All for reef dosing

[areefer01]

i understand the directions but my very high alk consumption is going to make the switch to AFR very tricky without crashing the alk.

If you really have that high of a demand then AFR may be the wrong product. 1600 g container makes 10 liters at roughly $75 US pre-tax. Something to think about. Rumor was that platinum or partner LFS could buy 5 gallon buckets but I've not seen that personally and I do not have those connections.

I'm with RHF - check precipitation and/or confirm. Seems high but you know best.

 

[Rip Current]

I don't see it making AFR tricky (just very expensive), but I also think something may be wrong. If you are really using that much alk, it will take a similar amount of AFR to maintain it (except that pH will drop and that drop will reduce demand).

Do you know for sure you are dosing that amount, or is it just from a pump rating and a timer?

I have never heard of a tank using even half as much alk per day as that suggests (> 10 dKH per day).

How much calcium are you dosing per day?

Maybe it is real, since the tank is very packed with fast growing corals. But it is at the very outer edge of the envelope.

Are you sure there is no abiotic precipitation in the system somewhere, using up the alk and calcium?

I’m dosing slightly less calcium than Alk.
I have looked for percip. Both heaters are clean.
I set up the simplicity doser about nine months ago. I measured the alkalinity consumption over 24 hour period and it was 3.5 DKH
I set the doser to dose every hour to match the consumption. The alkalinity stayed at 7 to 7.5
Every couple months the alkalinity would drop below 6.8 I would adjust the dosing accordingly so now I am at 280 mL per day.
After switching from a calcium reactor to a doser the coral growth has exploded.
It looks like the AFR is not going to work for this tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’m dosing slightly less calcium than Alk.
I have looked for percip. Both heaters are clean.
I set up the simplicity doser about nine months ago. I measured the alkalinity consumption over 24 hour period and it was 3.5 DKH
I set the doser to dose every hour to match the consumption. The alkalinity stayed at 7 to 7.5
Every couple months the alkalinity would drop below 6.8 I would adjust the dosing accordingly so now I am at 280 mL per day.
After switching from a calcium reactor to a doser the coral growth has exploded.
It looks like the AFR is not going to work for this tank.

Do you know that the pumps you are using are delivering the amount you expect?

 

[Rip Current]

Do you know that the pumps you are using are delivering the amount you expect?

Yes, I test them periodically

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

OK, then I think you win the prize for the highest alk and calcium demand tank I have ever seen reported.

 

[rennjidk]

Yes, I test them periodically

OK, then I think you win the prize for the highest alk and calcium demand tank I have ever seen reported.

Well, maybe. I recently setup the same simplicity 4h doser last month. I was going to use mine as an AWC in addition to dosing AFR.

What I found was that dosing up to 50ml of solution (which is what the pump calibrates to) is generally fairly accurate.

However, when I used it as an AWC doing 320ml a day, things went way off track. By the end of the first month, my 3g NSW carboy still had around 25% left, but the waste water carboy was full.

OP, are you just calibrating your pump heads, or have you actually collected what is being dosed and measured it?

 

[crabgrass]

Bro... I'm dosing 6ml in a 40gal. Lol

8ml in 86 gallons, lol.

 

[Rip Current]

Well, maybe. I recently setup the same simplicity 4h doser last month. I was going to use mine as an AWC in addition to dosing AFR.

What I found was that dosing up to 50ml of solution (which is what the pump calibrates to) is generally fairly accurate.

However, when I used it as an AWC doing 320ml a day, things went way off track. By the end of the first month, my 3g NSW carboy still had around 25% left, but the waste water carboy was full.

OP, are you just calibrating your pump heads, or have you actually collected what is being dosed and measured it?

I collect what’s being dosed.

 

[Mikeltee]

Yes, I test them periodically

I highly suggest that you take 2.5gal (10%) of tank water and add 10% of what you think that you are going to dose of AFR in a bucket and take a reading. I'd hate to see you kill everything in your tank. If you dose 280ml of full strength AFR into a 24g you are going to kill everything. If you are dosing that much soda ash, I would assume that you got a decimal place shifted to the left on your concentration instructions.

 

[Rip Current]

OK, then I think you win the prize for the highest alk and calcium demand tank I have ever seen reported.

This coral is literally Wall to wall in this tank.
It came in on a piece of Caribbean live rock as a tiny speck. It now covers the bottom and it creeps up the side. It’s all across the back and into the filter.

 

[rennjidk]

I highly suggest that you take 2.5gal (10%) of tank water and add 10% of what you think that you are going to dose of AFR in a bucket and take a reading. I'd hate to see you kill everything in your tank. If you dose 280ml of full strength AFR into a 24g you are going to kill everything. If you are dosing that much soda ash, I would assume that you got a decimal place shifted to the left on your concentration instructions.

10% of 35g is 3.5g, not 2.5g.

You cannot test AFR this way as calcium formate uses bacteria to convert into a usable and measurable form.

 

[Rip Current]

I highly suggest that you take 2.5gal (10%) of tank water and add 10% of what you think that you are going to dose of AFR in a bucket and take a reading. I'd hate to see you kill everything in your tank. If you dose 280ml of full strength AFR into a 24g you are going to kill everything. If you are dosing that much soda ash, I would assume that you got a decimal place shifted to the left on your concentration instructions.

I’m way more advanced than that bud.

 

[crabgrass]

I highly suggest that you take 2.5gal (10%) of tank water and add 10% of what you think that you are going to dose of AFR in a bucket and take a reading. I'd hate to see you kill everything in your tank. If you dose 280ml of full strength AFR into a 24g you are going to kill everything. If you are dosing that much soda ash, I would assume that you got a decimal place shifted to the left on your concentration instructions.

Also to note that it takes a little bit for AFR to show up as Alk in tests. I think as you dose it more it may metabolize faster - but earlier on, it may take a couple days to register

 

[areefer01]

Well if you are truly replenishing your ALK at that rate then you have to ask yourself the simple question of product vs reefing budget. As I mentioned earlier most of us only have access to the largest size offered over the counter. That is the 1600 g powder container which yields 10 liters.

Calculate your estimated dose do some math and see if it makes dollars and sense. Then ask yourself what is it you believe AFR is bringing to the table for your system. Then ask another question if that could be achieved by another means such as Kalkwasser or traditional 2 part with part C or some combination along those lines.

As an aside I get the snarky remark above about you being more advanced, we get it, but your situation isn't normal. So when people are asking for confirmation or for you to do some checks it is out of safety vs you doing something stupid or in error.

As a fellow hobbyist who uses AFR I like the single dose solution and it has worked well for me. Then again I've also used ESV 2 part with great results as well. Years back Kalkwasser only. Just comes down to goals and budgets as I see it.

Food for thought. Joe Yaiullo, curator of the New York Public Aquarium, is only using Kalkwasser to the best of my knowledge for their reef display. Point being is maybe you want to look at that as it is without a doubt capable of maintaining reef displays with large, very large, coral colonies.

 

[nano reef]

I dose the same product and thinking of switching myself. 280 ml seems like a massive dose to me! I dose 12 ml per day on a tank bigger and also keep my alk higher!

You must have that tank loaded up with corals or some huge colonies! I am a bit envious but when thinking about that kind of consumption I am not! lol

 

[crabgrass]

Maybe just start with the recommended dose of AFR for your tank and continue dosing a slightly less amount of existing elements. Increase AFR, decrease Alk and Mag until your good. Ml compared to mL, they are two separate beasts

 

[Rip Current]

Also to note that it takes a little bit for AFR to show up as Alk in tests. I think as you dose it more it may metabolize faster - but earlier on, it may take a couple days to register

That’s the tricky part maintaining the 10 DKH demand while waiting for it to register

 

[crabgrass]

That’s the tricky part maintaining the 10 DKH demand while waiting for it to register

Dose both and taper off of the Alk over time

 

[rennjidk]

As an aside I get the snarky remark above about you being more advanced, we get it, but your situation isn't normal. So when people are asking for confirmation or for you to do some checks it is out of safety vs you doing something stupid or in error.

It was a little snarky, but we're almost on page 3 of a thread where half the people are asking legitimate probing questions, and the other half are just flat out telling OP he's wrong with no understanding of the chemistry behind his replies. Everything he's stated has added up, much to our amazement.

I'm guessing that the plywood sized sheet of encrusting SPS blanketing his 35g tank is soaking up a good bit of that dKH. He also has calcareous algae on every available surface, and a fully packed colony of sticks on top of that. I'm still bewildered at his tanks consumption, but it seems to be correct.

Not to mention the comment he replied to wasn't the most polite or correct to begin with.

Maybe just start with the recommended dose of AFR for your tank and continue dosing a slightly less amount of existing elements. Increase AFR, decrease Alk and Mag until your good. Ml compared to mL, they are two separate beasts

They're actually pretty close and Randy already addressed this earlier in the thread.

Same dose as each part of the two part is a good starting point as the potency is very similar.

 

[rennjidk]

Dose both and taper off of the Alk over time

We're already amazed that he's dosing 10dKH a day, and you're suggesting that he doses 20? Lol.