespan. These aren’t disposable, you run em till they can’t run anymore then charge and do it again. Thousands of times

 

[SaltwaterScoop]

I got the delta 2 hooked up. I decided to run a 20 ft power strip from behind the tanks to a "dryer" area beside the tanks instead of under the right 40 gallon.

I have the Vectra M2 return pump @ 42%, 1x MP40 @20%, and 1x MP10 @ 50% hooked up to the battery running at 38 Watts. With all of this connected it looks like I'll get 20 hours out of the Delta 2. I was hoping to get more hours out of this configuration but I guess I calculated wrong.

Here's with just the Vectra M2 return pump running at 42% (expected this to run for ~37 hours):

I just read that to maintain the wifi/inverter/data logging on the unit, it consumes around 20W per hour so I think that explains why my runtime expectations were way off. I'm now thinking the Delta 2 isn't the right choice for running lower wattage devices for extended periods of time. The performance seems comparable to my way cheaper Ecotech Battery Backup

 

[VintageReefer]

I got the delta 2 hooked up. I decided to run a 20 ft power strip from behind the tanks to a "dryer" area beside the tanks instead of under the right 40 gallon.

I have the Vectra M2 return pump @ 42%, 1x MP40 @20%, and 1x MP10 @ 50% hooked up to the battery running at 38 Watts. With all of this connected it looks like I'll get 20 hours out of the Delta 2. I was hoping to get around 23 hours out of this configuration but I guess I calculated wrong.

Here's with just the Vectra M2 return pump running at 42% (expected this to run for ~37 hours):

I just read that to maintain the wifi/inverter/data logging on the unit, it consumes around 20W per hour so I think that explains why my runtime expectations were way off.

20 watts an hour is a lot of consumption.
What sold you on the delta over the cellpowa?

The cellpowa 1000 is nearly identical wh (1075) for 400$ And you would not lose power to wifi and other stuff

Your getting 27 hours for a 23 watt load, on a device with 1000 wh

My cellpowa 600 gives 30 hours on a very similar load of 19 watts, and it’s half the capacity of yours 537.5wh).

Are there options in yours you can disable to increase runtime?

 

[SaltwaterScoop]

20 watts an hour is a lot of consumption.
What sold you on the delta over the cellpowa?

The cellpowa 1000 is nearly identical wh (1075) for 400$ And you would not lose power to wifi and other stuff

Your getting 27 hours for a 23 watt load, on a device with 1000 wh

My cellpowa 600 gives 30 hours on a very similar load of 19 watts, and it’s half the capacity of yours 537.5wh).

Are there options in yours you can disable to increase runtime?

I could definitely lower the intensity of the pumps during outages to help extend the life.

I originally picked the delta 2 because I was going to place it in the small area under my right 40 gallon but after reading all of their warnings about keeping far away from water, I decided to move it.

These are the only energy related options I see:

My first delta 2 I ordered through TikTok was stolen during shipping when it reached one of the distribution centers so I ended up ordering this one from Amazon. I might be able to return it but it looks like there are weird return options since it's a battery.

The delta 2 seems to be performing as a $600 730 Wh battery than can charge itself quickly.

 

[Jmp998]

I have been thinking about buying one of these power stations, so I have been doing some reading. Assuming the testing below is reasonably accurate, it does seem like there is a lot of variation in the amount of power 'wasted' by the inverter at low load. For our purposes (usually running a low load for a long time), this could have a pretty significant impact on ultimate useable power and is probably worth looking into before buying. As you can see, for all of these models there is at least some wasted power, and the useable Wh yield when run at low draw is considerably below the rated Wh. There are probably better comparisons out there, but this is just one I happened upon recently.

The Best Portable Power Stations of 2024, Tested and Reviewed

Find the best portable power stations for your backcountry and frontcountry plans, based on extensive, hands-on testing.

www.outdoorlife.com

 

[VintageReefer]

I unplugged my power station from the wall and increased my return pump, I couldn’t hit 23 watts but I could do 24 and 26

These are the calculated runtimes

If he curious how accurate this is, but it should be factoring for the inverter as this is a measurement of remaining battery life based on all current load

 

[VintageReefer]

I have been thinking about buying one of these power stations, so I have been doing some reading. Assuming the testing below is reasonably accurate, it does seem like there is a lot of variation in the amount of power 'wasted' by the inverter at low load. For our purposes (usually running a low load for a long time), this could have a pretty significant impact on ultimate useable power and is probably worth looking into before buying. As you can see, for all of these models there is at least some wasted power, and the useable Wh yield when run at low draw is considerably below the rated Wh. There are probably better comparisons out there, but this is just one I happened upon recently.

The Best Portable Power Stations of 2024, Tested and Reviewed

Find the best portable power stations for your backcountry and frontcountry plans, based on extensive, hands-on testing.

www.outdoorlife.com

Instead of wasted, I would use the word consumed. It take power to run the device, the lcd screen, the inverter, fans, and that’s the bare minimum. There is loss when converting from dc to ac and vice versa. When you add in features like gps and wifi, those things take additional power to operate.

Some of these stations are of a higher quality than others. Cheap inverters consume more power to operate and generate more heat, and tmrhen need to run fans more to compensate

The advertised wh is the actual capacity of the batteries inside the unit. The measures wh is the amount usable after the device takes what it needs to operate

The general formula is that you get 80-85% the stated wh which factors for a 15-20% loss which goes to powering the station. This is general. To give an estimate of runtime prior to buying

However some brands and models are very efficient and some are inefficient and there outliers fall outside the average.

Typically you would calculate

(Wh x .85) / load watts = predicted hours of run time

This seems to correlate with the larger load column. When under the lower load column, amount of usable wh is less, because the run time is significantly longer meaning the device is powering itself longer, which consumes battery.

 

[Reefering1]

It may be worth mention... if these units are anything like apc ups units, they may need to learn their capacity. Meaning the more you use it, the more accurate the runtime calculation will be. I would let it run for a day and see if it adjusts the calculation.