Advice, opinion, suggestions on flow in wide/shallow cylinder SPS/Anemone tank build.

[Seancj]

Hello everyone.
Its finally time! I will be placing the order for my new tank on Monday. It will be a 60" diameter by 20" tall, rimless cylinder.
I'm excited about this build and would be grateful for advice, suggestions, and opinions of the flow options I'm considering.
The tank will be a Magnifica anemone biome with SPS scattered throughout, so very high and random flow is desired.

My priority is to have little to no visible plumbing, so, initial plan was closed loop, no powerheads. However, recent research, a new product, and cost have maybe changed my plan.
My first option is a closed loop through the bottom of the tank, hidden within the rockscape. I did this before on my 240 gallon cube tank back in the day. I have two designs I'd like to run by everyone.
Second option, which I just recently started considering is to install 2 large gyres, hidden behind the overflow. Cords would be routed down a dry pipe in the overflow, so mostly hidden from view.
Below are crude illustrations of the ideas. Green area indicates where the livestock/aquascaping will be. Aquascaping will be in the lower 1/3 of the tank with full open water above. No volcano style rockwork as seen in a lot of cylinder tanks.
Main viewing will be from the 'front' and 'side' opposite the overflow.
Plan A: closed loop with two, 2" drains, 8, 1" returns. Two DC pumps capable of wave or pulse options of appropriate GPH for 250 gallons, one for each closed loop, with returns alternated for improved random flow. Grey circle is the location of the overflow. Larger red and blue dots are the closed loop drains with corresponding colored dots as the returns.

Plan B: closed loop with one 2" drain, 4 1" returns. One DC wave/pulse option pump with more GPH than the two pump design of plan A. Maybe add educators to each return?

Plan C: I recently saw the new Maxspect Gyre XF330 clouds on BRS. I have the Icecap 4K gyres on my current tank and like them. Place two of the on the back side of the overflow box facing in opposite directions with their new design flow nozzles facing alternate directions as the red lines indicate. I'm thinking that the flow will bounce off of the circular wall of the cylinder and create an adequate random flow pattern.

Is Plan A too much? Is it over complicated for this size cylinder considering potential water flow dictated by the curvature? If the tank were square or rectangular, Plan A would be ideal in my opinion, but maybe overkill for a cylinder?
Is Plan B enough? One larger DC pump, 4 returns? Maybe 'T' off each return for a bit more variant of flow?
Is Plan C enough? Two XF330 clouds will be more than enough flow, relatively low profile, much simpler install option, fairly easy to maintain.....
Thanks everyone for any advice and input. Of course, I'm very open to other ideas, designs, equipment, ect...

 

[Seancj]

Other options or ideas that are more efficient and cost effective would be appreciated. I have the funds and ability to install all of the above, but I'm not above better design and cost savings that I can apply towards other equipment. Thanks again all!

 

[Mr_Knightley]

I like the Gyre idea personally, but the closed loop would also be really attractive. Perhaps a mix? Whatever you do, I would advise against the Maxpect gyres. They need at least bi-weekly maintenance to stay in operating state, I wish I had gotten Icecaps. All gyre-type pumps are high maintenance though lol
If it were my tank, I I would have the closed loops blowing in crossing paths across the tank like a ladder and the gyres blowing around the sides, with a couple nano power heads attached to the overflow itself blowing into the center. I would work the rockscape to be mostly disconnected from the ground so there's a 'canopy' of mags above a safe haven for shade loving LPS and cryptic fish.
On a side note, I'm blown away (no pun intended) by how much flow mags can take. I got my first one a week ago and it wandered around the rock for a few days, until I pointed the pumps directly at it. Now it's cemented in it's spot being blown flat to the rock lol

 

[Seancj]

I like the Gyre idea personally, but the closed loop would also be really attractive. Perhaps a mix? Whatever you do, I would advise against the Maxpect gyres. They need at least bi-weekly maintenance to stay in operating state, I wish I had gotten Icecaps. All gyre-type pumps are high maintenance though lol
If it were my tank, I I would have the closed loops blowing in crossing paths across the tank like a ladder and the gyres blowing around the sides, with a couple nano power heads attached to the overflow itself blowing into the center. I would work the rockscape to be mostly disconnected from the ground so there's a 'canopy' of mags above a safe haven for shade loving LPS and cryptic fish.
On a side note, I'm blown away (no pun intended) by how much flow mags can take. I got my first one a week ago and it wandered around the rock for a few days, until I pointed the pumps directly at it. Now it's cemented in it's spot being blown flat to the rock lol

Thanks for the reply! Great advice! I just read through the reviews of the Maxspect's on BRS and some on YouTube and they are not eliciting a lot of confidence. App issues, flow drops, and, as you mentioned, maintenance. I was intrigued by their ability to point in multiple directions and gph but that's not enough to compensate for their flaws. Plan C is still very much a "plan C".
I always try to keep my rockscape off of the bottom as much as possible to allow for underflow current for detritus removal and places for fish and shrimp to feel secure.
Yep, Mags want lots of flow. This video is the IceCap 4K's at 90% to 25% back and forth flow pattern.
Thanks again!

 

[Seancj]

Here's my old 240 cube with hidden closed loop. This one had two Sequence Darts, one hooked up to an Ocean Motions 8 way and the other to a 4 way. Miss this tank!

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

I like the idea of a closed loop form the bottom - We run our 3ft x 3x5 cube in the same way - except incepted of hidden pluming, we are running our 1in Random Flow Generators nozzles on stand pipes on the back of the tank - leaving the sides, and front, for 3-side viewing completely clear


here is what i think would work amazing in this size tank and be super clean.

In your case, give then size of the tank , you could run either the 1.25in RFG or the 1in - depending on the flow you can push to them. the drawing show the 1in RFG to scale in your 60in diameter tank.

The RFGs would be on stand pipes and sit about 10 to 12 in in height - about 1/2 the 20in height. The center could be higher then the tow left and rights

This would create a nice randomized gyred effect with high turbulence in the center-front of the system, and a strong undertow back towards the RFGs

 

[Seancj]

I like the idea of a closed loop form the bottom - We run our 3ft x 3x5 cube in the same way - except incepted of hidden pluming, we are running our 1in Random Flow Generators nozzles on stand pipes on the back of the tank - leaving the sides, and front, for 3-side viewing completely clear


here is what i think would work amazing in this size tank and be super clean.

In your case, give then size of the tank , you could run either the 1.25in RFG or the 1in - depending on the flow you can push to them. the drawing show the 1in RFG to scale in your 60in diameter tank.

The RFGs would be on stand pipes and sit about 10 to 12 in in height - about 1/2 the 20in height. The center could be higher then the tow left and rights

This would create a nice randomized gyred effect with high turbulence in the center-front of the system, and a strong undertow back towards the RFGs

Thank you for this idea and input! Very much appreciated! The stand pipe idea is one I hadn't thought of. My only concerns are the visibility of the nozzles and that the flow from the middle nozzle would be too much pointing directly at the anemones in the middle of the tank. Thoughts?

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Here's a reference image from when we where testing this out in our own office tank - thi sis form a few years ago right after are got it wet

I is a dual closed loop with a shared drain

Cube Build - 134-Gallon Cube Build - Random Flow Generator® Powered Mixed Reef - Lots of Pics!

Why chose the L-shape sump and not have the return pump be submersed in a return chamber - making the sump traditional rectangle/square? two simple reasons come to mind - heat dissipation of the return pump to the room vs to the water (if overheating tank is something to worry about, any heat...

www.reef2reef.com

The solution has has worked great, and was very cost effective.

Since we used Cor 20s, they are controllable form our Apex, so we took advantage of that and create programming that alternates flow rates between the two loops over the course of a 12 hour and 28 minute cycle

What we ended dup with is a flow cycle that looks like this - crating a random gyre effect that slowly changes directions twice in a 24hr period, but advances a few minutes each day

 

[Mr_Knightley]

Thanks for the reply! Great advice! I just read through the reviews of the Maxspect's on BRS and some on YouTube and they are not eliciting a lot of confidence. App issues, flow drops, and, as you mentioned, maintenance. I was intrigued by their ability to point in multiple directions and gph but that's not enough to compensate for their flaws. Plan C is still very much a "plan C".
I always try to keep my rockscape off of the bottom as much as possible to allow for underflow current for detritus removal and places for fish and shrimp to feel secure.
Yep, Mags want lots of flow. This video is the IceCap 4K's at 90% to 25% back and forth flow pattern.
Thanks again!

I love that tank! I would love to try something like that someday.

I think your plans will be awesome. I would love to see the criss-cross flow pattern as opposed to a more random orientation, but it probably wouldn't make too much of a difference...

Very excited to see the build IRL! I'm sure seeing it in person will help make the final decision.

 

[Seancj]

I love that tank! I would love to try something like that someday.

I think your plans will be awesome. I would love to see the criss-cross flow pattern as opposed to a more random orientation, but it probably wouldn't make too much of a difference...

Very excited to see the build IRL! I'm sure seeing it in person will help make the final decision.

So instead of the closed loop returns alternating in the clockwork pattern as in Plan A, you would put one closed loop on the left 'hemisphere' and the other on the right facing directly right and left over the top of the aquascape in the middle?
Thanks again for the words of encouragement and compliment on the old 240!

 

[Mr_Knightley]

So instead of the closed loop returns alternating in the clockwork pattern as in Plan A, you would put one closed loop on the left 'hemisphere' and the other on the right facing directly right and left over the top of the aquascape in the middle?
Thanks again for the words of encouragement and compliment on the old 240!

Yeah that's what I mean. I'm babysitting my nieces right now, otherwise I'd put together a diagram for it..

 

[Seancj]

Got it! Thanks!

 

[Seancj]

Here's a reference image from when we where testing this out in our own office tank - thi sis form a few years ago right after are got it wet

I is a dual closed loop with a shared drain

Cube Build - 134-Gallon Cube Build - Random Flow Generator® Powered Mixed Reef - Lots of Pics!

Why chose the L-shape sump and not have the return pump be submersed in a return chamber - making the sump traditional rectangle/square? two simple reasons come to mind - heat dissipation of the return pump to the room vs to the water (if overheating tank is something to worry about, any heat...

www.reef2reef.com

The solution has has worked great, and was very cost effective.

Since we used Cor 20s, they are controllable form our Apex, so we took advantage of that and create programming that alternates flow rates between the two loops over the course of a 12 hour and 28 minute cycle

What we ended dup with is a flow cycle that looks like this - crating a random gyre effect that slowly changes directions twice in a 24hr period, but advances a few minutes each day

Thanks for the added details! I've just visited your website for the first time. Very impressive equipment you have fabricated! I've added your random flow generators as one of the options! Can you tell me the optimal GPH flow I should be pushing through 4 of the 1" size nozzles?

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Thank you for this idea and input! Very much appreciated! The stand pipe idea is one I hadn't thought of. My only concerns are the visibility of the nozzles and that the flow from the middle nozzle would be too much pointing directly at the anemones in the middle of the tank. Thoughts?

Because of the at the RFG works, would actually be quite effective - most names, like may coral ,like the stronger intermittent bursts of flow , as opposed to always on, laminar flow. in the layer I presented, i would personally run the center stand pipe much closer or higher up in the water Column

As for visibility - they would certainly be visible, but no more than a set of gyer pumps. Here is what this sort of setup currently looks like in our tank

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Thanks for the added details! I've just visited your website for the first time. Very impressive equipment you have fabricated! I've added your random flow generators as one of the options! Can you tell me the optimal GPH flow I should be pushing through 4 of the 1" size nozzles?

The "Suggested Optimal Flow" rating ( SOF for short) for a singe 1in RFG is 620-1000 GPH. At the upper end, you'll only get about 750 GPH through the nozzle, but the added pressure, makes them wave-maker like .

With that said, they actually perform quite well at 550-650 GPH. At the lower end of the SOF rating, you should expect to see a 10-15% throughput loss do to backpressure, which is about the same as a single 6-segemnt stick of 3/4in Loc-line

These ratings are based on flow at the nozzle outlet, after any headloss created by the plumbing. So calculate head height into your planning.


I forgot o add, regarding the stand pipe idea - as the coral grown into the flow, you can easily replace the pipes and right the RFG position. We did that recently in our 134-galloin cube

 

[Seancj]

Excellent! Thank you for the added details! I noticed that the 1" PVC version is out of stock on your website. When will they be available again? I'm really liking this idea!

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

Excellent! Thank you for the added details! I noticed that the 1" PVC version is out of stock on your website. When will they be available again? I'm really liking this idea!

That one has been discontinued an replaced with your new 1in Flex-Sereis Random Flow Generator® Nozzle

Flex Series 1in Random Flow Generator with 1in Modular Hose Fitting – RFGS100LL-FLX | Vivid Creative Aquatics

vividcreativeaquatics.com

You'll also find these at all the major online retailers, and possible at you local Fish Store

This version will work with both PVC, and our 1in Jumno 1in Modular hose system, hover, in your case, I would use it with just a slip-slip 90 deg elbow - the include 3035 series Multidapter will allow you to connect it directly to that sort of




here's what the included updater looks like, without the nozzle attached - super low profile fitting

here's what it would look like with the actual stand pipe and RFG

 

[Seancj]

As for visibility - they would certainly be visible, but no more than a set of gyer pumps.

Agreed! Plan C with the gyres is quickly becoming obsolete!

 

[Seancj]

Can anyone else offer some suggestions on whether or not the 8 way closed loop is necessary vs the 4 way in a cylinder?
Would it be more prudent to go with one pump with greater GPH and 4 returns vs two lesser GPH pumps with the 8 returns?

 

[Vivid Creative Aquatics]

...Would it be more prudent to go with one pump with greater GPH and 4 returns vs two lesser GPH pumps with the 8 returns?

Personally Would suggest the loops be broken up into at least two separate loops, so you have a bit a redundancy , should one of the pump fail or need serviced.