Algae/Ugly phase as part of cycle?

[brandon429]

New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Hello All, Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows: But the API result seems to be showing a different story. I`ve seen a...

www.reef2reef.com

takeaways

see his early cycle info.

he owns a stocked/cycled nano, it also benchmarks on the seneye at .04~

the new dry rock setup with ammonia loading and bottle bac ran .04~ on day one, like I've said.

that was his reading for the initial cycle from the start, because fritz bac/any other bac per Dr. Reef's thread/handles initial bioloading on day one. there isn't a 30 day ramp up for ammonia control, that's old cycling science


look at his api readings in first post, they're dark green. that's anyone's subjective 5 ppm + panic post, my cycle is stalled post and you have it right there benchmarked on a seneye as not harmful

 

[Garf]

New Cycle - Seneye vs API

Hello All, Have just started to cycle a new DD ReefPro 900. Am using Fritzzyme Fishless food and Turbo Start and am 2 days in. I have dosed twice with Fishless food on the back of the seneye readings which are as follows: But the API result seems to be showing a different story. I`ve seen a...

www.reef2reef.com

takeaways

see his early cycle info.

he owns a stocked/cycled nano, it also benchmarks on the seneye at .04~

the new dry rock setup with ammonia loading and bottle bac ran .04~ on day one, like I've said.

that was his reading for the initial cycle from the start, because fritz bac/any other bac per Dr. Reef's thread/handles initial bioloading on day one. there isn't a 30 day ramp up for ammonia control, that's old cycling science


look at his api readings in first post, they're dark green. that's anyone's subjective 5 ppm + panic post, my cycle is stalled post and you have it right there benchmarked on a seneye as not harmful

I hope someone reads the link you’ve made, no mystery here and API matches the seneye when you take into account the low pH. Hence not cycled and safe due only to low pH, which in itself may not be good for livestock. Increasing the pH at this time could be a different kettle of fish.

 

[AgentKooper]

This thread has gone off track from what I’d intended. I’m not interested in debating “new cycling science” or quarantine strategy. I accept that ammonia control can usually be achieved fairly quickly and easily, and that disease awareness is important.

I would like to focus on what other (and difficult to measure) changes might still be going on in the tank after the initial ammonia cycle before the addition of livestock.

My original question still stands: Even after ammonia control is established, is there a benefit to delay stocking until after the initial diatoms and cyano run their course, per the instructions in the Reef2Reef cycling guide?

Seems to me that the fewer changes going on in the tank, the better, so maybe some additional stability is achieved after the initial algae bloom is over?

 

[Garf]

This thread has gone off track from what I’d intended. I’m not interested in debating “new cycling science” or quarantine strategy. I accept that ammonia control can usually be achieved fairly quickly and easily, and that disease awareness is important.

I would like to focus on what other (and difficult to measure) changes might still be going on in the tank after the initial ammonia cycle before the addition of livestock.

My original question still stands: Even after ammonia control is established, is there a benefit to delay stocking until after the initial diatoms and cyano run their course, per the instructions in the Reef2Reef cycling guide?

Seems to me that the fewer changes going on in the tank, the better, so maybe some additional stability is achieved after the initial algae bloom is over?

I ran mine longer than normal with multiple bacterial sources, as many as I could lay my hands on in fact and ghost fed. I cycled my main tank before setting up the quarantine, then quarantined the fish, explaining the extended period between start up and plopping a fish in. Still ended up with crap loads of algae everywhere once the lights were ramped up. The key is to deal with it with algae munchers before it gets out of control, perhaps backing off on the lights and making them blue, not controlling Nitrate and phos, outside a chosen maintenance schedule. Another way, is to jam pack the lit surfaces with coral, but that could end up being a very expensive method with new folks, especially. It’s normal for a dry rock start up to be very ugly for a while. I’ve done live rock before, that’s a piece of cake compared to dry rock.

 

[elm03]

Hi all, I'm a new member here and currently cycling a Fluval Evo 13.5 gallon. Most of the cycling advice I've read suggests that the tank is cycled when your tank can process 2 ppm ammonia in 24 hours with no measurable ammonia or nitrites. After that, it's suggested, the tank is ready for a fish or two.

But here and there (including in reef2reef's Supreme Guide to Setting Up a Saltwater Aquarium pinned to the top of this forum) I've seen the recommendation to wait until your tank goes through the diatom/cyano/green algae phase before adding any fish.

Is it in fact preferable to let the ugly phase run its course before adding any fish? And if so, do you continue to add ammonia to feed the nitrifying bacterial? Do you do water changes? Or just leave the tank alone completely?

By way of background, I have gone through the ugly stage with a previous tank in which I added fish right after the ammonia-nitrite cycle was complete. The tank didn't succeed, probably for a variety of reasons related to my inexperience. I'm trying to be more methodical and patient this time around to maximize chances of success. If that means letting diatoms/cyano/algae run their course before adding fish, that's fine with me.

I'm sure this has been covered in other threads, but I searched and couldn't find the question framed this way.

I have the same tank that I’m cycling for the first time….There’s an ugly phase?!?! Lol

 

[HomebroodExotics]

I started this tank with a bottle of doctor Tim’s. Technically I could add a fish right after, right?but this pic is from 2 weeks later. Do you really want a fish living in this?

If you use enough live rock/coral you can avoid this but you better have enough or it will all just crash and recycle anyway if ammonia gets too high. Just have to be patient sometimes.

 

[brandon429]

its ok to stock corals but plan to be fighting uglies alongside them

**the brs method of delaying four months was popular, but then again there wasn't light + bioload in place to test the system and it's keepers method. it was only to build up some microbial support and suppression for the system which is good.

one of the best things you can do is add real live rock cured from another tank, it helps across the board

if not/must remain dry rock/ then yes you can reef when you're ready and there's not much avoiding uglies work until coralline takes over.

I recommend specifically handling it via manual preps and not testing for, nor reacting to, phosphate and nitrate for six months

and when you begin testing and responding to p04 and no3, have it done on digital kits like hanna ones, not the non-digital color compare chart kits.

manual controls cannot cause you dinos invasions, messing with chemistry guessing from any nondigital test kit sure is causing that for 300+ pages in the dinos help thread/legit offer to help.

 

[brandon429]

you don't need to manage po4 and no3 to have control over that tank's uglies, you'd do it through physical means such as no white spectrum, lower blues, lower intensity for several months vs what you want to wind up at/don't chase par

focus on spot feeding corals and water changes and physically removing growths off rocks for half a year as you mature the rock into coralline

like gardening

we have threads on that showing tight control over tank uglies, the keeper is the final responsibilty in that mode for the way the tank looks. they have to clean more often than an all-coralline, aged tank for example and they're willing.

if you want to see the common mode, using any test kit at all to measure no3 and p04 and how rough those dinos get by measuring and reacting to po4 and no3 too soon, with poor kits, thats any dinos thread you can search out. it's the scourge of reefing because the masses copy each other in ways that perpetuate an invasion, they wouldn't use what the few use.

don't view your reef like the old way: the rocks piled in just sit there underwater as you work solely through testing/guessing on params to starve things

that's the old way, it's what's wrecking tanks in the giant dinos thread in the nuisance algae forum. its what is involved in someone curing dinos, then getting cyano and gha for the next two years equally as bad/it's logged in the thread five hundred times over, that pattern the masses do

see your rock scape as modular/expected to be lifted up and scrubbed clean outside the tank. work around corals you have glued in place, be the grazer that's missing from your system, ensure it's not invaded. if you can pull and put back rocks at ease you're able to garden that system into compliance to make up for selecting all white rock

you wouldnt glue arches into place, that becomes an excuse of why you can't access rocks for direct guidance. the masses would glue their arch and stick to it even as the tank is on its final breath. you'd be amazed how much success is found in not doing what the reef masses do.

 

[AgentKooper]

I ran mine longer than normal with multiple bacterial sources, as many as I could lay my hands on in fact and ghost fed. I cycled my main tank before setting up the quarantine, then quarantined the fish, explaining the extended period between start up and plopping a fish in. Still ended up with crap loads of algae everywhere once the lights were ramped up. The key is to deal with it with algae munchers before it gets out of control, perhaps backing off on the lights and making them blue, not controlling Nitrate and phos, outside a chosen maintenance schedule. Another way, is to jam pack the lit surfaces with coral, but that could end up being a very expensive method with new folks, especially. It’s normal for a dry rock start up to be very ugly for a while. I’ve done live rock before, that’s a piece of cake compared to dry rock.

Thanks, yeah, I'm ready for whatever algae blooms are coming. Diatoms and green algae have already started. I've had my lights on during the day as I play with different schedules and intensity. I'm not really trying to avoid the uglies. It's actually interesting to just watch the changes starting to take place. I believe the tank is pretty much cycled as of today (20 days since I put water in), but I'm still getting some equipment set up, so it'll probably be another week or two before I put any livestock in. If the diatoms and algae keep multiplying, I'll add a couple snails at that point. If it doesn't seem like there's enough stuff growing to support snails, I'll do a couple fish.

 

[AgentKooper]

I started this tank with a bottle of doctor Tim’s. Technically I could add a fish right after, right?but this pic is from 2 weeks later. Do you really want a fish living in this?

Agreed -- I don't. Feels right to wait until things seem more stable. I went too fast with things in a failed tank 10 years ago, and I don't want to repeat mistakes. I'm in no hurry this time.

 

[HomebroodExotics]

Sounds like you are on the right track. Enjoy the process. If you do everything correctly you will never see the tank go threw this stage again so admire it while you can.

 

[AgentKooper]

I have the same tank that I’m cycling for the first time….There’s an ugly phase?!?! Lol

Good luck getting it set up! What kind of timeline do you intend for adding livestock, and what do you plan to put in?