ALK DROPPING BY THE HOUR!!!

[Adamc13o3]

@Randy Holmes-Farley My latest tank is running for 7 months now. I have always struggled with keeping PH up. It would dip into the 7.73 range at times. I attributed it to high CO2 levels in the room. I am pulling fresh air into my skimmer from the outdoors and scrubbing it as well. I recently installed an air exchanger unit. The unit showed the CO2 levels at 900 and change. It took a few days to get it to anywhere from 400 to a max of 450. Even though the CO2 levels decreased there wasnt an increase in PH.

Now to get to the ALK issue. I was dosing 50 ML of AFR and anywhere from 300 to 550 ML of Kalk. I decided to take the AFR offline this past weekend. I immedietely noticed much higher PH levels. They may even be too high now as they have reached 8.9! I did also increase my kalk to 4,000 ML per day as I saw my KH dropping significantly. To be clear though my ph was rising just by stopping the AFR, it isnt just the kalk, it rose before the walk increase. The issue that I am having now is that my alk is dropping too quickly and I cannot increase the kalk dosage as the PH levels rise too much. The tank isn't that stocked and I suspect precipitation, however I cannot find it anywhere. I tested last night and I was at 7.7 this morning 6.6 (thats with 2,000 ml of kalk being dosed overnight. My calcium level is at 525 and my mag is at 1,125.


Other changes that have happened for more context. 2 weeks ago I added sachem reef advantage magnesium to my ATO water to increase the magnesium a little. My PO4 was extremely high due to testing errors and me manually dosing, it was at .90 4 weeks ago. It is now at .06 and my nitrates are at 32 (thinking of dosing some vodka or maybe running a sulfur reactor). I brought down the PO4 by stopping the dosing and adding an algae reactor in an addition to my refugium. Has there been any report of AFR causing PH to be extremely low? How can I stop the precipitation? I am mixing up 30 gallons off saltwater now (aqua forest which mixes at 8.4 to 8.5 KH) to do a 30% water change in an effort to raise KH a little and bring down the NO3, plus a water change doesn't really hurt. I normally do an AWC of a gallon a day. My testing is being done with a Trident and Hanna checkers. In addition ICPO results from about 3 weeks ago showed matched my testing. The KH issues have just been in the last 48 hours so no ICP on those. I know that I can use 2 part instead of talk, but it will probably precipitate as well.


Thanks,

Adam

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What size aquarium are we talking about?

 

[Adamc13o3]

100 gallons of water volume. About 135 empty.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The 50 mL if AFR is adding less than 1 dKH of alk.

4 L of saturated kalkwasser adds another 1.2 dKH

Together, those do not seem to add up to excessive alk, and precipitation may not be an issue.

I’d just try boosting alk more with more AFR or a two part.

 

[Adamc13o3]

Thanks for the reply.

My testing before and after lights on would show that the tank was consuming anywhere from .40 to .55 of ALK when I was dosing 50 ML a day of AFR and like 400ml of Kalk. Could my consumption have gone up so drastically? Maybe the PH boost increased consumption? Are there reports of AFR causing low PH?

Thanks again,

Adam

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, a pH boost raises demand.

How are you making the kalkwasser?

 

[Adamc13o3]

I make a 32G brute trash can and then have a doser pull from there. I usually just dump a 2 pound container of Kalk in there which is too much for 32 gallons, but I keep a PH probe in there and usually refill the jug a few times until I see the Kalk PH go downs Does temp affect the Kalk? Asking because I keep it outdoors and I live in Florida. The Kalk can hit 90 degrees easy these days. My ATO water does as well but the increments are very small so that was never an issue.

 

[acro.jordan]

@Randy Holmes-Farley My latest tank is running for 7 months now. I have always struggled with keeping PH up. It would dip into the 7.73 range at times. I attributed it to high CO2 levels in the room. I am pulling fresh air into my skimmer from the outdoors and scrubbing it as well. I recently installed an air exchanger unit. The unit showed the CO2 levels at 900 and change. It took a few days to get it to anywhere from 400 to a max of 450. Even though the CO2 levels decreased there wasnt an increase in PH.

Now to get to the ALK issue. I was dosing 50 ML of AFR and anywhere from 300 to 550 ML of Kalk. I decided to take the AFR offline this past weekend. I immedietely noticed much higher PH levels. They may even be too high now as they have reached 8.9! I did also increase my kalk to 4,000 ML per day as I saw my KH dropping significantly. To be clear though my ph was rising just by stopping the AFR, it isnt just the kalk, it rose before the walk increase. The issue that I am having now is that my alk is dropping too quickly and I cannot increase the kalk dosage as the PH levels rise too much. The tank isn't that stocked and I suspect precipitation, however I cannot find it anywhere. I tested last night and I was at 7.7 this morning 6.6 (thats with 2,000 ml of kalk being dosed overnight. My calcium level is at 525 and my mag is at 1,125.


Other changes that have happened for more context. 2 weeks ago I added sachem reef advantage magnesium to my ATO water to increase the magnesium a little. My PO4 was extremely high due to testing errors and me manually dosing, it was at .90 4 weeks ago. It is now at .06 and my nitrates are at 32 (thinking of dosing some vodka or maybe running a sulfur reactor). I brought down the PO4 by stopping the dosing and adding an algae reactor in an addition to my refugium. Has there been any report of AFR causing PH to be extremely low? How can I stop the precipitation? I am mixing up 30 gallons off saltwater now (aqua forest which mixes at 8.4 to 8.5 KH) to do a 30% water change in an effort to raise KH a little and bring down the NO3, plus a water change doesn't really hurt. I normally do an AWC of a gallon a day. My testing is being done with a Trident and Hanna checkers. In addition ICPO results from about 3 weeks ago showed matched my testing. The KH issues have just been in the last 48 hours so no ICP on those. I know that I can use 2 part instead of talk, but it will probably precipitate as well.


Thanks,

Adam

Up your doser..

 

[anizato]

The solubility of calcium hydroxide in water decreases as the temperature increases. This means that at higher temperatures, less calcium hydroxide will dissolve in the water, potentially leading to precipitation.

At temperatures around 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius), you might notice more calcium carbonate precipitate forming at the bottom of your container. This is because the solution becomes less able to hold dissolved calcium hydroxide as the temperature rises. Does this happen to you? The main concern is the potential for reduced effectiveness of the solution due to precipitation.

When you initially mix a 2-pound container of Kalk in 32 gallons of water, you are likely creating a supersaturated solution. As you refill and use the solution, maintaining a stable pH around 12.4 (saturated Kalkwasser) indicates that there is still enough dissolved calcium hydroxide.

Try having the container in a shaded area or a place where it won't get too hot to avoid any problems from high temperatures. If you can't move it indoors, try insulating the Brute trash can with some insulation padding, maybe get a tarp as well?

Alternatively, try mixing when it's cool.. is it ever cool?? LOL like at night or in the early morning?

Hope some of this blabbering helps

 

[Adamc13o3]

Up your doser..

More Kalk? What’s a typical dose on a 100g tank? I would think 4,000 ML should be more than enough for a heavily stocked tank. I can’t go higher my PH get close to 9.

 

[SliceGolfer]

Do you have a sand bed? Check to see if it is hardening.

 

[Adamc13o3]

The solubility of calcium hydroxide in water decreases as the temperature increases. This means that at higher temperatures, less calcium hydroxide will dissolve in the water, potentially leading to precipitation.

At temperatures around 90 degrees Fahrenheit (32 degrees Celsius), you might notice more calcium carbonate precipitate forming at the bottom of your container. This is because the solution becomes less able to hold dissolved calcium hydroxide as the temperature rises. Does this happen to you? The main concern is the potential for reduced effectiveness of the solution due to precipitation.

When you initially mix a 2-pound container of Kalk in 32 gallons of water, you are likely creating a supersaturated solution. As you refill and use the solution, maintaining a stable pH around 12.4 (saturated Kalkwasser) indicates that there is still enough dissolved calcium hydroxide.

Try having the container in a shaded area or a place where it won't get too hot to avoid any problems from high temperatures. If you can't move it indoors, try insulating the Brute trash can with some insulation padding, maybe get a tarp as well?

Alternatively, try mixing when it's cool.. is it ever cool?? LOL like at night or in the early morning?

Hope some of this blabbering helps

I live in Miami Beach. I won’t beat the heat unless I bring the container inside lol. I can’t do that or move it elsewhere. I just have to deal with it. See the pictures. One box has a brute with ATO water and another with Kalk in it. The Kalk is milky because I have a power head mix it for a hour a day and this is when it happens. The other box has mixed saltwater in it for daily AWC and then and empty can for when I do a regular water change. Also have my RODI outside and a few other things. I moved to Florida from NY. In NY I had a larger tank with all of this in my basement. I am a lot happier with everything outside. I can spill as much as I want ! And most of all my wife hasn’t said a word in the last 7 months since this entire system has been setup lol.

Adam

 

[Adamc13o3]

Do you have a sand bed? Check to see if it is hardening.

I do have a sand bed and it’s fine not hard or clumpy or anything.

 

[UMALUM]

I'd get that MAG up asap.

 

[anizato]

what about the probes? I mean alk dropping so quickly... it can't be, right? wouldn't there be a lot of die off, etc?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I make a 32G brute trash can and then have a doser pull from there. I usually just dump a 2 pound container of Kalk in there which is too much for 32 gallons, but I keep a PH probe in there and usually refill the jug a few times until I see the Kalk PH go downs Does temp affect the Kalk? Asking because I keep it outdoors and I live in Florida. The Kalk can hit 90 degrees easy these days. My ATO water does as well but the increments are very small so that was never an issue.

The hotter it is, the less soluble it is and so you get somewhat less dosed.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd get that MAG up asap.

I expect it is test error, but I agree if it was actually that low, raising it would be desirable.

 

[Adamc13o3]

The water change helped a lot, it ended up being right around 35%. Today's parameters are

Alk 7.9
Calcium 515
Mag 1,275
NO3 19.1
PO4 .09 (Fed reef roids 2 nights ago)

When I was getting the low all reading I dosed 30ML of AFR 2 nights ago and then again yesterday. It usually has a bout a 48 hour delayed reaction in my tank which is why I think my ALK is starting to go back up. The nitrate numbers are a tad higher than where I like them but I dont think that I will do anything about it. May another larger WC in a week, but not adding any equipment carbon dosing yet. I really hope to see them stay where they are and not increase. If they stay then I'll do a WC and then just keep them at bay. Thanks @Randy Holmes-Farley


Adam

 

[Gribbles]

Yes, a pH boost raises demand.

How are you making the kalkwasser?

I want to make sure I understand.

Kalkwasser is just limewater, which is saturated calcium hydroxide yes? Dosing it will add alk to the system and also temporarily increase the pH. That increased pH is quite beneficial to coral growth, therefore spurring them to consume more alk in the process.

Surely, though, this process results in a net increase in alk, right?

 

[Adamc13o3]

I know that. It's just that I was dosing a lot more kalk than I ever have and my ALK was actually dropping in addition to the tank not being too heavily stocked so I was assuming that the kalk was precipitating. I think the answer is that the 50ml of AFR that I stopped dosing was adding a lot more all than I thought it was. My plan moving forward is to adjust the kalk to less than 4,000 ml a day which I am currently at and at the same time go back to AFR with a smaller dosage. I would love to just do one and not the other, but with AFR alone my PH really struggles and with KALK I am not meeting consumption (which to me is the most puzzling). I have seen very heavily stocked SPS tanks running on just Kalk.