Are “Basement Vendors” Ruining The Reefing Industry?

[Reefer Matt]

This is a touchy subject, but I’d like to know what you think. A LFS in my area claimed this to be true. Business owners can feel free to answer honestly as well. I just think that most reefing vendors and businesses started off selling from home, but now they are concerned about the ease of others to do it without a store and “dilute” the industry. Or is there room for everyone?

 

[TX_REEF]

I don't think it's ruining anything - if anything, it forces vendors to be competitive on price and offer attractive stock.

 

[Jimbo327]

Bad for LFS, but good for reefers.

As far as the reefing industry, if they are aquaculturing...I think basement reefers are awesome for the hobby. But I don't appreciate when they are chop shops or price gougers.

 

[exnisstech]

I have 4 lfs. They all sell coral but I'm not sure how much profit coral sales generate. Most of them are over priced and really they don't get a lot of nice stuff in. My favorite LFS is saltwater only and does get some decent stuff. He has been in business for well over 10 years. He started in his basement so I really don't think it's harming the lfs.
I don't know for a fact but I suspect most folk selling from home are growing and selling frags from their colonies. I think this is good for the hobby. None of the stores here culture coral that I'm aware of.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Maybe it depends on which point of view we look at it from. Customers usually want lower prices, while business owners usually want more profit.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

It’s hilarious to be worried about coral vendors at home with the onset of AI to be honest. The whole world’s about to change in ways we don’t understand yet. Business owners will blame employees and customers for everything as usual.

 

[SliceGolfer]

@Reefer Matt an interesting topic for sure. Where I live, I have reasonable access to three LFSs. One of them is clearly about the grift and profit. I say grift because of first hand knowledge of business practices. Another LFS is much an old school low budget shop, not the best for anything you really need, but has good deals on corals and livestock once in a while. The last LFS is all about online sales, nothing more. I also have access to three home business sellers. Again, it's all over a spectrum. One doesn't care about maintaining courtesy or welcome new buyers, another is all about the sale, and the third has been the best experience in sharing knowledge, welcoming new hobbyists, selling aquacultured livestock, and generally nice people through and through. I want to support my LFSs, but the goods I want, they don't care to stock. The corals and fish they have are usually way overpriced for the value (quality and quantity) of the item, and one shop in particular solely operates on how quickly they can get people in and out and separate their $$$ from the wallet. If you were to see their FB posts on sales, discounts, buy this get that, etc, your head would spin!

 

[shakacuz]

Maybe it depends on which point of view we look at it from. Customers usually want lower prices, while business owners usually want more profit.

bingo!!!

even as i don't have an active tank running currently, its shocking to see prices are still as high as ever. sales are not even sales, yet look more like mortgage payments or a weekend trip somewhere, for a single coral.... yes, the worth of something is dependent on the buyer and their desire to have the coral but there comes a point where its just not worthwhile.

oh, and not to mention, vendors are editing their photos too much to where you can't even tell if the coral you received is the same one you bought. i rather see the coral for myself, inspect for pests or make sure if the color or type of coral is what i want.

 

[xiaoxiy]

For me, it’s not only that hobbyists tend to have cheaper corals, it’s also hard to find a local LFS that has corals comparable in both health, variety, and lineage some of the more advanced local hobbyists in my area.

 

[00W]

I figure most selling from home are doing it either for fun or accident and are not in it for the high dollar.
I have petco here. That's it.
Most if not all my softies I've been given for free from fellow hobbiests or petco itself.
We don't have any access to stores where you can go see it in person.
I'm not an order online type of guy so if a local hobbiest is doing it in their house (can't use a basement in Idaho, way too cold) and they invite me for a look/sale I say cool, more power to you.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

Basement vendors are not ruining the reefing industry. Your LFS or any LFS that says that is just being lazy. If the were really concerned they would offer something that the basement vendors do not carry. If someone is not making a profit then they tend to blame someone. You have brick and mortars blaming Amazon, Restaurants blaming food trucks, etc. You have to offer people a service they can not get anywhere else, that also doesn’t necessarily mean cheaper.

 

[BeanAnimal]

A brick and mortar LFS has exponentially more overhead than an 18 year old kid living at home and growing out frags for "profit" on mom and dad's dime...

Then there is everything in between, much of which may have an online storefront but is below the radar with regard to tax liability, insurance, etc. Then you have a much smaller number of legitimate online livestock vendors.

What most people at this level of the hobby don't understand is who the typical LFS customer is. It is NOT you and for the vast majority is NOT coral or "reef" sales. While "our" business helps, the vast majority of most LFS business is "daddy, I want a fish tank" and "hi, here to pick up fish for Dr. Bobs office, they killed them all again this week". Of course there are exceptions. However, none of them can compete dollar for dollar to online, let alone basement vendors. The point is that they don't really need to.

Many of us (14footreef just posted in another thread) do use the LFS even if it is more expensive. It keeps money local and keeps a business there that you can rely on.

Do the basement businesses hurt the LFS? Sure to an for those that are niche coral and reef supply shops. But again, if they are doing things right then you will want to spend more with them than some random online crap shoot.

 

[mariano]

Every time i step into a lfs, i feel like I'm about to buy a private jet.

 

[I never finish anythi]

I'm glad people sell frags from home . It's the greedy lfs that ruin it tbh with there super high prices for Tiny frags . Big up the basement sellers

 

[RedOtterCoral]

I have 3 lfs within "reasonable" driving distance and none of those three carry any Acropora of note, usually just brownouts, overpriced strawberry shortcakes or yellowtips. To get quality frags, I have to order online or wait for swaps, both of which are filled with 'basement' operations haha

 

[BriDroid]

Every one of the 10 frags in my new tank came from either individuals or local online auctions. They were much less expensive, much healthier, and much better variety than I could get at any LFS around me. With the cost of starting up a new tank so high now days, it was nice to be able to save a bit on some of the livestock!

 

[Devaji]

It’s hilarious to be worried about coral vendors at home with the onset of AI to be honest. The whole world’s about to change in ways we don’t understand yet. Business owners will blame employees and customers for everything as usual.

this! I dont think we as humans or reefers are prepared for the massive change that is incoming.
in the next 5-10 years 15 years max most jobs will be replaced by AI robots. most people will be on UBI suffering from depression over weight and sick.

I think its really important for people to find thing there are passionate about to bring them a since of value, pride & self worth.

maybe for some that is a basement coral farm to keep them engaged with life and people.
I personally think the future of coral farms will be small basement.frag tank reefers doing there think and sharing it each other.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I'm glad people sell frags from home . It's the greedy lfs that ruin it tbh with there super high prices for Tiny frags . Big up the basement sellers

Can you show your "greedy" math, please?

You may not be happy with their pricing, but that does not make them greedy or dishonest. Blanket statements like that indicate a lack of understanding of what it costs to run a business.

 

[Reefer Matt]

I’m guilty of being a “basement vendor”, but I only sell at a couple local swaps, and I don’t advertise. The business is registered and sales taxes are paid. But it is very much a side thing for me. I could never make the same amount of money with the benefits as my career by opening a full time store in my area. So I try to be fair to those that do depend on coral and fish sales to pay their bills, but also to the Reefers. I don’t do it to help pay for my reefing, I just do it to get out and see everyone.

 

[danreef55]

Does anyone remember when we enjoyed taking a frag of a highly prized coral and giving it away to another enthusiast? To me it is one of the most rewarding things in the hobby. Without exception these corals received extraordinary attention from their new caretaker. If nothing else, you have an 'offsite' backup in the event of a disaster which we strive to never have happen. Enjoy