Alkalinity, calcium and magnesium out of balance

[Brad Coughlan]

No, it’s actually when it turns lavender, not pink, the instructions do show pink but there was an extensive testing on this and lavender is the correct stopping point.

First post in this thread explains.

Alkalinity titration endpoint pH & Salifert endpoint color

TL;DR: The endpoint pH is 4.41, and the endpoint color is that "lavender" color I've been telling people about. Over the years, there have been many threads on R2R and other forums debating a couple of basic details relevant to testing for alkalinity in reef aquaria. One of the most...

www.reef2reef.com

Oh right ok, that could explain thw high result

Thanks

 

[Reef.]

Oh right ok, that could explain thw high result

Thanks

It only makes a slight difference, you definitely should not be getting 11dkh when using 8dkh salt.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Ok fair enough

Quick question, when you use the Salifert, do you take the reading as soon as it turns pink or do you do it until it doesnt change shade anymore?

Just as it changes from blue to purple. If you go to pink you've gone about 0.02 ml too far.

 

[crazyfishmom]

I’m getting the complete opposite
Monday I did a spin test and my parameters were
7.2 ALK
487 C
1297 mg
I dosed 10ml mag
I dosed 23ml ALK
This should have raised my ALK to 8.9

I’ve ran another spin test today (Friday)
And my parameters are

6.8 ALK
457 C
1368 MG

My ALK seems to be so unstable and is churning at such a fast rate the other 2 are stable and I’m pretty happy with where their sitting

What could be dropping it he ALK so quick?

And you’re not noticing any precipitation when you add Alkalinity? That is rather odd indeed.

 

[Reef.]

Just as it changes from blue to purple. If you go to pink you've gone about 0.02 ml too far.

Yes, it’s roughly a difference of 0.3dkh, which is quite significant as most people try and keep their alk in a range of around that or 0.5dkh.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My ALK seems to be so unstable and is churning at such a fast rate the other 2 are stable and I’m pretty happy with where their sitting

What could be dropping it he ALK so quick?

Exactly what is expected. Alk flails around fast while calcium is much slower and magnesium is nearly paralyzed.

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? By Randy Holmes-Farley Calcium and alkalinity are generally supplied to reef aquaria in order to offset losses caused by the formation of calcium carbonate. There are many ways to replace these loses, and every method has its own pros...

www.reef2reef.com

Apparent Excess Demand for Alkalinity

One of the most common complaints of new aquarists is that their aquaria seem to need more alkalinity than their balanced additive system, such as limewater or All for Reef, is supplying. While there are reasons this may actually be the case over the long term (these will be detailed later in this article), frequently these aquarists are seeing a "chemical mirage" rather than a real excess demand for alkalinity.

One of the interesting features of seawater is that it contains a lot more calcium than alkalinity. By this, I mean that if all of the calcium in seawater (420 ppm) were to be precipitated as calcium carbonate, it would consume 59 dKH of alkalinity (nearly 10 times as much as is present in natural seawater). In a less drastic scenario, let's say that calcium carbonate is formed from aquarium water starting with an alkalinity of 8.4 dKH that it is allowed to drop to 5.6 dKH (a 33% drop). How much has the calcium declined? It is a surprise to many people to learn that the calcium would drop by only 20 ppm (5%). Consequently, many aquarists observe that their calcium levels are relatively stable (within their ability to reproducibly test it), but alkalinity can vary up and down substantially. This is exactly what would be expected, given that the aquarium already has such a large reservoir of calcium.

Therefore, the first "deviation" from the rule of calcium and alkalinity balance really isn't a deviation at all. If an aquarist is supplying a balanced additive to his aquarium, and calcium seems stable but alkalinity is declining, it may very well be that what is needed is more of the balanced additive, not just alkalinity. This scenario should be assumed as the most likely explanation for most aquarists who should look for more esoteric explanations for alkalinity decline only if calcium RISES substantially while alkalinity falls. Likewise, if alkalinity is rising and calcium seems stable when using a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system, the most likely explanation is that too much of the additive system is being used.

The real imbalance effects described later in this article take effect slowly, and are manifested over weeks, months and years. This short term "chemical mirage" caused simply by the mathematics of calcium and alkalinity additions can be seen in a single addition. Any effect that develops rapidly over the course of a few days is almost certainly not a true demand imbalance.The following scenarios show what can happen to a reef aquarium whose dosage with a balanced additive system does not match its demand.

Table 1 shows what can happen when the dosing is inadequate. Alkalinity drops fairly rapidly. After one day, many aquarists might conclude that they need additional alkalinity, when in reality, they need more of both calcium and alkalinity to stabilize the system.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

And you’re not noticing any precipitation when you add Alkalinity? That is rather odd indeed.

FWIW, precipitation of calcium carbonate is a balanced alk and calcium process and is never a cause of unbalanced demand.

 

[crazyfishmom]

Exactly what is expected. Alk flails around fast while calcium is much slower and magnesium is nearly paralyzed.

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? By Randy Holmes-Farley Calcium and alkalinity are generally supplied to reef aquaria in order to offset losses caused by the formation of calcium carbonate. There are many ways to replace these loses, and every method has its own pros...

www.reef2reef.com

Apparent Excess Demand for Alkalinity

One of the most common complaints of new aquarists is that their aquaria seem to need more alkalinity than their balanced additive system, such as limewater or All for Reef, is supplying. While there are reasons this may actually be the case over the long term (these will be detailed later in this article), frequently these aquarists are seeing a "chemical mirage" rather than a real excess demand for alkalinity.

One of the interesting features of seawater is that it contains a lot more calcium than alkalinity. By this, I mean that if all of the calcium in seawater (420 ppm) were to be precipitated as calcium carbonate, it would consume 59 dKH of alkalinity (nearly 10 times as much as is present in natural seawater). In a less drastic scenario, let's say that calcium carbonate is formed from aquarium water starting with an alkalinity of 8.4 dKH that it is allowed to drop to 5.6 dKH (a 33% drop). How much has the calcium declined? It is a surprise to many people to learn that the calcium would drop by only 20 ppm (5%). Consequently, many aquarists observe that their calcium levels are relatively stable (within their ability to reproducibly test it), but alkalinity can vary up and down substantially. This is exactly what would be expected, given that the aquarium already has such a large reservoir of calcium.

Therefore, the first "deviation" from the rule of calcium and alkalinity balance really isn't a deviation at all. If an aquarist is supplying a balanced additive to his aquarium, and calcium seems stable but alkalinity is declining, it may very well be that what is needed is more of the balanced additive, not just alkalinity. This scenario should be assumed as the most likely explanation for most aquarists who should look for more esoteric explanations for alkalinity decline only if calcium RISES substantially while alkalinity falls. Likewise, if alkalinity is rising and calcium seems stable when using a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system, the most likely explanation is that too much of the additive system is being used.

The real imbalance effects described later in this article take effect slowly, and are manifested over weeks, months and years. This short term "chemical mirage" caused simply by the mathematics of calcium and alkalinity additions can be seen in a single addition. Any effect that develops rapidly over the course of a few days is almost certainly not a true demand imbalance.The following scenarios show what can happen to a reef aquarium whose dosage with a balanced additive system does not match its demand.

Table 1 shows what can happen when the dosing is inadequate. Alkalinity drops fairly rapidly. After one day, many aquarists might conclude that they need additional alkalinity, when in reality, they need more of both calcium and alkalinity to stabilize the system.

Very interesting. Will definitely think about this if my alkalinity starts to shift!

 

[DJC]

Exactly what is expected. Alk flails around fast while calcium is much slower and magnesium is nearly paralyzed.

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance? By Randy Holmes-Farley Calcium and alkalinity are generally supplied to reef aquaria in order to offset losses caused by the formation of calcium carbonate. There are many ways to replace these loses, and every method has its own pros...

www.reef2reef.com

Apparent Excess Demand for Alkalinity

One of the most common complaints of new aquarists is that their aquaria seem to need more alkalinity than their balanced additive system, such as limewater or All for Reef, is supplying. While there are reasons this may actually be the case over the long term (these will be detailed later in this article), frequently these aquarists are seeing a "chemical mirage" rather than a real excess demand for alkalinity.

One of the interesting features of seawater is that it contains a lot more calcium than alkalinity. By this, I mean that if all of the calcium in seawater (420 ppm) were to be precipitated as calcium carbonate, it would consume 59 dKH of alkalinity (nearly 10 times as much as is present in natural seawater). In a less drastic scenario, let's say that calcium carbonate is formed from aquarium water starting with an alkalinity of 8.4 dKH that it is allowed to drop to 5.6 dKH (a 33% drop). How much has the calcium declined? It is a surprise to many people to learn that the calcium would drop by only 20 ppm (5%). Consequently, many aquarists observe that their calcium levels are relatively stable (within their ability to reproducibly test it), but alkalinity can vary up and down substantially. This is exactly what would be expected, given that the aquarium already has such a large reservoir of calcium.

Therefore, the first "deviation" from the rule of calcium and alkalinity balance really isn't a deviation at all. If an aquarist is supplying a balanced additive to his aquarium, and calcium seems stable but alkalinity is declining, it may very well be that what is needed is more of the balanced additive, not just alkalinity. This scenario should be assumed as the most likely explanation for most aquarists who should look for more esoteric explanations for alkalinity decline only if calcium RISES substantially while alkalinity falls. Likewise, if alkalinity is rising and calcium seems stable when using a balanced calcium and alkalinity additive system, the most likely explanation is that too much of the additive system is being used.

The real imbalance effects described later in this article take effect slowly, and are manifested over weeks, months and years. This short term "chemical mirage" caused simply by the mathematics of calcium and alkalinity additions can be seen in a single addition. Any effect that develops rapidly over the course of a few days is almost certainly not a true demand imbalance.The following scenarios show what can happen to a reef aquarium whose dosage with a balanced additive system does not match its demand.

Table 1 shows what can happen when the dosing is inadequate. Alkalinity drops fairly rapidly. After one day, many aquarists might conclude that they need additional alkalinity, when in reality, they need more of both calcium and alkalinity to stabilize the system.

This really does explain a lot and I know it can be a balancing act it’s made me think in a more enlightened way now as I shift to co time to balance my system

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

This really does explain a lot and I know it can be a balancing act it’s made me think in a more enlightened way now as I shift to co time to balance my system

I'm glad you found it useful.

 

[Outlaw Corals]

Yeah I seen a few people say that it takes a lot of mag to raise it

That growth rate you had after sounds great, I'd love to have that as my growth rate isn't incredible. It's my first reef tank so I am still learning, but it seems like a lot of people have lots of LPS sucess with elevated mag, and I do have mostly LPS so I'm going to buy a suplement and do that

Which magnesium suplement did you use?

Thanks

I use the Brightwell

 

[Brad Coughlan]

I use the Brightwell

I picked up aquaforest, and raised it up to the 1400ppm area, would have got brightwell but lfs didnt have it in stock

My new torch frag is already splitting and I have only had it for just under a month, not sure if ots to do with mag, but corals are looking good

 

[Outlaw Corals]

I picked up aquaforest, and raised it up to the 1400ppm area, would have got brightwell but lfs didnt have it in stock

My new torch frag is already splitting and I have only had it for just under a month, not sure if ots to do with mag, but corals are looking good

Aquaforest is good to, that’s awesome it’s splitting already I wouldn’t be surprised if it was from the magnesium, just slowly raise it to 1500 now

 

[Brad Coughlan]

Aquaforest is good to, that’s awesome it’s splitting already I wouldn’t be surprised if it was from the magnesium, just slowly raise it to 1500 now

Yeah, seem that LPS in particular benefits from higher magnesium

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FWIW, 1500 ppm magnesium seems a very high target to me (natural seawater at 35 ppt is 1280 ppm). Watch for snail lethargy which seems to be reported as folks push magnesium higher.

 

[Brad Coughlan]

FWIW, 1500 ppm magnesium seems a very high target to me (natural seawater at 35 ppt is 1280 ppm). Watch for snail lethargy which seems to be reported as folks push magnesium higher.

For sure, seen a few posts about that