Are algae, dinos and cyan inevitable?

[zerozero]

So we're three months into our saltwater journey with our Fluval Evo 13'5g/52l. I think things are going well. We got infront of NO3 and PO4 bottoming out by doubling feeding. We've had dinos since week 2 (mid July). I realised that I'd neglected our CUC we had 2x Nassarius snails and 2x Hermits. Subsequently we've found a Stomatella snail (about an inch) and a tiny starfish. One hermit killed the other, as they do. We recently (last weekend) added a red fire shrimp. We have 2x Nassarius snails, 2x Hermits and a conch on order. They finally arrive around next Thursday.

2/10/24 results:
NO3 5.0 -> 6.5
PO4 0.05 -> 0.07
ALK 8.3 -> 8.6

So, as it says in the title are GHA, dinos and cyano an inevitable part of a new tank?
Can I avoid them?
And if so, what should I do?

 

[zerozero]

Forgot to say that we have a little GHA but it limited to frag plugs

 

[Waters]

Common, yes. Inevitable, no. I have set up tanks where I never saw any algae or bacterial issues from start to finish. I have also set up tanks where had nothing but problems lol. I would say try to have as much bacterial biodiviserity from the beginning along with a healthy CUC (inverts, fish, etc.)....in addition to keeping water chemistry stable wthing the proper ranges, of course. That seemed to be the difference from my successes to failures. And before everybody chimes in with the dry vs live rock debate, my most successful tank was set up with nothing by dry rock.....but that tank had the two things that I mentioned, from the very beginning.

 

[zerozero]

Common, yes. Inevitable, no. I have set up tanks where I never saw any algae or bacterial issues from start to finish. I have also set up tanks where had nothing but problems lol. I would say try to have as much bacterial biodiviserity from the beginning along with a healthy CUC (inverts, fish, etc.)....in addition to keeping water chemistry stable wthing the proper ranges, of course. That seemed to be the difference from my successes to failures. And before everybody chimes in with the dry vs live rock debate, my most successful tank was set up with nothing by dry rock.....but that tank had the two things that I mentioned, from the very beginning.

Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for.

I also forgot to add (Liverpool game is on) that I've been adding Phytoplankton for a few weeks. I introduced copepods last week after lights were off. I'm all for biodiversity, but can't tell if there's been any impact. I'm a newbie so, as I understand it, there's no fish we can add to help us (we have two clowns in 13.5g).

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

Will you have algae in your tank? Yes. Will it be a big problem and an outbreak? It depends on how you manage the tank.
Although it may exist somewhere, Ive never heard of a tank devoid of algae. Algae isnt an issue if you manage it anyway.

 

[Lavey29]

You don't get dinos in week 2 of a new tank perhaps diatoms which is normal and goes away on its own but not dinos 2 weeks in

 

[slingfox]

You probably want to add some snails to your rock since you don't have any CUC that will focus on that effort.

 

[BriDroid]

I'm only 2 months in, so by no means an expert. What I have experienced so far have been a brown dusting for a few days. It would cover the sand and rocks in the lights and go away at night. I put a UV sterilizer on the tank and that really seems to have helped those go away. I do have a few patches of GHA that look like they came in on a frag, since they are in that general area. My blue leg hermits and trochus snail seem to keep that in check for the most part. Other than that, I have a hard green algae that is on the rocks. You can't scrape it off and the snails can't eat it, but them and the hermits pick at it all day.

The only thing that I have been doing, and maybe helping, maybe a waste, is I dose MicrobactorClean everyday. I've been doing that since the cycle finished, I was using Microbactor7 for the cycle. I bought a 500ml bottle of the Clean. Once it's gone I won't order anymore. Not sure if it's really helping or if it's all placebo? It makes me feel good and the tank is doing good, so I'll finish it off.

 

[Lavey29]

I'm only 2 months in, so by no means an expert. What I have experienced so far have been a brown dusting for a few days. It would cover the sand and rocks in the lights and go away at night. I put a UV sterilizer on the tank and that really seems to have helped those go away. I do have a few patches of GHA that look like they came in on a frag, since they are in that general area. My blue leg hermits and trochus snail seem to keep that in check for the most part. Other than that, I have a hard green algae that is on the rocks. You can't scrape it off and the snails can't eat it, but them and the hermits pick at it all day.

The only thing that I have been doing, and maybe helping, maybe a waste, is I dose MicrobactorClean everyday. I've been doing that since the cycle finished, I was using Microbactor7 for the cycle. I bought a 500ml bottle of the Clean. Once it's gone I won't order anymore. Not sure if it's really helping or if it's all placebo? It makes me feel good and the tank is doing good, so I'll finish it off.

A UV on a 2 month tank is a waste of time and money. You do realize it kills good stuff to? You are killing off what little biome you have in a new system. Does absolutely nothing for diatoms or green rock algae. Everything you described is just normal diatoms and green algae in a new system. The diatoms simply go away in a few weeks when the silicates are gone. Your rocks will change all different colors with algae, green, brown, red, purple, etc... it's part of the tank evolution and various ugly phases will visit you throughout the first year without exception.

 

[zerozero]

You don't get dinos in week 2 of a new tank perhaps diatoms which is normal and goes away on its own but not dinos 2 weeks in

Sorry, that should be diatoms. I'm not bothered by them but they are just... ugly

You probably want to add some snails to your rock since you don't have any CUC that will focus on that effort.

I just added banded torches snails last week and though they do a good job on the diatoms on the glass and back panel (great job to be fair) they don't venture on to the sand or the rocks. Only the stomatella snail spends time on the rocks,

 

[BriDroid]

Put in a couple astrea snails. Mine never leave the rocks. My trochus goes all over the glass and the rocks. My Cerith snails are all over everything.

 

[zerozero]

I'm only 2 months in, so by no means an expert. What I have experienced so far have been a brown dusting for a few days. It would cover the sand and rocks in the lights and go away at night. I put a UV sterilizer on the tank and that really seems to have helped those go away. I do have a few patches of GHA that look like they came in on a frag, since they are in that general area. My blue leg hermits and trochus snail seem to keep that in check for the most part. Other than that, I have a hard green algae that is on the rocks. You can't scrape it off and the snails can't eat it, but them and the hermits pick at it all day.

The only thing that I have been doing, and maybe helping, maybe a waste, is I dose MicrobactorClean everyday. I've been doing that since the cycle finished, I was using Microbactor7 for the cycle. I bought a 500ml bottle of the Clean. Once it's gone I won't order anymore. Not sure if it's really helping or if it's all placebo? It makes me feel good and the tank is doing good, so I'll finish it off.

Thank you for your post. A UV steriliser is not an option for me as I feed the tank with phytoplankton. The corals look healthy and the copepods rely on them. There's also some benefits for the parameters of the the tank the details of which I can't recall right now.

I also have that that hard green algae. It only comes off with a razor blade.


You can see that hard algae as the brown dots on the glass. They are green in daylight. I'll look in to the MicrobactorClean. Interesting that you feel it might be a placebo. When we're just starting out it's hard to know what's working and why.

 

[robottaway]

Hey there As a fellow Evo 13.5 owner wish you luck! Subbed! My own experience was a very easy ugly period. Actually the smoothest I have had across a number of tanks. First time using a bacterial start product, made me a believer. Kept lights off the first couple months. Didn’t add fish and 5 blue legged hermits until 6 weeks in, which was 4-5 after tank was cycled. GHA started to take off around one year. Added three astrea snails and was all but gone a month later. Bubble algae randomly at year two. Manual removal, popping them, water changes and patience and slowly went away. Six months ago vermitid snails went gangbusters. Added four bumblebee snails now they are well managed. Now in year three starting to get some cyano on the sand bed Issues will most likely come up consistently and require prompt action. Staying on top of them is the key to success.

IMO great tank. Ran it as it came for over two years before making major upgrades.

 

[Dan_P]

So we're three months into our saltwater journey with our Fluval Evo 13'5g/52l. I think things are going well. We got infront of NO3 and PO4 bottoming out by doubling feeding. We've had dinos since week 2 (mid July). I realised that I'd neglected our CUC we had 2x Nassarius snails and 2x Hermits. Subsequently we've found a Stomatella snail (about an inch) and a tiny starfish. One hermit killed the other, as they do. We recently (last weekend) added a red fire shrimp. We have 2x Nassarius snails, 2x Hermits and a conch on order. They finally arrive around next Thursday.

2/10/24 results:
NO3 5.0 -> 6.5
PO4 0.05 -> 0.07
ALK 8.3 -> 8.6

So, as it says in the title are GHA, dinos and cyano an inevitable part of a new tank?
Can I avoid them?
And if so, what should I do?

Probably inevitable, but this is not to say that these organisms will reach obnoxious levels or hang around for months. There are dozens of factors acting on these microorganism ecologies that determine which trajectory the aquarium ecology will take. It is currently impossible to predict too many aquarium outcomes. The hobby knowledge of these factors is incomplete and based mostly on anecdotal data. Luck is as good an explanation as bacteria diversity.

 

[zerozero]

Put in a couple astrea snails. Mine never leave the rocks. My trochus goes all over the glass and the rocks. My Cerith snails are all over everything.

Thanks. I'm definitely leaning towards adding to the diversity of the snail population. Probably go for Ceriths snails though the were indirectly responsible for the only major tank death. My smaller hermit killed and took the home of the larger hermit when he moved in.

 

[zerozero]

Hey there As a fellow Evo 13.5 owner wish you luck! Subbed! My own experience was a very easy ugly period. Actually the smoothest I have had across a number of tanks. First time using a bacterial start product, made me a believer. Kept lights off the first couple months. Didn’t add fish and 5 blue legged hermits until 6 weeks in, which was 4-5 after tank was cycled. GHA started to take off around one year. Added three astrea snails and was all but gone a month later. Bubble algae randomly at year two. Manual removal, popping them, water changes and patience and slowly went away. Six months ago vermitid snails went gangbusters. Added four bumblebee snails now they are well managed. Now in year three starting to get some cyano on the sand bed Issues will most likely come up consistently and require prompt action. Staying on top of them is the key to success.

See, this is the thing. You're in year three and suddenly have cyano popping up. Any idea why? Did your nitrates and phosphates bottom out?

IMO great tank. Ran it as it came for over two years before making major upgrades.

I saw you latest update. Honestly thought there was some sort of glitch when I saw the name of your new return pump. It's not available here but there's a TMC pump that looks the same. It has good reviews and is quiet. Looking at it to upgrade the flow in the tank.

 

[Solo McReefer]

Just takes one cell for those to populate a tank

I have not set up a tank ever that did not have an ugly phase with at least one of the uglies

The worst for me was chrysophytes

After you have that, all those you listed are nothing by comparison

You will look all those others is the face and say, "Bah, you're nothing"

 

[robottaway]

See, this is the thing. You're in year three and suddenly have cyano popping up. Any idea why? Did your nitrates and phosphates bottom out?


I saw you latest update. Honestly thought there was some sort of glitch when I saw the name of your new return pump. It's not available here but there's a TMC pump that looks the same. It has good reviews and is quiet. Looking at it to upgrade the flow in the tank.

Believe the cyano growth is a chain reaction due to improper/poor tank maintenance. I did too much sand vacuuming in a go, and had waited too long to do said vacuuming. Went against my own advice of everything more often, in smaller amounts, and regularly.

Nitrates and phosphates have been stable, slowly zig-zagging in a range that is suitable. Stirring up things may have caused a spike that the cyano consumed hence the growth. Not able to detect spike with my testing but often that is how it goes. Algae and/or bacteria feed on the spiked nutrients and grow fast, depleting the spiked excess quickly. I plan to be consistent with the water changes each week and do a better job with sand maintenance. I bet the cyano will die down aver next fee weeks.

As for the pump I say you can’t go wrong. Quiet and consistent. At intensity 6/7 matches the flow of the included fluval pump.

You are correct, a few folks appear to be building off a similar base. Only difference I see is in the color of plastics and the controller interface. Aqua Illumination even has a cloud managed version that works with their phone app which is slick but $$.

Worst part of the OG pump was the maintenance. Could try removing the OG fluval pumps foam filter to see if that helps keep flow more consistent. I never thought to and it caused me to have to clean the pump foam filter every couple weeks otherwise flow would start dropping off quickly.

 

[zerozero]

Believe the cyano growth is a chain reaction due to improper/poor tank maintenance. I did too much sand vacuuming in a go, and had waited too long to do said vacuuming. Went against my own advice of everything more often, in smaller amounts, and regularly.

Nitrates and phosphates have been stable, slowly zig-zagging in a range that is suitable. Stirring up things may have caused a spike that the cyano consumed hence the growth. Not able to detect spike with my testing but often that is how it goes. Algae and/or bacteria feed on the spiked nutrients and grow fast, depleting the spiked excess quickly. I plan to be consistent with the water changes each week and do a better job with sand maintenance. I bet the cyano will die down aver next fee weeks.

This is really helpful. I'm pretty good with water changes and my loves to get involved (it his tank after all). I have a couple of obvious dead spots in the tank and usually we only do a thorough clean of that part of the sand bed.

As for the pump I say you can’t go wrong. Quiet and consistent. At intensity 6/7 matches the flow of the included fluval pump.

You are correct, a few folks appear to be building off a similar base. Only difference I see is in the color of plastics and the controller interface. Aqua Illumination even has a cloud managed version that works with their phone app which is slick but $$.

Worst part of the OG pump was the maintenance. Could try removing the OG fluval pumps foam filter to see if that helps keep flow more consistent. I never thought to and it caused me to have to clean the pump foam filter every couple weeks otherwise flow would start dropping off quickly.

Two things:
1) I've been thinking about a DC wavemaker just to add a bit more gentle turbulence to the tank. Upgrading the return pump is another option as I have RFG on one of return nozzles.
2) I didn't know there was a sponge on the stock pump and have never cleaned it Something for us to tackle tomorrow.

Also, just noticed you're posting from Bakersfield, CA. My uncle went to Fresno SU and was good enough to have my brother and I come over for a couple of weeks, so I'm familiar with Bakersfield. We flew over the North Pole on Christmas Day on TWA (it was a long time ago) and flew back from LAX on Pan Am.

 

[robottaway]

This is really helpful. I'm pretty good with water changes and my loves to get involved (it his tank after all). I have a couple of obvious dead spots in the tank and usually we only do a thorough clean of that part of the sand bed.


Two things:
1) I've been thinking about a DC wavemaker just to add a bit more gentle turbulence to the tank. Upgrading the return pump is another option as I have RFG on one of return nozzles.
2) I didn't know there was a sponge on the stock pump and have never cleaned it Something for us to tackle tomorrow.

Also, just noticed you're posting from Bakersfield, CA. My uncle went to Fresno SU and was good enough to have my brother and I come over for a couple of weeks, so I'm familiar with Bakersfield. We flew over the North Pole on Christmas Day on TWA (it was a long time ago) and flew back from LAX on Pan Am.

Just my opinion but I think having a separate wave maker presents quite a few more options for flow patterns. If it was me I would just remove the sponge, and the maintenance head ache, and allocate budget elsewhere.

Small world! The Bulldogs were a conference rival of sorts back when I was enrolled up in Oregon. Now I live just a stones throw away. Hope you got to check out some of the local stuff like Yosemite and the Giant Sequoias while out this way. Central valley is quite a different “California” experience than what folks expect from tv/media portrayals.