Alternative Common Reefing Chemicals

[Treefer32]

So, going through and finding new suppliers for my chemicals as I'm tired of my most common supplier being out of things, or having to buy things in 1 lb containers when I go through a lot. I need a Bulk Supply company not a small tank bulk supply company. And the prices for bulk supplies are ridiculous.

I have some alternatives already:

Alk = Baked Baking Soda Arm and Hammer bags from Costco. I go through roughly 2 $13 bags a year from Costco. $26 annually for alk, my most in demand chemical.

Calcium = This is my question, would this work as an alternative: ("Active Ingredient 100%: Calcium Chloride Compound")

Pool Mate 1-2825B Calcium Hardness Increaser for Pools, 25-Pounds​

I'm going through 8 ounces per day of clacium chloride mix solution. Which equals a gallon mix lasts 2 weeks or roughly $3-4 per week $12-15 a month. The Pool Mate would be about $4 per month if it's a reef safe Calcium Chloride ingredient.

Magnesium Chloride / Sulfate: I'm switching to Epsom flakes for both and mixing at 2 cups sulfate to 5 cups Chloride in a 1 gallon solution and dosing at 16 ml per 100 ml of alk / calcium dosed. Calcium I dose at the same rate as calcium to maintain.

I want to safely save money for ongoing maintenance.

Trace elements are a bit more spend at $100 per 3 month supply. I've reduced that some by switching from red sea to prodibio coral colors trace elements.

Just checking if the Pool Mate alternative for calcium is acceptible?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Some sources of calcium chloride are fine, but without a purity guarantee (such as food grade) or knowing that a number of other reefers used it, it is hard to know. Claims about being 100% are not useful since they often only imply that there is one ingredient, not that it is 100.0000000000% calcium chloride. What impurities are present in that one ingredient are the question.

 

[Pod_01]

Trace elements are a bit more spend at $100 per 3 month supply. I've reduced that some by switching from red sea to prodibio coral colors trace elements.

For trace elements you may want to look at TM A and K elements. I suspect it may be cheaper compared to Red Sea (I didn’t do comparison on trace elements).
From my experience it seems like the Red Sea products are watered down and they do charge premium. For example they state I need to dose 20ml of Reef Energy + (aminos acids really) yet TM Amino Organic only requires 2 ml a day.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

While the focus of this link is not which brands are OK and which are not, this linked thread is a summary of lots of DIY recipes:

DIY Chemistry Archive

I thought it would be useful to have an archive of DIY chemistry methods. I'll add to it as things come up. Calcium and Alkalinity DIY method comparison https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/randy-recommended-diy-two-part-recipes.984604/ Three Part using Sodium Hydroxide (including Balling Part...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[BeanAnimal]

MY concern with products like "Dow Flake" or other industrial calciums or magnesiums or dips like "Bayer Advanced" is not just purity, but the fact that they can (and do) change composition or even the base product on a whim. They may do so based on supply, cost or other factors. This could be permanent or temporary and never be obvious by the packaging or labeling. Things like anti-caking agents may change and fall under "other ingredients" etc.

 

[Treefer32]

For trace elements you may want to look at TM A and K elements. I suspect it may be cheaper compared to Red Sea (I didn’t do comparison on trace elements).
From my experience it seems like the Red Sea products are watered down and they do charge premium. For example they state I need to dose 20ml of Reef Energy + (aminos acids really) yet TM Amino Organic only requires 2 ml a day.

Depends on how you're dosing, I don't have dosers for trace elements, so I'm currently dosing them once a week.

For TM A / K
It says 1 ml per 25 gallons daily (starting dose. Heavily stocked tank is 2ml per 25 gallons daily)
This comes out to the use of 300 gallons / 25 = 12 ml min per day up to 24 ml per day times 7 days a week =84 - 168 ml per week or 336 - 600 ml per month.
Two 500 ml (A and K) bottles would run me a total of $50 a month

Red Sea A, B, C, D
Is a little unclear on dosing guidelines, they indicate to dose based on calcium usage per day. In the past what seemed to work and supported by ICP tests was weekly dosing of their guideline of 1 ml per 25 us gallons.
12ml * 7 = 84 ml or 12 ml per day. I may have been under dosing but I was dosing 50 ml per week to be safe.
4 x 500 ml bottles @ $20 / ea = $80 total
500 ml / 50 = 10 weeks or $32 a month.

Prodibio
30 vials of Coral Color booster with trace elements @ $51
1 vial per 50 gallons every 15 days (complicates our logic a bit)
for me that's 6 vials every 15 days.
I'm currently testing this with 3 vials every 7 days to spread the elements out.
3 vials a week / 30 vials = 10 weeks of trace element dosing
This = $20 per month. 60% less cost than TM and 37% less cost than Red Sea.
What I don't know is if ProdiBio is maintaining all trace elements where they should. I need to send in for ICP now that I have 3 months of my tank running on Prodibio with no water changes. All corals show signs of growth and doing great. My more sensitive Hammers and other Euphylia are exploding. Either just signs of stability or they have the trace elements through food and dosing that they need.

 

[Treefer32]

There must be some part of science and biology that intersect that I don't understand.

Based on calculations dosing 240 ml of alk solution per day should result in the addition of around 200 + dkh.

But if my doser plugs up or I run out and miss that it's empty or plugged for a day, my alk only drops by 1-2 dkh. from 8.5 to 8 or 7.5.

If I fail to dose anything in a 24 hour period why does it not drop by 200 dkh?

It's a bit off topic. Apologies for the rabbit hole.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There must be some part of science and biology that intersect that I don't understand.

Based on calculations dosing 240 ml of alk solution per day should result in the addition of around 200 + dkh.

But if my doser plugs up or I run out and miss that it's empty or plugged for a day, my alk only drops by 1-2 dkh. from 8.5 to 8 or 7.5.

If I fail to dose anything in a 24 hour period why does it not drop by 200 dkh?

It's a bit off topic. Apologies for the rabbit hole.

240 mL of a typical alk solution to boost alk by 200 dKH would only happen in a 1.7 gallon aquarium.

Where did you get that number from?

 

[Treefer32]

240 mL of a typical alk solution to boost alk by 200 dKH would only happen in a 1.7 gallon aquarium.

Where did you get that number from?

your original recipe indicated that a 1 gallon solution of alk contains 5300 DKH. I was going purely off of dosing volume per day, not water volume that it's being diluted into. Dilution is a thing. I'll go back to my day job now. (This is why I'm not a scientist and nearly failed advanced chemistry in high school.)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

your original recipe indicated that a 1 gallon solution of alk contains 5300 DKH. I was going purely off of dosing volume per day, not water volume that it's being diluted into. Dilution is a thing. I'll go back to my day job now. (This is why I'm not a scientist and nearly failed advanced chemistry in high school.)

The solution is 5300 dKH, whether that is 1 mL, 1 gallon, or a thousand gallons.

If you add 1/5300 of the total tank volume, that will boost alk by 1 dKH.

Thus for a 100 gallon tank, that is 100/5300 = 0.019 gallons or 72 mL --> 1 dKH.

 

[Pod_01]

- 600 ml per month.
Two 500 ml (A and K) bottles would run me a total of $50 a month

I don’t think the 500ml bottles are the best deal.
The 1L bottles work out better:

That brings it down to app. $40 for 600 ml a month. Based on your use the Red Sea is still better deal.

I actually dose the A- and K+ as described by Hans Werner Balling the developer of the products:

When using Original Balling with K+ and A- Elements, prepare Part A (calcium) for one liter to 950 ml solution and add 50 ml K+ Elements. Then prepare Part B (alkalinity) for one liter to 950 ml solution and add 50 ml A- Elements.

These are the same proportions as in All-For-Reef, just applied to Original Balling.

No hand dosing for me and no need for additional pumps.
Not necessarily that this is better dosing strategy vs. fixed amount per day/per week etc…
But great for lazy people like me.

Prodibio is interesting product, they really don’t tell you what is included:

If it works keep using it…

Good luck,

 

[gbroadbridge]

So, going through and finding new suppliers for my chemicals as I'm tired of my most common supplier being out of things, or having to buy things in 1 lb containers when I go through a lot. I need a Bulk Supply company not a small tank bulk supply company. And the prices for bulk supplies are ridiculous.

I have some alternatives already:

Alk = Baked Baking Soda Arm and Hammer bags from Costco. I go through roughly 2 $13 bags a year from Costco. $26 annually for alk, my most in demand chemical.

Calcium = This is my question, would this work as an alternative: ("Active Ingredient 100%: Calcium Chloride Compound")

Pool Mate 1-2825B Calcium Hardness Increaser for Pools, 25-Pounds​

I'm going through 8 ounces per day of clacium chloride mix solution. Which equals a gallon mix lasts 2 weeks or roughly $3-4 per week $12-15 a month. The Pool Mate would be about $4 per month if it's a reef safe Calcium Chloride ingredient.

Magnesium Chloride / Sulfate: I'm switching to Epsom flakes for both and mixing at 2 cups sulfate to 5 cups Chloride in a 1 gallon solution and dosing at 16 ml per 100 ml of alk / calcium dosed. Calcium I dose at the same rate as calcium to maintain.

I want to safely save money for ongoing maintenance.

Trace elements are a bit more spend at $100 per 3 month supply. I've reduced that some by switching from red sea to prodibio coral colors trace elements.

Just checking if the Pool Mate alternative for calcium is acceptible?

I found that my locally available Pool Calcium increaser had bad effects in my tank likely due to contaminants.

I currently use bulk Calcium Chloride from a cheesemaking supplier which is quite cheap.