Advice needed after 20 year hiatus!

Tcatman

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I put away the hardware for my 75 gallon reef tank about 20 years ago. So, with a recent move, I rediscovered all of the equipment and I started looking at my current space for the next generation 75 gallon reef for soft and stony corals with a few fish. I have Lots of factors to consider before I move forward again. So I need some advice.

An afternoon browsing current practice starting with the intro pages on the forum was eye opening. I am looking for some advice for what to do with my dated equipment.

I have an ETSS 800 down draft protein skimmer with charcoal filtration for the air intakes and charcoal filtration on the waste container. The skimmer was run with an Iwaki pump. The skimmer was a beast, trouble free when running and is in very good condition. . I assume the pump is as well. It would seem that 2024 protein skimmer models get the same job done with a smaller pump. And a much smaller foot print. A key factor is the noise of the pump and the cost of electricity to run and cool. If I were to start up a new tank would you keep the skimmer or junk it? … I can’t imagine it has any value on the market

Second question… Back back back in the day, you mitigated phosporus and nitrogen loads with fewer fish and as big as you could afford /fit protein skimmer and monthly water changes of 10 percent. And you maintained essential rare elements with lots of kakwasser AND /or for the last year of the reef a calcium reacotor . How would you sum up todays best practice on filtration and rare mineral replacement. Do people use smaller skimmers these days? Looking for a big picture state of the art so that I can judge what to do going forward.

The previous reef tank had a plenum and then live sand was added over top of the plenum arrogonite. Plenum’s were out of favor at the end of this run and I assume they have not returned… How much live sand is the practice today or has that changed as well for effective waste management?


I have a Plexi commercially available sump of that era with a single chamber and a holder for a white cotton filtration bag. Today’s market looks like sumps are chambered and contain a space for a refugium as the prefered way to really drop nitrogen and phosphorous levels. It seems to me that I could modify the old sump with additional plexiglass by gluing some bulkhead baffles to manage the water fllow? What is the value of the old sump that has been plumbed for two external pumps with bulkheads.

Again… back back back in the day…. Refugiums were problematic because half the time your lighting choice simply grew algae in your sump and you had a real mess so you built stand alone refugiums and essentially ran an algae tank... I did not go there. . What changed? What should I do now?

I also have a calcium reactor, regulator etc and a good supply of koralith. I would imagine this is still the long term cost effective solution to maintaining minerals in a balanced manner. Are reactors still the way to go. what advantage does new hardware give you.... the chemistry and physics has not changed.


The problems /headaches that would hope to improve on were the noise of the overflow. I think I closed down the valve to the sump and raised the water level in the overflow… A power failure was a bit heart stopping when the sump would fill to capacity. What is the best way to manage water noise and pump noise? This tank would be in the family room so a much bigger issue.

Tank turnover was a big deal back then so you used a larged pump and split off several pipes to give you water movement and volume through the tank. What do people do now?

Lastly… the calcium reactor really promoted the growth of coraline algae and I wound up coating the sides and the back wall of the tank. The front was a real effort to keep clean. The Ca supplement stopped the hair algae iblooms. That I would fight a periodically. I also discovered that the live sand and plenum were really dirty… and not so much alive with critters as I might have imagined or wanted.

What is AWC..... (haven't gotten that deep into the brave new world yet!)

I know it is a long post... but any advice on any issue would be great.

Finally how much should I plan on spending to supplement my old stuff or am I basically starting from scratch
TIA
Mark.
 

Timfish

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Welcome back! Some things have changed tremendously, somethings haven't. :/ Our understanding of the microbial processes has certainly undergone a revolution and EVERYTHING as far as how ecosystems work, whether it's human health, sustaniable farming, or what helps corals survive are examples. Here's some items, but by no means consider it complete.

Technology has produced more effecient lights and pumps. All your stuff will work but new stuff "should" provide better performance with lower operating costs. But it's not necessarily more reliable and KISS is still the best overiding consideration IMO, along with redundancy.

You definitely want to use wild or maricultured live rock and live sand to start your system. We now know only a tiny fraction of the microbial stuff on reefs can be cultured and stuck in a bottle. Wild and maricultured live rock is the best source for microbial stuff and sponges. In theory both can be acquired with corals and stuff from mature systems but at the very least it will take much, much longer. And in my experience ther is a much higher chance of getting diseases or unwanted pests from other aquarists than there is from wild or maricultured live rock. Here's an article you may find informative:


Skimmers don't do so much and they've been shown to skew microbiomes in aquaria so my reccomendation is to toss your old one and don't bother replacing it. But there's still alot of dogma so you'll certainly hear how critical they are. Here's links if you want to read up on them (1) (2) (3) (4)

Phosphorus is a big difference from when you kept aquaria even though the research was equivical at best 2 decades ago. The dogma was to keep it as low as possible. In addition to research over the last 3 decades indicating some it's importance we now have research with corals maintained in aquaria that has identified a threashold level of .03 mg/l. With upwelling providing reefs with .3 mg/l and research shwoing corals also use particulate organic phsophorus and dissolved organic phosphorus since we can't test for either of those keeping PO4 between .03 mg/l and .3mg/l with a bit of a safety margin seems reasonable.

The microbial stuff is really fascinating, and complicated. Here's some links if you want to learn more about it. A lot of it revolves around Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC) and how it interacts with microbiomes You should know it is being marketed to aquarists as "carbon dosing". Research has shown excess DOC causes a range of problems with corals from chronic to acute to killing them. I would advise against using it ever. But you of course will find proponents. One last note so this doesn't get too long is do your water changes. There's lots of stuff we can't test for research has shown is bad for corals. The best and maybe the only way is to reduce them with water changes.

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas " This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC (carbon dosing) in reef ecosystems and how it can alter coral microbiomes. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems and are an excellent starting point to understand the conflicting roles of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC, aka "carbon dosing") in reef ecosystems.

Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes

Microbial view of Coral Decline

Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont

BActeria and Sponges

Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)

Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching

DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome

Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"
 
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Tcatman

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Great start! .... Thank you. article one is right up my alley. I have read the introduction so far... You jumped to the end/bottom line with... dump any and all protein skimmers.. I suspect I will find the data.. in your cites. I am guessing that a proper microbiome installed with live sand and live rock. (essential back in the day) are now thought to process the larger proteins before they are degraded to NH4 and co2 or worse methane... so a new to me concept "overskimming" was introduced in some of the threads. Is that where this process is going to take me? This will be fun! Again... back in the day.... all bad things were assigned to ... you have too many fish.... your problem is fish poop.... It seemed like a lot of detritus was captured in my sand bed . when I took it down. Thanks
Mark
 

danreef55

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Hey Tcatman,
If you want to sell the 800 I am interested. I ran this skimmer in a small commercial system and it was awesome.
I wish I could get in touch with Gary from AE Tech (out of biz) he is local and knowing him he has some skimmers stashed away. The Iwaki was a perfect match as well.

I am aslo diving back in after 10 years hiatus. Just waiting for some quotes on construction and electrical components. Can't wait to get back in the water.

Best of luck
 

BiggestE22

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I put away the hardware for my 75 gallon reef tank about 20 years ago. So, with a recent move, I rediscovered all of the equipment and I started looking at my current space for the next generation 75 gallon reef for soft and stony corals with a few fish. I have Lots of factors to consider before I move forward again. So I need some advice.

An afternoon browsing current practice starting with the intro pages on the forum was eye opening. I am looking for some advice for what to do with my dated equipment.

I have an ETSS 800 down draft protein skimmer with charcoal filtration for the air intakes and charcoal filtration on the waste container. The skimmer was run with an Iwaki pump. The skimmer was a beast, trouble free when running and is in very good condition. . I assume the pump is as well. It would seem that 2024 protein skimmer models get the same job done with a smaller pump. And a much smaller foot print. A key factor is the noise of the pump and the cost of electricity to run and cool. If I were to start up a new tank would you keep the skimmer or junk it? … I can’t imagine it has any value on the market

Second question… Back back back in the day, you mitigated phosporus and nitrogen loads with fewer fish and as big as you could afford /fit protein skimmer and monthly water changes of 10 percent. And you maintained essential rare elements with lots of kakwasser AND /or for the last year of the reef a calcium reacotor . How would you sum up todays best practice on filtration and rare mineral replacement. Do people use smaller skimmers these days? Looking for a big picture state of the art so that I can judge what to do going forward.

The previous reef tank had a plenum and then live sand was added over top of the plenum arrogonite. Plenum’s were out of favor at the end of this run and I assume they have not returned… How much live sand is the practice today or has that changed as well for effective waste management?


I have a Plexi commercially available sump of that era with a single chamber and a holder for a white cotton filtration bag. Today’s market looks like sumps are chambered and contain a space for a refugium as the prefered way to really drop nitrogen and phosphorous levels. It seems to me that I could modify the old sump with additional plexiglass by gluing some bulkhead baffles to manage the water fllow? What is the value of the old sump that has been plumbed for two external pumps with bulkheads.

Again… back back back in the day…. Refugiums were problematic because half the time your lighting choice simply grew algae in your sump and you had a real mess so you built stand alone refugiums and essentially ran an algae tank... I did not go there. . What changed? What should I do now?

I also have a calcium reactor, regulator etc and a good supply of koralith. I would imagine this is still the long term cost effective solution to maintaining minerals in a balanced manner. Are reactors still the way to go. what advantage does new hardware give you.... the chemistry and physics has not changed.


The problems /headaches that would hope to improve on were the noise of the overflow. I think I closed down the valve to the sump and raised the water level in the overflow… A power failure was a bit heart stopping when the sump would fill to capacity. What is the best way to manage water noise and pump noise? This tank would be in the family room so a much bigger issue.

Tank turnover was a big deal back then so you used a larged pump and split off several pipes to give you water movement and volume through the tank. What do people do now?

Lastly… the calcium reactor really promoted the growth of coraline algae and I wound up coating the sides and the back wall of the tank. The front was a real effort to keep clean. The Ca supplement stopped the hair algae iblooms. That I would fight a periodically. I also discovered that the live sand and plenum were really dirty… and not so much alive with critters as I might have imagined or wanted.

What is AWC..... (haven't gotten that deep into the brave new world yet!)

I know it is a long post... but any advice on any issue would be great.

Finally how much should I plan on spending to supplement my old stuff or am I basically starting from scratch
TIA
Mark.
Watch the entire BRS160 on YouTube.
 

BeanAnimal

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I am not disagreeing with @Timfish… but for me, wry little has changed. I never ran low nutrient even if I wanted to.

Your skimmer is a beast, but it works better than most of the modern lower power skimmers.

Lighting is the only real change as far as I am concerned and I still think MH are better in many aspects, but LEDs do a great job and offer far greater control.

We also have much better flow options now instead of 120v old school power heads.
 

HAVE YOU EVER KEPT A RARE/UNCOMMON FISH, CORAL, OR INVERT? SHOW IT OFF IN THE THREAD!

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