Mhamilton0911
BitterSalty
Really??!! I didn't tag you that thread cuz I didn't know if you'd appreciate that, but some one is really happy with their top lids.
Another Build Thread You Won't Read
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how far underwater (in the sump) is the outlet for the siphon?
OP
OP
I saw that thread. I'm very happy for her she seems very kind, and she admitted she can't read a tape measure. The 24 hour we keep 30% even if we haven't even talked to you. Pretending to be this huge multiperson corporation was weird. Then the tape measure pictures. I was undone. They are scammers, their policy is a scam, they can suck it.
OP
OP
So the emergency is one inch below the weir, and the main is 6 1/2 inches below that give or take.
This seems like an opportunity for someone to do the same exact thing, except not suck at it. If I wasn't fighting my own battle I'd jump on this lol
That's your problem, the main siphon should be 3/4" below the operating level waterline. With 6", it will take too long to purge out any air, and could airlock. Cut dat pipe
OP
OP
Cut it or make it longer? Because if you use the little diagram here; https://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/ I am set up correct. However, it is a bit noisy. There is air allowing water to slosh around some 90's I have. So I believe you but that requires me draining the overflow and pulling everything out and then putting everything back in because there isn't enough room for my hands with the returns in place. So if I can avoid that. Also, one more thing, I had it just about where you said and my siphon would not start again after cutting the pump. Lowering the main solved that issue.
One more edit. It has occurred to me that my main into the sump might be too deep into the water. I will cut that bad boy when I get home.
I'm talking about the other end of the siphon line. The drain end. That end needs to be just barely below the water level in the sump that it's draining into.
The emergency can also be below the waterline so that it will turn over into a siphon, at least that's the case for a BA.
The emergency can also be below the waterline so that it will turn over into a siphon, at least that's the case for a BA.
OP
OP
Right! Yeah that is most definitely the issue. However, a question old wise one. The emergency? The trickle noise alerts me to an issue, if it is under the water I will not know as soon. Suggestions?
twentyleagues
2500 Club Member
it not having a valve to control the flow it will start to "flush". I keep mine above and I dont overwhelm my pipe diameter to handle the flow.
OP
OP
I read that three times I don't get it. So if I leave it over the water that's fine if the pipe size is big enough (giggity) if I put it under the water line it sounds like Uncle Jimmy after a case of pabst at 2am? So either or?
The siphon line is tuned, but when you start up, it needs to purge out the air. If the line is too far underwater in the sump, any air in the line forms a bubble that has to get pushed out. The deeper the pipe is underwater, the longer it will take, and if it gets stuck/airlocked then the emergency will have to take over. It sounds like this happened unless you found the snail
As for the emergency, at the sump, yes you generally want this right at the top of the waterline, maybe 1/4" under, so that if the emergency is hitting full flow because of a blockage of the siphon, it can close over and "flush" and purge the box. So instead of getting a loud trickle, you will hear an intermittent flush, gurgle, repeat. You'll know...but allowing the emergency to convert over to full keep water off the floor
As will all things, always test it.
When I set up a Bean, I get it all tuned then slap a piece of acrylic over the siphon intake to simulate a full and sudden block. In the Bean case, the open channel generally turns into a flush/gurgle but can also balance at a very loud gurgle. Then I close the open channel and force everything to the emergency, that one can get hairy.
With Herbie, you will want to test a full siphon block. Have you hand on the pump power cord while you do it though lol
As for the emergency, at the sump, yes you generally want this right at the top of the waterline, maybe 1/4" under, so that if the emergency is hitting full flow because of a blockage of the siphon, it can close over and "flush" and purge the box. So instead of getting a loud trickle, you will hear an intermittent flush, gurgle, repeat. You'll know...but allowing the emergency to convert over to full keep water off the floor
As will all things, always test it.
When I set up a Bean, I get it all tuned then slap a piece of acrylic over the siphon intake to simulate a full and sudden block. In the Bean case, the open channel generally turns into a flush/gurgle but can also balance at a very loud gurgle. Then I close the open channel and force everything to the emergency, that one can get hairy.
With Herbie, you will want to test a full siphon block. Have you hand on the pump power cord while you do it though lol
OP
OP
Sounds like a wet and fun time. My favorite!
twentyleagues
2500 Club Member
twentyleagues
2500 Club Member
I really need to stop working while at work. Its getting in the way of important stuff like this. I see your issue in understanding what I was trying to convey. The emergency set up the way Turbo says will gurgle and "flush" (kinda like Uncle Jimmy after a case of good ole red white and blue) when the main or siphon drain gets blocked/becomes un-synced. So you will know. In my set ups I ensure I dont put too much flow through the main siphon and the emergency drain is the same diameter as the siphon, so both 1" ( I know, but its my 1" and I am happy. Besides its not the size of the pipe that counts it all about the flow). That way if some catastrophic event happens and the main becomes blocked the emergency can handle all of it! (insert giggity here)
OP
OP
Ok so it's not that deep. Like maybe two inches? Is that too deep? I think something might be clogging my hole. I opened the valve and let it get stupid then closed it back up and my sump level went back down to normal. Weird.
OP
OP
Also this algae. I'm almost 100% it's byropsis. Should I treat it with reef flux now while there re no corals? I don't know where it came from. Probably the old tank. Should I use h2o2?
geekengineer
Active Member
Well nobody is reading it right now so no change there. 
yes. It needs to be more like 1/2" or 3/4", and you will also want to make sure that the area that it is in maintains a constant water level while operating. Such as an intake chamber that spills over into the rest of the sump. Then the water level in that chamber is wholly dependent on the size of the chamber itself (horizontal LxW) and the flow rate through it. So if flow rate goes up (pump is run higher speed) then the water level will rise a bit, lower pump speed it lowers a bit, that kind of thing. Then as pumps and pipe get gooed up, flow generally goes down but the siphon should operate within a range.
This range is a little tricker with the Herbie because you don't have an open channel drain to cover the variance, so what you're "supposed" to do with a herbie is allow about 5% of the return flow to go down the emergency. This is a low enough flow to just "skim" the inner surface of the e-pipe, but not cause it to close over and gurgle/flush. This way if the siphon line happens to run a little high flow for whatever reason (i.e. chaos, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria, also know as "on vacation" or "going all Stay Puft") and the siphon slowly sucks down the overflow box to the intake, air gets in and this can cause the situation. Maybe. Or it could be something in the pipe slowing it down (was it a snail?)
The other option I've seen done is drilling a small hole in the pipe, right above the waterline to let air out. Very small hole, then when it siphons the pressure of the water column pushes water out the hole instead of allowing air to suck into the siphon line and fill your sump with bubbles. This doesn't work as well long-term, because: goo/slime plugging it up.
OP
OP
Ok I will trim a little off. I currently have a trickle running down the emergency.
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