Anyone use the red sea complete reef care (4 part) and recommend it?

[Spizzle]

They said it would not be much of an impact on their system, and it would be fine.

Simon (Red Sea Group) May 1, 2024, 18:59 GMT+1 Good evening Alan, Thank you for contacting us here at Red Sea. Thank you for your interest and questions regarding our 4 part ReefCare. We would kindly advise that you continue to use our original 7 part supplement programme if continuing to use your Algae Reactor. If you are wishing to move away from using the Algae Reactor then of course we would highly recommend the use of our new 4 part ReefCare programme. In short this is all down to the fact that the Algae will use up the contained elements at a much larger rate than the programme allows. This is the reply I got from Red Sea if using an algae reactor

 

[FernBluffReef]

Read somewhere that although they say only a weekly CA test. They also require a monthly Alk test.

I’m thinking of trying the 4 part when my standalone Alk, CA and Mg gets more depleted. I’m not dosing trace today and it seems like a good idea to do so but have not ICPd to know if I need to. Still a relatively new tank. When doing so I still plan on testing CA and Alk weekly along with nitrate/phosphate for now until stable

 

[dolpator]

Simon (Red Sea Group) May 1, 2024, 18:59 GMT+1 Good evening Alan, Thank you for contacting us here at Red Sea. Thank you for your interest and questions regarding our 4 part ReefCare. We would kindly advise that you continue to use our original 7 part supplement programme if continuing to use your Algae Reactor. If you are wishing to move away from using the Algae Reactor then of course we would highly recommend the use of our new 4 part ReefCare programme. In short this is all down to the fact that the Algae will use up the contained elements at a much larger rate than the programme allows. This is the reply I got from Red Sea if using an algae reactor

Thank you, but When I was talking with the rep at RAP he specifically asked me fo my tank specifications, and he said the product is to be used without a refugium, and the reactor would not make that much of an impact. I have to ask the dumb question here. If the 4 part is nothing more than a simpler 7 part, why the big difference between the two? wouldn't the refugium use up the contained elements either way. Kind of contradicts themselves. Both products are supposed to have the same elements, and what the rep told me was that with new technology they were able to put the 7 part into the 4 part. Wonder what the issue with running a refugium with the 4 part is over the 7 part. Well anyway thanks for the reply. looks like Red Sea Reps are not all on the same page...

 

[One Reefing Boi]

To my prior comment, if people are against using Calc consumption for calculate dose of this red seas 4 part system, why does everyone here swear by AFR? Isn’t that the same with ultimately less control than 4 part since AFR is essentially 1 part and you need to manually dose other things based on consumption? I got a bottle of AFR and it says to dose based on calcium consumption as well so it seems similar to the new 4 part system by read sea

 

[Js.Aqua.Project]

To my prior comment, if people are against using Calc consumption for calculate dose of this red seas 4 part system, why does everyone here swear by AFR? Isn’t that the same with ultimately less control than 4 part since AFR is essentially 1 part and you need to manually dose other things based on consumption? I got a bottle of AFR and it says to dose based on calcium consumption as well so it seems similar to the new 4 part system by read sea

I believe Randy has a post to the same claim that dosing based on calcium testing alone is not adequate for long term stability.

 

[BR260354]

If you do run a refugium or algae reactor, I wonder if you can still do the 4-part and add ChaetoGro to compensate.

 

[dolpator]

I believe Randy has a post to the same claim that dosing based on calcium testing alone is not adequate for long term stability.

This is what I am trying to figure out. I have a friend that uses Sea Lab #28 Automatic Replenisher Blocks. From what I am reading on this, it is a weekly block that replenishes 28 elements including calcium, strontium and 15 essential Trace elements, removes heavy metals and limits ammonia and phosphate while buffering PH. He has a 110 gallon total volume tank. Each weekly block is enough for 100 gallon system. Only thing he doses is alkalinity and Magnesium when needed. (See his tank Instagram @K4Fish). I talked with him in length yesterday. He keeps his alk @7-8 and Mag at 1400. Has used this product since tank build over 8 years ago, and his tank is amazing. So what is the difference between this product and Red Sea and AFR. Isn't it essentially the same thing. He said when he stopped chasing numbers and worked on stability over all else, all his worries went away and he can enjoy his tank. He test for Alkalinity, Nitrates and Phosphates weekly. That is it. The rest is handled through the Sea LAB #28 blocks....I am really confused on everything. Tropic Marin has been in this industry since the 1960's, are we to believe they do not have the best interest of the inhabitants of our tanks. That this AFR product is a bogus product. Wasn't Tropic Marin the company that pioneered the Balling Method that is being used successfully by thousands of aquarist world wide. Technology is changing not only in the world but in our hobby too, we place our faith in these companies to know that they have done the leg work, they are doing the science, they have our best interest at heart. If they didn't they would not be around, the hobby would not support them and they would go bankrupt... I am probably going to start using AFR, there are a lot of success stories on this product and how it has changed their tanks for the better. I am not saying I am going to use the product based on calcium. I am going to use the product based on all the parameters. I run a Neptune Trident on my tank. I am thinking I am going to stop chasing these so called parameters that makes everyone crazy set my Alk where I want it and let everything else play out. I will probably use a Kalk/AFR combo so that I am getting the trace elements I need for the tank, and whatever AFR isn't supplementing for Alkalinity and Calcium I will let Kalk handle that....I believe for the cost of everything these day, this to me seems the most cost efficient. Although those Sea Lab #28 blocks are $30/24. That is 24 weeks of supplementation for a 100 gallon system. That is what I have. This would equate to $5/month with Sea Lab, and everyone knows how cheap kalk. I mean you would get everything you need with two products costing less than $10 an month on 100g systems.. I mean really think about that......That is all I have to say.

 

[One Reefing Boi]

This is what I am trying to figure out. I have a friend that uses Sea Lab #28 Automatic Replenisher Blocks. From what I am reading on this, it is a weekly block that replenishes 28 elements including calcium, strontium and 15 essential Trace elements, removes heavy metals and limits ammonia and phosphate while buffering PH. He has a 110 gallon total volume tank. Each weekly block is enough for 100 gallon system. Only thing he doses is alkalinity and Magnesium when needed. (See his tank Instagram @K4Fish). I talked with him in length yesterday. He keeps his alk @7-8 and Mag at 1400. Has used this product since tank build over 8 years ago, and his tank is amazing. So what is the difference between this product and Red Sea and AFR. Isn't it essentially the same thing. He said when he stopped chasing numbers and worked on stability over all else, all his worries went away and he can enjoy his tank. He test for Alkalinity, Nitrates and Phosphates weekly. That is it. The rest is handled through the Sea LAB #28 blocks....I am really confused on everything. Tropic Marin has been in this industry since the 1960's, are we to believe they do not have the best interest of the inhabitants of our tanks. That this AFR product is a bogus product. Wasn't Tropic Marin the company that pioneered the Balling Method that is being used successfully by thousands of aquarist world wide. Technology is changing not only in the world but in our hobby too, we place our faith in these companies to know that they have done the leg work, they are doing the science, they have our best interest at heart. If they didn't they would not be around, the hobby would not support them and they would go bankrupt... I am probably going to start using AFR, there are a lot of success stories on this product and how it has changed their tanks for the better. I am not saying I am going to use the product based on calcium. I am going to use the product based on all the parameters. I run a Neptune Trident on my tank. I am thinking I am going to stop chasing these so called parameters that makes everyone crazy set my Alk where I want it and let everything else play out. I will probably use a Kalk/AFR combo so that I am getting the trace elements I need for the tank, and whatever AFR isn't supplementing for Alkalinity and Calcium I will let Kalk handle that....I believe for the cost of everything these day, this to me seems the most cost efficient. Although those Sea Lab #28 blocks are $30/24. That is 24 weeks of supplementation for a 100 gallon system. That is what I have. This would equate to $5/month with Sea Lab, and everyone knows how cheap kalk. I mean you would get everything you need with two products costing less than $10 an month on 100g systems.. I mean really think about that......That is all I have to say.

Never heard of sea lab before, might have to look into those blocks.

 

[dolpator]

Never heard of sea lab before, might have to look into those blocks.

https://www.saltwateraquarium.com/sea-lab-28-automatic-replenisher-24-blocks-2-lb-box-sea-lab/. I will tell you he says his calcium is high so if this bothers you, it may not be a fit, but it doesn't bother him, and his tank doesn't care...

 

[Neko]

Interesting... Both tropic marin and red sea propose dosing it based on calcium. In this way, I assume (1) every system will have different alkalinity level. (2) Stabilizing calcium also stabilize alkalinity. It does not cause big alkalinity swing. I am wondering this might be new trends in next few years.

"Based on calcium may cause long term stability issue" This is something I need education.

 

[Doctorgori]

If you do run a refugium or algae reactor, I wonder if you can still do the 4-part and add ChaetoGro to compensate.

I have that product, I can’t swear I see a positive change but not can I claim I’m graphing stuff either.., Thread searches haven’t been exactly endorsing this stuff either

Sea Lab #28 Automatic Replenisher Blocks.

Im gonna say this stuff has a reputation similar to prime, skilter and sea monkeys

Never heard of sea lab before, might have to look into those blocks.

might be worth searching a few threads with those keywords, my guess is it won’t be positive

 

[Doctorgori]

Interesting... Both tropic marin and red sea propose dosing it based on calcium. In this way, I assume (1) every system will have different alkalinity level. (2) Stabilizing calcium also stabilize alkalinity. It does not cause big alkalinity swing. I am wondering this might be new trends in next few years.

"Based on calcium may cause long term stability issue" This is something I need education.

I might be safe saying this isn’t endorsed by our chief chemist exactly if my understanding of his post earlier in the thread are right… still following with interest

 

[dolpator]

I have that product, I can’t swear I see a positive change but not can I claim I’m graphing stuff either.., Thread searches haven’t been exactly endorsing this stuff either

Im gonna say this stuff has a reputation similar to prime, skilter and sea monkeys

might be worth searching a few threads with those keywords, my guess is it won’t be positive

Well you can go to @K4Fish on Instagram and look at his tank. Snake oil or not, he's been running that system for over 8 years I think, and has had no ill effects using the Sea Lab #28 blocks. So as one might say, proof is in the pudding. I will never discredit Randy. The man know his stuff, I am just saying he is doing this and his tank is nice....

 

[Doctorgori]

@dolpator
You sorta OK with Sea Lab#28 but not AFR ?

…. just seeking clarification as I take a different opinion on em but won’t argue
add/edit
After a pause wanted to come back and make sure you know I’m not picking fight and don’t seek cred by winning arguments, I hate plain text doesn’t carry tone, I’m waving peace flag but in the same breath thinking you might be off on this one a lil …
honestly Sea Lab isn’t on “Vibrants” level but it does have a “Sea Monkey” vibe

Also might be a placebo effect on that fish tank using it I’d wager

 

[dolpator]

We are all in discussion here, I never take things serious. It is just observation for me right now. I actually bought the liquid form of AFR. But when I came across a friend that was using these sea Lab blocks with great success I had to drum up the questions. We are all reef keeping practitioners. There are only a few handful of people that honestly know exactly what is going on in this hobby. The rest of us are gathering as much information as we can and processing it accordingly. For me, I have always had a hard time keeping corals long term. , I don't know why, I feel my husbandry is good. I have all the equipment to help guide me, but in the end I always make calculated mistakes. Like now a days it's trace elements, if you are not supplying your rank with the necessary trace elements you are going to fail, and if you were a proponent of water changes then you were always replenishing those elements, then you see all this ducess with no water changes, keeping tank main elements stable. Then you loose sight of trace elements. I just feel like if you are doing no water changes and your are dosing a product that maintains thise important elements, who are we to say it's wrong. I will go back to what the Red Sea rep told me, they dose according to calcium. This goes against everything that we know to be incorrect, but what if it is proven that the correlation between calcium and alkalinity is what they say it is, who are we to rebut it. Because we are set in our own ways, and we don't want to change. I just don't get how a company would make this claim without actual science and theory to back up the claim.

 

[Doctorgori]

just don't get how a company would make this claim without actual science and theory to back up the claim.

That’s valid but money and science actually do mix, see climate change arguments
… but yeah we got RHF as a advocate here, he has and will put a science beat down on them… I’ve participated in a few shameless off the rail pile on threads :?Vibrant comes to mind, maybe prime and a few others

 

[dolpator]

I will never ever discredit Randy. The man knows his stuff, there is no denying that fact, and I personally would never run my tank without knowing all my parameters. And I would probably never run Red Sea Complete Reef Program, but I am intrigued on running AFR/Sea Lab, with Kalk/alk product . I would be able to control my alk, which I have always done, and my tank would get the necessary trace elements it would need. It's just how at feel after reading and listening to all the videos on AFR. This hobby is getting really expensive, even high quality salt is running you $90. I know we didn't get in this hobby knowing we were not going to spend money. However, if we are spending all our money on the up keep where is the money going to come from for the inhabitants. Especially for the beginner hobbiest..

 

[Doctorgori]

but I am intrigued on running AFR/Sea Lab, with Kalk/alk product . I would be able to control my alk, which I have always done, and my tank would get the necessary trace elements it would need.

your plan then is to dose Sea Lab #28 based on Calcium consumption?

 

[dolpator]

your plan then is to dose Sea Lab #28 based on Calcium consumption?

If I go that route, I would maintain alk and mag levels, and see where calcium falls into play. As I have seen many aquariums with calcium in the mid 550s with no issues. Alk is a more important element that I will not screw around with, as I have see. Exactly what happens when you do not keep it in check. But if the sea Lab is supplying trace elements calcium and mag. Then I supplement according with kalk, it could be an option either way, sea Lab or AFR is going to be implemented into my system is only supplying kalk and magnesium. With just dosing ESV trace elements when I remember to. I know this is not a practical approach. Which is why I am trying to evolve.

 

[dolpator]

your plan then is to dose Sea Lab #28 based on Calcium consumption?

In all honestly, I am more likely to do Kalk/AFR combo.