Aquaforest vs BRS 2-part - math on the costs. Aquaforest strength?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If you properly match the alk and calcium, dilution does not change the product attributes. You can dilute however you want, and can generally concentrate the calcium part of mist mixes just fine.

 

[kyley]

If you properly match the alk and calcium, dilution does not change the product attributes. You can dilute however you want, and can generally concentrate the calcium part of mist mixes just fine.

Thanks Randy! Although... What do you mean by "properly match" the Alk and Ca? Just the strength?

My question is just if using Bulk Reef Supply's Alk mix (which is 100% carbonate) paired with Aquaforest's Ca+Mg and Reef Mineral Salt would be okay? Aquaforest's Alk is a 70/30 bicarbonate / carbonate mix. They would be mixed to be the proper strength (to match the AF Ca), but I'm changing the type of Alk mix from what AF uses. I assume this would be fine, but I'm no chemist so I want to check before I try this.
--Kyle

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks Randy! Although... What do you mean by "properly match" the Alk and Ca? Just the strength?

My question is just if using Bulk Reef Supply's Alk mix (which is 100% carbonate) paired with Aquaforest's Ca+Mg and Reef Mineral Salt would be okay? Aquaforest's Alk is a 70/30 bicarbonate / carbonate mix. They would be mixed to be the proper strength (to match the ** Ca), but I'm changing the type of Alk mix from what ** uses. I assume this would be fine, but I'm no chemist so I want to check before I try this.
--Kyle

yes, strength. About 2.8 dKH matching 18-20 ppm calcium.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The chemical nature of the alk supplement (bicarbonate, carbonate, hydroxide, acetate, formate, etc.) has no bearing on how it pairs up with a calcium supplement.

 

[kyley]

yes, strength. About 2.8 dKH matching 18-20 ppm calcium.

The chemical nature of the alk supplement (bicarbonate, carbonate, hydroxide, acetate, formate, etc.) has no bearing on how it pairs up with a calcium supplement.

Great, thank you! That's what I expected, but I don't like making assumptions in this hobby. Happy New Year,
--Kyle

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You’re welcome.

Good luck!

 

[Saltyanimals]

Great, thank you! That's what I expected, but I don't like making assumptions in this hobby. Happy New Year,
--Kyle

Really good discussion here. I use and mix my own AF123 using all their components in the mix your own recipe.

I was on the same quest trying to find an alternative solution to AF123. Not so much from a cost perspective since 10-15% doesn't move the needle much in my 75G, but I wanted an alternative where I would have to dose less using stronger parts. Goal was to reduce mixing time and doser container refills= saving time over money. =)

The wall that I hit was yes Ca, Mg seems to be something that could be increase in potency, but Alk will hit a saturation point. i.e. can't make that any more potent (using AF's components). If I follow correctly, I see now that in theory, we could make a stronger Alk part still using BRS alk component which is strong effectively removing this constraint. The challenge there would be that you would have to find the correct doser tuning for the other 2 parts to now adjust for the stronger Alk part. There comes the challenge and effectively reducing the simplicity of dosing AF123 equally.

The solution? Increasing the Ca and Mg solution parts to where all solutions can be dosed equally. Question is how/recipe. Or does this path take essentially take you to the BRS 3 part solution with just adding AF's Strong trace elements?

 

[W1ngz]

The wall that I hit was yes Ca, Mg seems to be something that could be increase in potency, but Alk will hit a saturation point.

Regardless of which components you use, forcing Ca or Alk solutions to their max potency increases the likelihood of precipitation.

Also, when it comes to alk specifically, it saturates at 90g/L and won't dissolve anymore after that. Dosing at that potency will quickly clog your dosing lines because the next dose, since it is already saturated, cannot dissolve any of the dried residue from the previous dose. The time you save in trying to force a mix at max saturation will be wasted later cleaning or replacing your tubing.

If you want to save time, get yourself a magnetic stirrer and a 2L erlenmeyer flask. Let the solutions mix themselves while you do some weekly testing.

 

[kyley]

If I follow correctly, I see now that in theory, we could make a stronger Alk part still using BRS alk component which is strong effectively removing this constraint. The challenge there would be that you would have to find the correct doser tuning for the other 2 parts to now adjust for the stronger Alk part. There comes the challenge and effectively reducing the simplicity of dosing AF123 equally.

The solution? Increasing the Ca and Mg solution parts to where all solutions can be dosed equally. Question is how/recipe. Or does this path take essentially take you to the BRS 3 part solution with just adding AF's Strong trace elements?

From what I understood, doubling the Aquaforest Ca + Mg (and Reef Mineral Salt) concentrations would be just a little less than the strength of the BRS Ca solution. So that's what I did (and Aquaforest confirmed it could be doubled, but not their Alk). If numbers aren't where they need to be, I'll dilute the Alk slightly (or increase the Ca a bit). So far it seems to be working fine, but Ca is a little lower than I'd like so I may try to increase the concentration. True, I may not have the two concentrations in exact balance, but I should be able to get it close enough. Cheers,
--Kyle

 

[Saltyanimals]

From what I understood, doubling the Aquaforest Ca + Mg (and Reef Mineral Salt) concentrations would be just a little less than the strength of the BRS Ca solution. So that's what I did (and Aquaforest confirmed it could be doubled, but not their Alk). If numbers aren't where they need to be, I'll dilute the Alk slightly (or increase the Ca a bit). So far it seems to be working fine, but Ca is a little lower than I'd like so I may try to increase the concentration. True, I may not have the two concentrations in exact balance, but I should be able to get it close enough. Cheers,
--Kyle

Would you also double the Strong trace elements as well? Even if they're not exactly balanced, as long as they're close it should be okay.

Sounds like you may have evolved the DIY AF123 recipe to be more potent using some BRS ingredients. If you're willing to do a recipe write up. I'll try it on my next mixing batch as an alternative and see if I can turn the doser down by half.

 

[kyley]

Would you also double the Strong trace elements as well? Even if they're not exactly balanced, as long as they're close it should be okay.

Sounds like you may have evolved the DIY AF123 recipe to be more potent using some BRS ingredients. If you're willing to do a recipe write up. I'll try it on my next mixing batch as an alternative and see if I can turn the doser down by half.

Yes, if you double the Ca/Mg and RMS, you would double the trace as well. However, their trace additives are pretty pricey, and I went with Fauna Marin Trace 1, 2, 3 and add those to my dosing jugs instead. I can check a bit later and share my "recipe."
--Kyle