Adding sodium carbonate|bicarbonate to AFR for PH buffer

[Faulkner’s maze]

Hello Randy
Right now I dose AFR & the ALK|CA ratio is|was fine (I think 7.1 alk & 450 CA before trident broke) -however my PH is pretty suppressed at 7.9-8 due to carbon dosing -
In the short or long term are there any drawbacks to dosing sodium carbonate|bicarbonate-both the Red Sea foundation and TM balling solutions are a mix of both. By the calculators online a 20ml dose for a 64 gal tank should boost the DKH by about .8 but says nothing about PH per se. based on some research by BRS by using red foundation B to increase 1 DKH it raises the PH by .4. So I am assuming 3/4 of that dose will net me an approximate .3 increase.



I do have a CO2 scrubber already and hoping once I get the refugium back up to full speed I can eventually draw down the carbon dosing amount.


I do not want to contend with kalkwasser for a lot of reasons.

Just seeing if my math plays out and considerations I should be aware of besides the obvious increase in PH & alk.

Thank you for your time.

 

[ReefingDreams]

As long as you're fine with the alk increase that comes along with the PH boost, go for it. I'm sure you're not planning on mixing the additives to the AFR, but make sure to dose separately. There's a reason AFR isn't carb/bicarb based.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hello Randy
Right now I dose AFR & the ALK|CA ratio is|was fine (I think 7.1 alk & 450 CA before trident broke) -however my PH is pretty suppressed at 7.9-8 due to carbon dosing -
In the short or long term are there any drawbacks to dosing sodium carbonate|bicarbonate-both the Red Sea foundation and TM balling solutions are a mix of both. By the calculators online a 20ml dose for a 64 gal tank should boost the DKH by about .8 but says nothing about PH per se. based on some research by BRS by using red foundation B to increase 1 DKH it raises the PH by .4. So I am assuming 3/4 of that dose will net me an approximate .3 increase.



I do have a CO2 scrubber already and hoping once I get the refugium back up to full speed I can eventually draw down the carbon dosing amount.


I do not want to contend with kalkwasser for a lot of reasons.

Just seeing if my math plays out and considerations I should be aware of besides the obvious increase in PH & alk.

Thank you for your time.

Do not believe some of the overly simplistic things BRS does. Calculations are not very useful.

All methods have pros and cons. If done properly, I’m not sure I agree with your assertions about what is in those commercial products. Why do you think TM Balling has any carbonate in it?

Carbonate will cause an instantaneous boost of about 0.35 pH units when adding 1.4 dKH, but the effect drops fairly quickly as the tank pulls in CO2 and will be much smaller later that day.

If you space the dosing do that alk is not jumping up, then the effect is obviously smaller and if spread out completely over the day, the effect ends up being very small unless the doses are large.

Your pH is not that low, but if you want the biggest boost, sodium hydroxide will give the same as kalkwasser.

 

[Faulkner’s maze]

Do not believe some of the overly simplistic things BRS does. Calculations are not very useful.

All methods have pros and cons. If done properly, I’m not sure I agree with your assertions about what is in those commercial products. Why do you think TM Balling has any carbonate in it?

Carbonate will cause an instantaneous boost of about 0.35 pH units when adding 1.4 dKH, but the effect drops fairly quickly as the tank pulls in CO2 and will be much smaller later that day.

If you space the dosing do that alk is not jumping up, then the effect is obviously smaller and if spread out completely over the day, the effect ends up being very small unless the doses are large.

Your pH is not that low, but if you want the biggest boost, sodium hydroxide will give the same as kalkwasser.

Thanks- didn’t realized you had responded.
As to TM-Ithe ingredients on balling B is a combination of carbonate and bicarbonate-I have an unused box at home.

So the BRS calculator was right in terms of the initial PH boost -but to your point it did hit the law of diminishing returns really fast and by day 2 and 3 no real change in PH.

Although the PH is not that low-I do see much better coral growth when it was up at 8.3. So if I can push it up a bit -be happy-me and the corals.

CO2 media only gets so far.

Thinking I am going the kalk route by way of doser (no ATO and/or drop method)

Any guidance on a good start for kalk? I believe 2 teaspoon per gallon but start with dosing how much ? 500 ml? 1/2 gallon? Thank you.

 

[Reef Puncher]

Thanks- didn’t realized you had responded.
As to TM-Ithe ingredients on balling B is a combination of carbonate and bicarbonate-I have an unused box at home.

So the BRS calculator was right in terms of the initial PH boost -but to your point it did hit the law of diminishing returns really fast and by day 2 and 3 no real change in PH.

Although the PH is not that low-I do see much better coral growth when it was up at 8.3. So if I can push it up a bit -be happy-me and the corals.

CO2 media only gets so far.

Thinking I am going the kalk route by way of doser (no ATO and/or drop method)

Any guidance on a good start for kalk? I believe 2 teaspoon per gallon but start with dosing how much ? 500 ml? 1/2 gallon? Thank you.

i had same issue. here is what i did to fix it.

I am still dosing AFR during day on an auto doser. I like the product. its very concentrated and lasts forever if you buy the powder form, so its cheap. and between the AFR and bi weekly small water changes i dont have to worry about trace elements.

but.
my ph was too low, usually sat around 7.9 to 8.1 I bought a co2 scrubber for my skimmer which bumped me to about 8.25 during the day which was great, but at night i was low, still around 7.9 to 8.0

now, At night i dose kalkwasser on an auto doser and, it keeps the ph up at night and avoids the swings. so now i am at about 8.28 during day and at night about 8.15 to 8.2. its really made a difference and im happy with it so far.

 

[Faulkner’s maze]

i had same issue. here is what i did to fix it.

I am still dosing AFR during day on an auto doser. I like the product. its very concentrated and lasts forever if you buy the powder form, so its cheap. and between the AFR and bi weekly small water changes i dont have to worry about trace elements.

but.
my ph was too low, usually sat around 7.9 to 8.1 I bought a co2 scrubber for my skimmer which bumped me to about 8.25 during the day which was great, but at night i was low, still around 7.9 to 8.0

now, At night i dose kalkwasser on an auto doser and, it keeps the ph up at night and avoids the swings. so now i am at about 8.28 during day and at night about 8.15 to 8.2. its really made a difference and im happy with it so far.

Hope to be set up soon on kalk and get it going. This info really helps-thank you.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am still dosing AFR during day on an auto doser. I like the product. its very concentrated and lasts forever if you buy the powder form, so its cheap.

Just an FYI, I would not say it is "cheap", although for a small tank the cost is not prohibitive. Even the powder form is more expensive per unit of alk and calcium than many alternatives.