Absolutely insanely abysmal documentation - Vortech & Mobius

[Devisissy]

Hey Ecotech (Bertram or whoever actually pulls the strings) I am honestly stunned. The vortech pumps hit the market in 2005. I never owned one until 2 days ago when I purchased two second hand current generation MP10s.

Sure tossing them in the water and making them spin is easy enough but the "user manual" that comes with them and the online PDF are almost useless for anything more than an overview of the functionality and even at that are pretty thin. One has to go search videos that are honestly almost as vague and useless and don't really cover most of the "advanced" functions.

Then comes Mobius - sure it is easy enough to get the app to recognize the MP10s, but where is the user manual that actually explains scheduling or for that matter why does it not come with the Vortech itself? I mean it the model number has "M" for Mobius in the name and you have ensured that Mobius or your controller are the only means of control. Why are there not detailed Mobius instructions with the pumps???? Why are the lazy half-done videos not even linked properly to your PDFs?? Where is the documentation that explains the actual interface, the GPH nomenclature on the main dashboard vs that in the drill down, etc.?

What does the the percentage in child anti-sync mode or for that matter child sync mode mean and where is that explained? Is it the percentage of the pump itself or the parent. In anti-sync is it a percentage of the inverse, etc.?

Where is the explanation of the controllers LED colors when using Mobius? It appears that the dial on the child turns pulsing green with only 1 intensity LED illuminated and the parent, well the colors there don't match the "manually set" mode colors either. Where is any of this explained?

Maybe all if this is explained somewhere and I am just missing it, but that in and of itself would simply indicate that your documentation is extremely poorly organized. Why should a customer have to actually search so hard for basic information that should be in easy to find documentation? Why does one have to scour your online properties, reef forums and numerous YouTube videos for basic information that should be part of the standard documentation?

Sure, most of us are smart enough to figure it all out via trial and error, but you (honestly) should be ashamed at how poor the documentation is for an 18 year old product line.

In the scheme of things, a technical writer is not expensive.

My two cents... not that you care because it appears that over the course of 18 years you haven't bothered to write a real user guide.

I agree 100%. It's not a dedicated app. They are using a template and have redesigned it with their badging. That is the one of the issues.

 

[BeanAnimal]

The pumps seem OK mechanically, but the software is bug riddled, unadulterated trash. Alas, they don’t care and it is therefore no use complaining. I manually programmed each pump and moved on. Lesson learned and I will buy Nero’s or something else next time and Ecotech will not see another penny from me. I followed the Mobius rollout from afar and now see up close what all of the complaints were about.

 

[Mikeltee]

Nero are garbage comparatively speaking. You need to control them off your Apex.

 

[Devisissy]

The pumps seem OK mechanically, but the software is bug riddled, unadulterated trash. Alas, they don’t care and it is therefore no use complaining. I manually programmed each pump and moved on. Lesson learned and I will buy Nero’s or something else next time and Ecotech will not see another penny from me. I followed the Mobius rollout from afar and now see up close what all of the complaints were about.

Yeah I'm so done after the "support" I got from them this morning. They don't even know how to help people with mobius.

 

[Mikeltee]

Yeah I'm so done after the "support" I got from them this morning. They don't even know how to help people with mobius.

They are not a software company. They are electrical And mechanical engineers. They build reliable hardware that rarely has mechanical issues. My Apex and MP40s are from 2010 and I've never had an issue. I bought my 3x Hydra 52s for $200 a piece and my 3x Hydra 26s for $150 a piece. I've had trouble with a 26 and a 52. They were out of warranty for over 5 years and they were fixed for free. The last time I had an issue with a Hydra 52 they didn't have the parts and offered me 60% off of a Hydra 64. It took me 2 weeks to get someone on the phone and 3 weeks for them to look at it. I have spare 52s and 26s.

One is a fool to buy anything but used AI.

 

[Mikeltee]

The pumps seem OK mechanically, but the software is bug riddled, unadulterated trash. Alas, they don’t care and it is therefore no use complaining. I manually programmed each pump and moved on. Lesson learned and I will buy Nero’s or something else next time and Ecotech will not see another penny from me. I followed the Mobius rollout from afar and now see up close what all of the complaints were about.

If you don't have an Apex do a WTB and get a Classic with eb8, controller and display for $150... ive run this program for 14 years.

 

[KC2020]

I worked for a couple of very well know software companies and documentation was always the biggest expense. So I'm not surprised when products in this hobby are lacking in that area.

I always thought that was what was so cool about forums like this one, the friendly help.

I've had MP10s and MP40s for years and they're great. And yes, an Apex does make it much easier to make sense of what they're doing.

 

[Mikeltee]

I worked for a couple of very well know software companies and documentation was always the biggest expense. So I'm not surprised when products in this hobby are lacking in that area.

I always thought that was what was so cool about forums like this one, the friendly help.

I've had MP10s and MP40s for years and they're great. And yes, an Apex does make it much easier to make sense of what they're doing.

I'm an automation engineer in pharma. 95% of my job is documentation. I need to write 6 procedures and have 14 directors sign off on it to take a dump! I'll be the first to admit that Ecotech severely lacks in the documentation department. Once you figure it out, it's rock solid. Here's a tip... mp40s don't like to lose power. You usually need to reset them. Get the battery backup. Mine is 10 years old with OG battery. I don't lose power for more than a few seconds only a few times a year.

Feel free to reach out to me with any programming or stability issues. It won't take 3 weeks to get ahold of me like Ecotech. If Ecotech makes it and I need it, that's what I am buying... used!

 

[BeanAnimal]

They are not a software company. They are electrical And mechanical engineers. They build reliable hardware that rarely has mechanical issues.

Let me help you

They are not a software company. They are electrical And mechanical engineers. owned by an investment firm that outsources most of what they do.

There all fixed.

My Apex and MP40s are from 2010 and I've never had an issue.

I think you may find that the earlier equipment was both better designed and was higher quality craftsmanship and materials. I could be wrong.

I have not had these apart - but am going to assume that most failures are due to excessive wear that results from misaligned wet and dry sides putting rather significant lateral and off axis forces on the shafts and bearings. I don't know of there is a self alignment mechanism, but playing with them, it does not feel like there is.

 

[Mikeltee]

lol. We would get along so well at a bar...

You are probably right about going from pride in craftsmanship to making money. Everything of mine is at least 8 years old aside from some nero5s that I picked up for pennies. Not a fan... I did recently grab a Jebao Gyre and I am thoroughly impressed! It's set as low as it will go and one is all I need for a 36". $110 and it was on my doorstep the next day.

 

[buruskeee]

100% is 100% of the parent so if your parent is 40%, your child is 40% when set to 100%.

Is this confirmed? I feel like when I have the child set to 100%, it peaks at a higher GPH than the parent.

 

[Mikeltee]

Is this confirmed? I feel like when I have the child set to 100%, it peaks at a higher GPH than the parent.

Confirmed on my system using an Apex as a controller. The wetsides do go bad after about 5 years. Pull them out and make sure that they spin relatively equally using your index finger. The ceramic rod seems to bend on them. You can also swap wetsides as well and see how it behaves.

 

[buruskeee]

Confirmed on my system using an Apex as a controller. The wetsides do go bad after about 5 years. Pull them out and make sure that they spin relatively equally using your index finger. The ceramic rod seems to bend on them. You can also swap wetsides as well and see how it behaves.

I have 3 fairly new MP40. It's not a measured assumption, It just feels like when I glance at the Mobius app, I see the child going as fast peak GPH as the parent despite 80% on the child (with the parent set at 60%). I will feel much more comfortable setting the child to 100% if EcoTech has came out and said what you have said to be true.

 

[BeanAnimal]

lol. We would get along so well at a bar...

More than likely yes

You are probably right about going from pride in craftsmanship to making money. Everything of mine is at least 8 years old aside from some nero5s that I picked up for pennies.

I think the MP pumps are pretty cool. Sad to hear that the Neros are not so hot. If I had the time, I would put a scope on an MP and map the voltages to each pole and make my own controller. No such time.

I thought I wanted gyre stykle pumps at one point, but not sure that I do. Ideally if it is not the MP pumps, whatever it is needs to be GHL controllable. GHL sells their controllable sicce pumps... but my issue with ANY of them (including the MP10s and MP40s) is that they are ugly, some more than others.

 

[Mikeltee]

Agreed on the appearance. I was originally sold on the MP40s because the cord was outside of the tank, and since they mount on the back wall of my 130g, they were the cleanest install at the time. These gyres mount so high that my canopy can 100% hide them. The biggest complaints of the gyres are noise and how often they must be cleaned. I can't hear this Jebao at all at 30%. Ive tried an Icecap and it is ridiculously noisy even at 20%. Only time will tell on the cleaning aspect as I've only had it for a few weeks. From what I read, performance is hampered about 6 weeks in without thoroughly cleaning them. I went 6 years without cleaning the wetside of my MP40s. At that point, I replaced them. I now keep a spare and clean yearly.

I'm sure the community would be grateful if you could reverse engineer the wifi signal and program the Vortechs with a controller of choice. While I have no complaints on the MyAI software for the Hydras, especially considering that you can code in csv, I had nothing but issues with the app on the Neros. Mobius works fine with the Neros. I would need to reset the Neros EOD with MyAI.

I grabbed my Nero5s on here for $100 each and they were pretty much new. The biggest issue I have with the Neros are the limited programming and the need to wire tie them to the side of your tank because they will wobble out of place in pulse mode even on 30%. For $100, I won't complain.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I purchased a BLE sniffer and BLE ARM board to fiddle around with it. I grabbed a bunch of packets with wireshark, but got sidetracked.

Honestly, if i move forward, it may be using the scope to just sort out what signal is on each wire (it is either straight or pulsed voltage) that turns the pumps. Then build suitable speed controller and 0-10v interface instead of screwing around with their driver board and firmware. The programming is super buggy and it can't just be mobius. Mobius write the program to the MPs and they then run on that code, not fly by wire. They then talk to each other for sync, antisync, etc. I think it is all a mess since the new mobius boards.

 

[Devisissy]

I sell custom windows and 0% of my job is documentation. Guess what, NO ONE CARES.

This is the one reason why I really don't do much socializing online in this hobby, this forum is pretty much it. No one gives a rip what you do for a living or how much you make. It has no relevance on the topic at hand other than being uber cringe EVERYTIME you mention what you do. It reminds me of Little John when he got shift lead at Popeye's. He had to tell us anytime we disagreed with him about something, he was big leagues now. Shift lead! Or when the doctor told him he needed to cut back on the sodies or they were gunna cut off his foot. Nope, I'm shift lead I know EVERYTHING.

The price of this product is high enough to more than cover the costs of documenting how to use the f'n app. BECAUSE they already have the webspace, throw a QR code on there and put it all online.

I know they have reliable hardware that's why I bought the dang things, but no matter what you do for a living, doesn't change the fact directions are needed to use the app correctly. It should never fall on the consumer to do the work for the company. There was a paper published at Harvard about companies allowing customers dictate how the company should run, maybe we are guilty there, no one reads the directions why have them? But when I talked to them in person, it was obvious they really don't know the product.

You know, I found the information. From, get this. Brightwell aquatics you tube page. Brightwell showing consumers how to set up ecotechss mobius! Oh the hilarity.

 

[paintman]

I'm an automation engineer in pharma. 95% of my job is documentation. I need to write 6 procedures and have 14 directors sign off on it to take a dump! I'll be the first to admit that Ecotech severely lacks in the documentation department. Once you figure it out, it's rock solid. Here's a tip... mp40s don't like to lose power. You usually need to reset them. Get the battery backup. Mine is 10 years old with OG battery. I don't lose power for more than a few seconds only a few times a year.

Feel free to reach out to me with any programming or stability issues. It won't take 3 weeks to get ahold of me like Ecotech. If Ecotech makes it and I need it, that's what I am buying... used!

Sounds like you work for my wifes company Eli Lilly She goes through the same B.S.

 

[Mikeltee]

Sounds like you work for my wifes company Eli Lilly She goes through the same B.S.

Yup what building us she in? Is she QA?

 

[Devisissy]

Sounds like you work for my wifes company Eli Lilly She goes through the same B.S.

Does she tell everyone what she does for a living or...